Which SNES Emulators Currently Use Blargg's Sound Core?

Palin · Post by **Palin** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:52 pm

Been getting a strong urge to play Chrono Trigger and Secret of Mana these last few weeks, and I can't find the power cable for my trusty old SNES. Well, I've been following SNES emulator development on and off for the last five years and I know that Blargg's core is the only one that can correctly imitate Squaresoft's funny sound code. That leads to the question: is BSNES v0.28 the only release grade emulator that has Blargg's sound implemented?

I know as part of the core rewrite ZSNES is getting Blargg's sound, but I'm not even going to ask when that will be done.

Post by **Nach** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:55 pm

ZSNES was the first to use it (only in unstable SVN of course).
BSNES was the second.

BSNES is the only emulator with an official release to use it.

If anyone else uses it, we certainly don't know about it.

byuu · Post by **byuu** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:27 pm

ZSNES was the first to use it (only in unstable SVN of course).
BSNES was the second.

Sigh ... why even point this out? Does everything have to be a contest? It was the same thing with the S-DD1 about who got the code in first. And then it was about who had the latest cutting edge release of snes_ntsc, or who implemented it first. Who cares? All that matters is who has the sound core right now. And once ZSNES has it in the public release, it won't matter that bsnes had it in a public release longer, will it?

Neither ZSNES nor bsnes should be proud that we needed someone outside of our dev scene to create an accurate S-DSP emulator for us. Now, I'm 100% grateful to blargg for making it, and I can never thank him enough. I'm certainly glad he did it. I'm just saying that it's silly to brag about who added it first. We both failed miserably in emulating the chip properly ourselves, and neither of us did much work at all. We just added a couple hooks to interface his work with ours. In my case, blargg even wrote the hooks for me.

All credit belongs to blargg.

Magus` · Post by **Magus`** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:31 pm

I don't think giving a historical fact is bragging, per se.

I think you're reading into it a bit much, brah.

byuu · Post by **byuu** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:44 pm

Perhaps I am. It just seems like we're all always quick to point out who was first to add something to our internal codebases -- as if anyone cares about technicalities. It reeks of pride more than anything else.

And you know, I could see bragging about this if it were something you actually did yourself. Andreas Naive cracked the S-DD1, who cares if ZSNES, Snes9X or SNESGT was first to release it? blargg wrote the S-DSP emulator and the snes_ntsc filter. Same thing here.

If we want to get technical, I'm pretty sure what ZSNES added initially was a sample-based emulator. When blargg sent me his clock-based emulator, it was still incomplete at the time. But you know, I really don't care. It's the present that matters, not the past.

Now, to be fair, I do recall one time bragging about reaching 100% compatibility first. That of course wasn't meant as a jab to other emulators, but it was still pointless bragging.

Magus` · Post by **Magus`** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:15 am

Someone needs a kitten pile.

byuu · Post by **byuu** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:51 am

Awww.

You win this round. But "I'll get you next time, Magus` ... next time ...

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 2:23 am

*achoo*
Damn cat allergies.

*turns a couple of Domo-kuns loose*

Post by **Nach** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:40 am

byuu wrote:
ZSNES was the first to use it (only in unstable SVN of course).
BSNES was the second.
Sigh ... why even point this out? Does everything have to be a contest? It was the same thing with the S-DD1 about who got the code in first. And then it was about who had the latest cutting edge release of snes_ntsc, or who implemented it first. Who cares? All that matters is who has the sound core right now. And once ZSNES has it in the public release, it won't matter that bsnes had it in a public release longer, will it?

Nice failure to read.

Palin wrote: ZSNES is getting Blargg's sound

Because it's not true, it's "gotten", as in long time ago, as in before anyone else knew about it from elsewhere.

It has nothing to do with bragging, you're the one who just brought that up. It has everything to do with untrue sentences, which pedantic people can't stand to read.

And can't just say it has it either, because that would make it sound like, oh we added it last week, when that isn't true either, it's been there for a long time now, and I only clarified how long it's been there.

Magus` · Post by **Magus`** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:27 am

Play nice, buddies. I'll turn this forum around, I swear to god.

Panzer88 · Post by **Panzer88** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:18 am

ha ha, they aren't usually like this, just when the coffee runs out.

or are they?

blargg · Post by **blargg** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:44 am

byuu wrote:Neither ZSNES nor bsnes should be proud that we needed someone outside of our dev scene to create an accurate S-DSP emulator for us.

Who cares where it came from? It's mainly just a question of who has the information, ability, and time to write some component of the emulator. The more people able to do this, the better (especially if they can share their work freely and use it without guilt).

We both failed miserably in emulating the chip properly ourselves

I wouldn't call either of the emulations miserable. OpenSPC was quite good and accurate, and what inspired me to go the last mile (as with almost all my other emulation efforts, it was something really close that prompted me to bridge the gap to near perfection).

All credit belongs to blargg.

Only credit for the latest bit of a large collection of work by many (anomie, TRAC, Anti resonance, Brad Martin come to mind).

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:06 am

Panzer88 wrote:ha ha, they aren't usually like this, just when the coffee runs out.

or are they?

No one knows. We've never had any coffee to test.

byuu · Post by **byuu** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:22 pm

ha ha, they aren't usually like this, just when the coffee runs out.

or are they?

Yeah, we are. I've gotten used to Nach's lack of tact. I usually just stop responding to him. Likewise, I'm sure he's used to my pedancy (yes, I'm making that a word now; Webster take note), self-contradictions, bizarre programming style and over-reactions to just about everything.

Who cares where it came from?

No one should. But if you didn't even write it, who cares who added what first? I'm over-reacting here, sure, but this isn't the first, or even the third time "who added what first" was nit-picked. I just get tired of seeing it all the time in a scene that's supposedly working together.

I wouldn't call either of the emulations miserable. OpenSPC was quite good and accurate, and what inspired me to go the last mile (as with almost all my other emulation efforts, it was something really close that prompted me to bridge the gap to near perfection).

I see a 32x increase in precision to be a major leap forward. But yes, I didn't mean to downplay the awesomeness that everyone else pulled off previously. Sorry about that.

Post by **grinvader** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:40 pm

Magus` wrote:Someone needs a kitten pile.

Good appetizer idea... Very flammable, small amount of flesh, roasts very quickly and yet leaves the taste untouched.

Post by **Nach** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:09 pm

byuu wrote: Yeah, we are. I've gotten used to Nach's lack of tact.

WHAT?!?

Surely you mean my bluntness.

byuu wrote: Likewise, I'm sure he's used to my pedancy

You only seem to have it for emulation, otherwise not enough at all, so I wish you had more.

byuu wrote: self-contradictions

Since when? You probably misunderstanding.

byuu wrote: bizarre programming style

Nothing bizarre about it, and it's sanctioned by all those books you'll never read.

byuu wrote: over-reactions to just about everything

Nah, you just don't have the same outlook as I do. It doesn't psychically hurt you to read improperly phrased questions that don't mean what they say and the like.

byuu · Post by **byuu** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:55 pm

Tact - a keen sense of what to say or do to avoid giving offense

Blunt - abrupt in address or manner

Well, if you know what you say is offensive, but still say it anyway, then yes. You are very blunt, but have tact. It's not like it's necessarily a bad thing. You're almost always right anyway, and yesmen are far less valuable to talk to than someone who's always polite.

But you still annoy me quite frequently when you do that stuff, sorry :P

You only seem to have it for emulation, otherwise not enough at all, so I wish you had more.

Well, we haven't talked much about other stuff. Spent seven years translating a video game. Just last week I spent five days designing a UI with six controls to be as perfect as possible. I guess pedantic about things I care about is more accurate.

Since when? You probably misunderstanding.

Probably a bad word for it. I change my mind a lot. For instance, I did mention once something I did first. It's not really hypocritical, as my opinions on this matter weren't negative back then. Meh, whatever.

Nothing bizarre about it, and it's sanctioned by all those books you'll never read.

"Rewriting" the STL and Boost, using 3-10 .cpp files per object file, and including all headers for the project in each object file just to be safe isn't bizarre? :)
Let's not forget the dozens of things you've talked me out of, and the Effective C++ book that helped me out a lot.

Post by **Nach** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 7:37 pm

Yeah, I'll agree to that, sort of. Maybe I need to mail out some sarcasm detectors and all that. If only I could find the right stamps. I doubt USPS accepts Super Power Club.

*Nach goes to get more drunk

adventure_of_link · Post by **adventure_of_link** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 10:19 pm

Magus` wrote:Play nice, buddies. I'll turn this forum around, I swear to god.

just how would you accomplish that?

Palin · Post by **Palin** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 2:48 am

Well... this topic sure went places.

Uh, so yeah, I guess I'll continue to use BSNES. I'll say now, that I prefer BSNES as an amateur programmer, but I prefer ZSNES for its low system requirements and overall "feel."

Hmm, maybe I should dig around in the ZSNES SVN. I can't exactly remember, but didn't you get Blargg's sound implemented before you started tearing out large chunks of code? Maybe I can find a sort-of stable version to mess around with.

Post by **grinvader** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:34 am

1-

Palin wrote:Hmm, maybe I should dig around in the ZSNES SVN.

Maybe not.

2-

I can't exactly remember,

Indeed.

3-

but didn't you get Blargg's sound implemented before you started tearing out large chunks of code?

The ripping is to make room for the new... so no.

4-

Maybe I can find a sort-of stable version to mess around with.

See #1.

Palin · Post by **Palin** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:15 am

Fair enough.

Even if I promise not to complain when I blow up my computer?

Post by **grinvader** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:20 am

In that case, try whatever you want. :)

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:18 am

Nach wrote:I doubt USPS accepts Super Power Club.

Haw!
...
I wonder if I still have those...

FirebrandX · Post by **FirebrandX** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:05 pm

All I know is when I play ZSNES, the sound is screwed up on some of my all-time favorite games. When I go to play bsnes, the sound is pretty much perfect when I play those same games, but I then have to deal with that vsync issue.

I'm torn between the two. One offers vsync without messing up the "inaccurate" audio, while the other offers perfect audio with vsync messing it up.

I order both of you guys to work on it! No bitching about "I've tried" either We're paying you by the hour here, so get it done!