Megadrive Emulation - Gives me headaches

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ProtoKnux
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Post by ProtoKnux »

funkyass wrote:1.5 GB of ram?

three sticks or two?
No, now I have 2 gb of DDR2800 RAM, a different processor, a different mobo with a different chipset, and even a different sound card.

I have tried with a Radeon x550 and the results were the saaameee.....

I can't think of my hardware being a piece of shit, everything is different right now and the results are the same. And I even did the change to x64. The only thing that remains right now is the IRQ sharing. But I disabled the other devices and still not working. I'm dying here, somebody doesn't want me to play Megadrive and is cursing my computah.

PD: There's something that changed tho. When I try Turbo Mode on Regen now it "replaces" frame skipping problems with sound skipping problems. Awesome.
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Post by King Of Chaos »

Do you have VSync enabled in Regen when you enable Turbo Mode? If so, Turbo Mode doesn't work with VSync.

Now, about the graphics card issue(s). I'd ask what card(s) everyone else uses successfully, and pick one based on the opinions (or if there's multiple people using the same card). :)
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ProtoKnux
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Post by ProtoKnux »

King Of Chaos wrote:Do you have VSync enabled in Regen when you enable Turbo Mode? If so, Turbo Mode doesn't work with VSync.

Now, about the graphics card issue(s). I'd ask what card(s) everyone else uses successfully, and pick one based on the opinions (or if there's multiple people using the same card). :)
Yeah, I have VSync enabled, because it hurts to see the screen divided by two everytime I move my character on any game. I understand Vsync needs CPU and a good graphics card, but I have em both. I can even run VBA-M with HQ4X filter on Direct3D without frame skip and with Vsync and Triple Buffering options activated at 1440x900. That's a lot of processing, and I think this is not. The FPS meter on Gens and Regen says 59.6 and 59.7 everytime.

Anyway, I can't pick another card right now and this one is good, I can run almost anything I need to run(except Genesis emulators, of course), and I wouldn't downgrade to a 50$ graphics card just because it runs fine with emulation.

I don't know if Turbo Mode works with Vsync or not, I just don't notice any tearing with them both enabled. So Vsync has to be still working when I activate Turbo Mode.
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Post by King Of Chaos »

ProtoKnux wrote:I don't know if Turbo Mode works with Vsync or not, I just don't notice any tearing with them both enabled. So Vsync has to be still working when I activate Turbo Mode.
Not in Regen, no. VSync + Turbo Mode doesn't work. When you activate Turbo Mode with VSync enabled, nothing should happen.
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ProtoKnux
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Post by ProtoKnux »

King Of Chaos wrote:
ProtoKnux wrote:I don't know if Turbo Mode works with Vsync or not, I just don't notice any tearing with them both enabled. So Vsync has to be still working when I activate Turbo Mode.
Not in Regen, no. VSync + Turbo Mode doesn't work. When you activate Turbo Mode with VSync enabled, nothing should happen.
Well then I say something happens and is that it works. There are no frame skips, but there are sound skips. That's my report. If you don't like it then make it so it doesn't work (wtf...).

Ok, now I KNOW it has to be the sound buffering.
Last edited by ProtoKnux on Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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AamirM
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Post by AamirM »

Hi,
Well then I say something happens and is that it works. There are no frame skips, but there are sound skips. That's my report. If you don't like it then make it so it doesn't work (wtf...).

Ok, now I KNOW it has to be the sound buffering.
Okay, I am going to make it a bit clear. Regen (only the new 0.93 betas not the releases before) normally syncs using sound card. This was done to remove sound skips that people were having just like you are now reporting. Now if vsync is enabled, both the video and sound card now are being used for timing. This may create occasional frameskips (happens about 30 seconds or so here). But strangely you are getting more frameskips. Now if turbo mode is enabled while in this configuration, only the video card is used for timing. This can result in some sound skip (happens about every one minute or so here).

Now, it seems to me that since you have vsync enabled all the time, your video card is blocking too long such that Regen/Gens/Kega have to skip frame to avoid sound skips.

I am doing things no differently than any other emulators out there. But I can't understand why only Regen/Gens/Kega are problematic. Did you try using the "Use Alternate Timing" in Kega I suggested you before?

stay safe,

AamirM
ProtoKnux
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Post by ProtoKnux »

AamirM wrote:Hi,
Well then I say something happens and is that it works. There are no frame skips, but there are sound skips. That's my report. If you don't like it then make it so it doesn't work (wtf...).

Ok, now I KNOW it has to be the sound buffering.
Did you try using the "Use Alternate Timing" in Kega I suggested you before?

stay safe,

AamirM
Yes, I tried that alternate timing option. And still frame skips. The real problem is, if I have frame skips, I have no sound skips, and if I have sound skips, I have no frame skips, but I can't avoid em both. If I want that I have to raise the SoundBufferSize parameter and the sound would be laggy. That's the real problem. If you have any ideas I would be thankful.
Last edited by ProtoKnux on Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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tetsuo55
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Post by tetsuo55 »

Deathlike2 wrote:
tetsuo55 wrote:
ProtoKnux wrote:Ok, I have no IRQ conflicts, but my graphics card is sharing the IRQ 18 with my integrated ethernet card, and 2 USB ports.
IRQ18 is a shared IRQ. There are only 16 IRQ's (0-15). ACPI allows the mapping of shared IRQ's on i think 9, 10 and 11. So 16 and up are all on one or more of these 3 IRQ's.
IIRC, there's something that is used to extend the # of IRQs available (another 8 IRQs are available).

Found it.. it's the ACPI APIC Function... http://www.techarp.com/showfreebog.aspx ... &bogno=363
Yep It basically adds load-balancing for IRQ's
ProtoKnux wrote:Image

That's what I get.

Anyway, tried x64, doesn't make a goddamn bit of difference. So that speed benefit is bullshit. Sorry about it.

That means... is the graphics card. What should I do?

About that APIC function, I don't have it on my BIOS.
As you can see in your screenshot basically ALL your hardware is sharing IRQ9.

You could try and disable ACPI but that would also disable your second core(if your current cpu is dualcore).

Are you able to get bsnes crackle/skip free?
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Post by Deathlike2 »

tetsuo55 wrote:As you can see in your screenshot basically ALL your hardware is sharing IRQ9.
You are starting to trigger massive franpa alerts, and that's not a good sign. Nowhere in the picture is what you are suggesting. Sure there is IRQ sharing, but certainly not with IRQ9. I've seen systems that do this but this is not one of them.
You could try and disable ACPI but that would also disable your second core(if your current cpu is dualcore).
That's a stupid idea since that usually requires a reinstall of the OS (for 2K/XP, and maybe 9x, IIRC, this could be worked around, but don't expect good stuff to happen). Although, Vista seems to require ACPI enabled for installation of the OS. Don't plan on it working.
Continuing [url=http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?board=13.0]FF4[/url] Research...
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Post by franpa »

With XP you can do a repair install and choose a new kernel computer type. I tried it once, and found it to be not worth the trouble at all, and is virtually impossible returning back to what you had in the beginning. (I reinstalled windows.)
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Post by adventure_of_link »

franpa wrote:With XP you can do a repair install and choose a new kernel computer type. I tried it once, and found it to be not worth the trouble at all, and is virtually impossible returning back to what you had in the beginning. (I reinstalled windows.)
Image

although vista may have a repair install, the OP is using Vista, NOT XP.
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Post by King Of Chaos »

I honestly don't believe it has anything to do with the operating system.
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Post by franpa »

True but irrelevant to what I meant, sorry I misread Deathlikes post.
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Post by Deathlike2 »

King Of Chaos wrote:I honestly don't believe it has anything to do with the operating system.
franpa wrote:True but irrelevant to what I meant, sorry I misread Deathlikes post.
Both replies don't shock me.

I think funkyass's question suggests some sort of RAM instability type issues (like, you can't use optimal settings when you fill all the slots).

My guess though is to try some conservative BIOS settings and see if that makes a difference...
Continuing [url=http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?board=13.0]FF4[/url] Research...
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Post by franpa »

My post above was aimed at AOL and not King Of Chaos who posted at the same time.
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Post by Deathlike2 »

franpa wrote:My post above was aimed at AOL and not King Of Chaos who posted at the same time.
I'm very aware of that.
Continuing [url=http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?board=13.0]FF4[/url] Research...
ProtoKnux
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Post by ProtoKnux »

Deathlike2 wrote:That's a stupid idea since that usually requires a reinstall of the OS (for 2K/XP, and maybe 9x, IIRC, this could be worked around, but don't expect good stuff to happen). Although, Vista seems to require ACPI enabled for installation of the OS. Don't plan on it working.
adventure_of_link wrote:although vista may have a repair install, the OP is using Vista, NOT XP.
I think this is a total misunderstanding. I'm using XP SP3, not Vista. Vista is a piece of crap and I don't think it will work better with emulators. And if I had the oportunity, I would install Windows 98SE on another partition, but there are no nvidia 7 series drivers for 9x systems and it would be difficult to patch the OS to recognize at least more than 512 MB of RAM.

If someone here has a nvidia 7 series card, it would be helpful if you post your forceware version, and if it's modified or not.
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tetsuo55
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Post by tetsuo55 »

Deathlike2 wrote:
tetsuo55 wrote:As you can see in your screenshot basically ALL your hardware is sharing IRQ9.
You are starting to trigger massive franpa alerts, and that's not a good sign. Nowhere in the picture is what you are suggesting. Sure there is IRQ sharing, but certainly not with IRQ9. I've seen systems that do this but this is not one of them.
In the screenshot you see a Microsoft acpi-compliant system on IRQ9
This bsaically works as a load balancer that adds IRQ 16-23 at the cost of losing IRQ9

Most devices don't care but soundcards and network cards are more picky
See here:
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=252420

Deathlike2 wrote:
tetsuo55 wrote:You could try and disable ACPI but that would also disable your second core(if your current cpu is dualcore).
That's a stupid idea since that usually requires a reinstall of the OS (for 2K/XP, and maybe 9x, IIRC, this could be worked around, but don't expect good stuff to happen). Although, Vista seems to require ACPI enabled for installation of the OS. Don't plan on it working.
You're right that he would probably need to reformat, but he does seem to have enough free IRQ's for most of his devices. As long as video, sound and nic are on a unique IRQ he should be fine

But i agree that its another long shot.
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Post by Gil_Hamilton »

tetsuo55 wrote:
Deathlike2 wrote:
tetsuo55 wrote:As you can see in your screenshot basically ALL your hardware is sharing IRQ9.
You are starting to trigger massive franpa alerts, and that's not a good sign. Nowhere in the picture is what you are suggesting. Sure there is IRQ sharing, but certainly not with IRQ9. I've seen systems that do this but this is not one of them.
In the screenshot you see a Microsoft acpi-compliant system on IRQ9
This bsaically works as a load balancer that adds IRQ 16-23 at the cost of losing IRQ9

Most devices don't care but soundcards and network cards are more picky
See here:
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=252420
Ummm, no.

If the devices are listed as on the same IRQ, they're on the same IRQ.
Otherwise, it's no different than the old AT hack(you know, it's why you can't use IRQ2?). Cascading interrupt handlers is nothing new, and there's nothing wrong with it. Otherwise, IRQs 8-15 would have had severe performance issues, making them TOTALLY unsuitable for hard drive controllers and math coprocessors.


And ACPI is Advanced Configuration and Power Interface.
That's the interrupt for any power management features. It's got nothing to do with shared interrupts or cascaded interrupt controllers.
It's also a hard-coded IRQ. ACPI ALWAYS uses IRQ9, and it doesn't share.
ALL POWER MANAGEMENT FEATURES USE IRQ9, AND NOTHING ELSE CAN USE IRQ9.

You might notice that it's on the ISA bus. That should ring a lot of bells right there.



APIC is the new interrupt controller standard. And it's a flat standard. There are no cascaded interrupt controllers on a modern system.

You're right that he would probably need to reformat, but he does seem to have enough free IRQ's for most of his devices. As long as video, sound and nic are on a unique IRQ he should be fine
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tetsuo55
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Post by tetsuo55 »

Please post a source to back up your wild claims.

My microsoft source states Exactly what i said in my post.
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Post by Gil_Hamilton »

tetsuo55 wrote:Please post a source to back up your wild claims.

My microsoft source states Exactly what i said in my post.
No it doesn't.

It says it's normal for ACPI computers to share IRQs. It doesn't say that ACPI means "IRQs shared here."


I will admit to being wrong in that ACPI also enables PCI IRQ steering.

But if you had a system using that feature, you could tell easily, because each shared IRQ would have ANOTHER entry besides the hardware saying "Handle for IRQ steering" or something to that effect.

As someone with plenty of legacy machines using the poor overloaded twin-8259 interrupt controllers(including a Windows 2K machine until this February), I actually know what I'm talking about.


In fact, one of the first things I noticed when I set up my first Athlon 64 and started poking around was "Holy shit! More than 15 interrupts!"


IRQs above 15 DO NOT EXIST WITHOUT APIC. PERIOD.
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Post by ProtoKnux »

Uhm, okay, but then could it be the IRQ sharing or not? I can't force my graphics card to use other IRQ than 18, and I don't notice changes if I disable the other devices using that IRQ.

Oh, and what is the fucking SM bus? seems like entirely related
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Post by Gil_Hamilton »

ProtoKnux wrote:Uhm, okay, but then could it be the IRQ sharing or not? I can't force my graphics card to use other IRQ than 18, and I don't notice changes if I disable the other devices using that IRQ.

Oh, and what is the fucking SM bus? seems like entirely related
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_Management_Bus

Short(er) version: Not related.



And given your system, I doubt there's any IRQ issues.
Unless they're USB-related, since both your audio and video devices are sharing with USB controllers.
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Post by ProtoKnux »

I have nothing installed on usb ports.

I think there's only a reason and is the graphics card as I said before.
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AamirM
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Post by AamirM »

Hi,

@ProtoKnux:

Can't you just disable Vsync? :) . Or disable vsync and enter fullscreen. Maybe some thing heavy is running in background which is stealing CPU time. Try diabling some background thing that you might be running (like anitvirus etc..). Also try playing with some video card settings (since I don't have a dedicated video card I cannot tell which things to play with :) ). That said, I might PM you a special build which might fix the problem. But don't expect it soon. I don't see it as a problem with WinXP or even the hardware. I think there is a large mismatch between the timings of the sound card and video card.

stay safe,

AamirM

P.S.:
Just out of curiosity, what other emulators have you tried? and what settings?

stay safe,

AamirM
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