pSX emulator v1.13 released!

[funkyass]

Bah, I no PSX emulator will ever be complete until it can run without requiring a bios. Why has there been no developments for this, besides ancient comercial emulators?

See Lawyers, Sony.

[Reznor007]

Bah, I no PSX emulator will ever be complete until it can run without requiring a bios. Why has there been no developments for this, besides ancient comercial emulators?

The real thing won't work without a BIOS...so an emulator kind of requires it too.

Bleem didn't need it because it had their own custom BIOS built in.

[pagefault]

It's just easier to use code already made for you than try to make your own. Same reason why we don't make our own BS-X or SGB bios.

[grinvader]

Probably for the same old legal mumbo jumbo.

Sony won't sue it as long as you need to have the bioses (which legally requires you to dump it from a console you own) to run it.
If you pirated the bios to play it, it becomes your fault, not the emulator's.

[pSXAuthor]

yeah I hope none of you jumped the gun and tried it. it comes up clean on my virus scan, but there's a lot of fishy shit about it. each text file in the folders says "romh was here," wtf does that mean. the exe compressed a great deal, pry cause most of the shit in the file is air. plus there's raw uncompiled C code near the end of the exe. wtf.

fully emulates the psx, yet waited until now to release it. I didn't try it, but looks too good to be true.

Thanks for checking it out... good to know I didn't accidentally release a virused .exe.

The "raw uncompiled C code" is actually HLSL code for the PS2 emulation (which doesn't actually do much yet).

As for "romh was here"... I guess you were never a Whirlpool regular/lurker

[pSXAuthor]

sorry for the double post - i get a PHP error (something to do with inserting words into a table for the search feature) and i clicked submit twice... doh...

[adventure_of_link]

Don't worry about it pSXauthor. It's an SQL error, which we think is server wide.

[pSXAuthor]

Very nice.
However like all the other good emulators it's closed source.
Which is a major issue for emulators these days.

Can't add features, can't port it, etc...


Interesting to note the Author wants to remain totally anonymous, at least we know he's British

Doh! - how do you know that?

[Ichinisan]

pSXAuthor, your post count is scary (this board is going bonkers).

[kieran_]

I get really low CPU usage with this emu... around 4-10% on an AMD Sempron 2800+.

[Hyos]

Bah, I no PSX emulator will ever be complete until it can run without requiring a bios. Why has there been no developments for this, besides ancient comercial emulators?

That's why the commercial Emus got sued by Sony (one of the reasons Sony was able to sue them exactly). They emulated the BIOS.

[Clements]

pSXAuthor, your post count is scary (this board is going bonkers).

Post count is no longer increased as of when the board problem started.

[Nach]

Very nice.
However like all the other good emulators it's closed source.
Which is a major issue for emulators these days.

Can't add features, can't port it, etc...


Interesting to note the Author wants to remain totally anonymous, at least we know he's British

Doh! - how do you know that?

Since you're here, let me say a few things.

We've had quite a few PSX emulators come out the past few years.
All the decent ones were closed source and don't seem to be developed anymore.
This is really annoying as joint development can fix bugs, what we learn about one system can be applied to another, and rapid development of new features is easier with open source.

A few examples in your exact case:
Not all CD formats are supported. Meaning some of us would add support for other formats

Your sound doesn't do gaussian properly, and the correct algorithms to do this are known by developers of updates emulators which contain Sony sound chips (SNES, PSX, PS2). Meaning SNES developers who've implemented sound support properly can improve your sound.

You miss out on several features related to making movies. Meaning if this was open source, people from http://bisqwit.iki.fi/nesvideos/ would work on save states, frame by frame, key logging, audio and video file writing, and more.

I could go on, but I think you get the idea.
Now you might think, hey what about ePSXe? I intend the next time _Demo_ comes online to ask him about that, he open sourced ZSNES... Perhaps he'll do the same for ePSXe...

Some of us might also attempt to port your program to *nix thus increasing your user base.
Unless you're attempting to make money, or have legal issue for doing so, or are worried about people forking your project, there really is no reason not to open source an emulator today.
You actually benefit by open sourcing it as people can point out bugs, or work on sections you have no intention on working on (such as graphic filters).

I too know the feeling of what it's like to allow someone else to "work on your baby", but I feel for emulators, it's the best thing to do.



As for I knew you were British, Data Mining 101 - I read your readme, and derived that knowledge from some interesting sections in it.

[Ichinisan]

Bah, I no PSX emulator will ever be complete until it can run without requiring a bios. Why has there been no developments for this, besides ancient comercial emulators?

That's why the commercial Emus got sued by Sony (one of the reasons Sony was able to sue them exactly). They emulated the BIOS.

Why, then, was the original Compaq IBM-compatible PC legal? Compaq hired two seperate teams. One to reverse-engineer the IBM BIOS and document its exact behaviour, and the other to create an entirely new BIOS from scratch that meets the behaviour requirements specified by the first team. Why does this approach not work today?

[pSXAuthor]

Very nice.
However like all the other good emulators it's closed source.
Which is a major issue for emulators these days.

Can't add features, can't port it, etc...


Interesting to note the Author wants to remain totally anonymous, at least we know he's British

Doh! - how do you know that?

Since you're here, let me say a few things.

We've had quite a few PSX emulators come out the past few years.
All the decent ones were closed source and don't seem to be developed anymore.
This is really annoying as joint development can fix bugs, what we learn about one system can be applied to another, and rapid development of new features is easier with open source.

A few examples in your exact case:
Not all CD formats are supported. Meaning some of us would add support for other formats

All good points, but there are arguments against open source too... maybe I will one day - I'm not ready yet. There are other open source PS1 emulators if people really want to do that sort of stuff.

Other CD formats are on the way...

Your sound doesn't do gaussian properly, and the correct algorithms to do this are known by developers of updates emulators which contain Sony sound chips (SNES, PSX, PS2). Meaning SNES developers who've implemented sound support properly can improve your sound.

Gaussian is not necessarily correct for sound. The PSX hardware itself probably uses linear interpolation too. Sinc is probably more correct for sound than gaussian anyway.

I think you'll find though that the sound emulation is pretty good in pSX - probably up there with the best (which is probably the pEOPS plugin) even if I do say so myself [sans some bugs which I've discussed elsewhere]

You miss out on several features related to making movies. Meaning if this was open source, people from http://bisqwit.iki.fi/nesvideos/ would work on save states, frame by frame, key logging, audio and video file writing, and more.

State saves are already supported (although there is a bug that sometimes happens when loading them). As for the other stuff.. its not really that important for people who just want to play games, which is the aim of this emulator.

tbh one of my aims is to not have all of that stuff! - My focus is on getting games to run exactly as they did on the orignal hardware.

I could go on, but I think you get the idea.
Now you might think, hey what about ePSXe? I intend the next time _Demo_ comes online to ask him about that, he open sourced ZSNES... Perhaps he'll do the same for ePSXe...

Some of us might also attempt to port your program to *nix thus increasing your user base.
Unless you're attempting to make money, or have legal issue for doing so, or are worried about people forking your project, there really is no reason not to open source an emulator today.
You actually benefit by open sourcing it as people can point out bugs, or work on sections you have no intention on working on (such as graphic filters).

I too know the feeling of what it's like to allow someone else to "work on your baby", but I feel for emulators, it's the best thing to do.

I hear what you are saying and I agree to some extent. btw I am sharing my source code with at least some of the other PS1/2 emulator teams and I'll consider any request for the code... I'm just not ready to open source yet.

As for I knew you were British, Data Mining 101 - I read your readme, and derived that knowledge from some interesting sections in it.

God - do I really sound that British

Anyway - thanks for your interest, and thanks for ZSNES - I have played many a game using it so you deserve a lot of respect in my book.

[Jipcy]

Why does this approach not work today?

Perhaps because the field of intellectual property law is much more developed today than it was then.

Anyway - thanks for your interest, and thanks for ZSNES - I have played many a game using it so you deserve a lot of respect in my book.

As do the other authors, I hope.

[pSXAuthor]

Anyway - thanks for your interest, and thanks for ZSNES - I have played many a game using it so you deserve a lot of respect in my book.

As do the other authors, I hope.[/quote]

Definately! - I used the royal you... or something

[Nach]

All good points, but there are arguments against open source too... maybe I will one day - I'm not ready yet. There are other open source PS1 emulators if people really want to do that sort of stuff.

Good PS1 emulators?

Other CD formats are on the way...

I was really generalizing with that statement.

Your sound doesn't do gaussian properly, and the correct algorithms to do this are known by developers of updates emulators which contain Sony sound chips (SNES, PSX, PS2). Meaning SNES developers who've implemented sound support properly can improve your sound.

Gaussian is not necessarily correct for sound. The PSX hardware itself probably uses linear interpolation too. Sinc is probably more correct for sound than gaussian anyway.

Well, I'll let kode54 handle the audio comment, he's the one who brought it up on our IRC channel.

You miss out on several features related to making movies. Meaning if this was open source, people from http://bisqwit.iki.fi/nesvideos/ would work on save states, frame by frame, key logging, audio and video file writing, and more.

State saves are already supported (although there is a bug that sometimes happens when loading them). As for the other stuff.. its not really that important for people who just want to play games, which is the aim of this emulator.

tbh one of my aims is to not have all of that stuff! - My focus is on getting games to run exactly as they did on the orignal hardware.

Yes, but that's the whole point about open source. You can stick to your aims, while others can add the features you don't care so much about.

Take bsnes for example http://byuu.cinnamonpirate.com/?page=bsnes
He didn't care much for supporting compressed ROM dumps, but many people wanted such support, and since it was open source I added it. He didn't have to waste time on it. Win win for everybody.

I hear what you are saying and I agree to some extent. btw I am sharing my source code with at least some of the other PS1/2 emulator teams and I'll consider any request for the code... I'm just not ready to open source yet.

Personally, I would appreciate if you open sourced it for three reasons.

1) Port it to other OSs.
2) Add features you don't care about adding.
3) If you stop working on it / too busy, others can improve the emulation.

Sharing with the other devs helps problem 3 to a certain extent, but doesn't cover 1 or 2.
Although I can fully understand if you're not ready to open source yet. Would be nice though if it's a clear objective for the not so distant future.

BTW, regarding your issues with NX systems. Did you have your compiler mark data segments as writable? We used to do that in ZSNES, till I realized Linux didn't like that being done in real time if your CPU had NX, and OpenBSD didn't like that, not to mention that for us it was rediculous. If you need info on how to do that for Windows, I can dig it up.

As for I knew you were British, Data Mining 101 - I read your readme, and derived that knowledge from some interesting sections in it.

God - do I really sound that British

Probably not, but I've been trying to develop identifying techniques over the past couple of years.

Anyway - thanks for your interest, and thanks for ZSNES - I have played many a game using it so you deserve a lot of respect in my book.

Thank you for responding. And thanks for the appreciation, I appreciate it

[byuu]

All good points, but there are arguments against open source too...

Such as...? Forking is the only one I dislike, and it's relatively uncommon nowadays to have your work stolen. But, that does happen. Most of the time though, the community will flame the authors and the projects won't garner much of a userbase.

It seems that when a new system is emulated decently for the first time, the projects are almost always closed source. This is almost definitely the original author protecting his time investment and not wanting to be ripped off, which is usually fueled by egoism when there is no profit motive involved. (Obviously, this is not the case with pSX, as there are already great PSX emulators out there already) After the first release, new open source emulators start appearing a few months later. See: n64, sega cd, neo geo, wonderswan, etc. etc.
The saturn is one system that is seriously hindered by the entire community being set on closed source emulators.
But it's your work, and your call. So I respect your decision to keep the source closed. I can say from experience though that I've received so much help, that my own emulator wouldn't be half as good as it is today had it been closed source.

Anyway, keep up the good work. A PSX emulator without plugins is a fantastic idea! I'll be sure to check it out sometime soon.

[funkyass]

Bah, I no PSX emulator will ever be complete until it can run without requiring a bios. Why has there been no developments for this, besides ancient comercial emulators?

That's why the commercial Emus got sued by Sony (one of the reasons Sony was able to sue them exactly). They emulated the BIOS.

Why, then, was the original Compaq IBM-compatible PC legal? Compaq hired two seperate teams. One to reverse-engineer the IBM BIOS and document its exact behaviour, and the other to create an entirely new BIOS from scratch that meets the behaviour requirements specified by the first team. Why does this approach not work today?

Because in the Compaq case, Compaq's implementation didn't violate any software copyrights that IBM might have held - its was purely sane patent law, with a properly funded PTO.

Move forward 20 or so years, you know have software patents, a essentially crippled PTO, and very active IP lawyers. Sony can simply say to a judge because the impletation worked identically, they are distrubuting a copy of their BIOS, which has proprietary software that they hold a copyright on. Else the implemenation would not have been identical enough to work properly.

[PHoNyMiKe]

I want control over your program, I want everything to be open source

dude it's his software and he can do what he wants with it, lay off, nobody cares.

as for the ps bios stuff, I'm pretty damn sure if you emulate it without using sony's code directly, then you're okay. such as emulation of the s-dd1 for the snes, it came from reverse engineering, and the method of emulation was made completely from scratch. no documents were stolen and copied or anything. it's just easier for the author of a ps emu to make the users download a readily available bios and use it, rather than rewrite their own bios emulation routines.

[Dmog]

[quote="phonymike"]"I want control over your program, I want everything to be open source"

dude it's his software and he can do what he wants with it,

Childishly lame...First,you missed the point entirely. Just went waaaayy over your head. Nach argued in favor of open source, maybe because *gasp* he believe in open source software. He did so intelligently too. You on the other hand brought nothing into the discussion.

It's not about wanting to "control everything". He and others listed the reasons why,in their opinion, open-source is desirable. Now,if the pSX author want to keep his emulator close source that's his right and it's fine too.


[lay off, nobody cares]

You meant you don't.No need to speak for everyone.





Anyway,I'd like to apologize to psx author for "mistrusting" his emu at first. I hope you'll keep improving this great emulator.

[sweener2001]

you have NO idea how to use quote tags, do you?

[Aerdan]

Bah, I no PSX emulator will ever be complete until it can run without requiring a bios. Why has there been no developments for this, besides ancient comercial emulators?

That's why the commercial Emus got sued by Sony (one of the reasons Sony was able to sue them exactly). They emulated the BIOS.

Why, then, was the original Compaq IBM-compatible PC legal? Compaq hired two seperate teams. One to reverse-engineer the IBM BIOS and document its exact behaviour, and the other to create an entirely new BIOS from scratch that meets the behaviour requirements specified by the first team. Why does this approach not work today?

Because in the Compaq case, Compaq's implementation didn't violate any software copyrights that IBM might have held - its was purely sane patent law, with a properly funded PTO.

Move forward 20 or so years, you know have software patents, a essentially crippled PTO, and very active IP lawyers. Sony can simply say to a judge because the impletation worked identically, they are distrubuting a copy of their BIOS, which has proprietary software that they hold a copyright on. Else the implemenation would not have been identical enough to work properly.

Actually, it's still legal to do so today, due to the 'clean room' laws; see the
recent post on reactOS's blog about 'clean room'.

[Dmog]

you have NO idea how to use quote tags, do you?

As a matter I do. But, being an imperfect individual, I can made a mistake once in a while I mean, one in 250 post ain't that bad.

You have NO idea how to use the search function,do you? (else you would have seen my excellent "quoting correctly" record track.