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Official thread to take potshots at fitz 
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Trooper
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Quote:
Wrong, you have to find it first, in total it would take a new user 30 seconds. Just for that. The "options" menu issue could cumulatively waste hours for each person over the course of life usage. For no reason. And the more bloated the menu becomes failing to simplify itself, the harder it becomes to wade through.


Ok, if I follow you by taking upon yourself the task of determining what is the best (always according to you of course), the standardized, the 'sole' emulator configuration, you are collectively saving the human race (or at least the part that use the program) thousands of cumulative hours doing something that is ultimately a choir.

Alright very noble (if not a bit BigBrother like) Except you don't even know the percentages of users that like the "do you want to quit" option, and those that don't...(Also, they'll just "waste" those cumulative seconds elsewhere anyway, but that's another story I guess)


FitzRoy wrote:
But that's the argument that begets bloat. Looked at individually, they don't waste a lot of time. Cumulatively, they do. Which is why, yes, you want to address them to make sure the droplets don't form a pool.


What you call bloat in this case, others call it choice.

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Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:23 pm
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Snark wrote:
Alright very noble (if not a bit BigBrother like) Except you don't even know the percentages of users that like the "do you want to quit" option, and those that don't...(Also, they'll just "waste" those cumulative seconds elsewhere anyway, but that's another story I guess)


Seeing as how I've never accidentally clicked the close button in years of using emulators, and looking at the frequency with which it appears in much more popular programs, I think we can infer the percentage of people wanting this to be very low, below 1%.

Quote:
What you call bloat in this case, others call it choice.


No, the majority of users who find constant confirmation of intent more annoying than the remote chance of unintentional closure have no choice but to find the configuration area and disable it. If you mean including the option to enable it, I can sort of see it going in a hodgepodge section. Thing is, NO ONE HAS ASKED FOR IT.

Before you keep arguing with me, define for me what you think bloat is or if the concept even registers with you. If inclusion is justified by nothing more than someone wanting something, the program will expand to hundreds of megabytes, the configuration section will take up the entire screen and have thousands of options, and byuu will no longer have time to work on emulation. It is my preference to want polka-dot filters of every color, Snark. Who the hell are you to deny my ability to choose that?


Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:10 am
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sweener2001 wrote:

using another thread, the windows 7 beta one. he hates the superbar/start menu because he thinks everyone should just have all their popular icons on the desktop. sure, efficiency arguments were made, and he might have "destroyed someone's world" dropping that bomb; but in the end, it all boiled down to his personal preference about how programs should be launched.

preference is fine, assuming its the one right way isn't. i enjoy a clean, empty desktop, and launching from quick launch. or vista start --> (oh snap!) my other favorite programs are right there. it's not like things never end up on my desktop, but if we look at a real desktop, it's not going to have to everything splayed out on top. just about all the tools will be hidden in the drawers, or organized very neatly in a corner. i only use the real desktop example because fitzroy did.



On the desktop subject, I use both methods. I place icons of my most used programs on the desktop, and I use the start function to run other programs I rarely use. I like the combination of both methods.


Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:32 am
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FitzRoy wrote:
That would probably be easier than me becoming a programmer, or going through the same gambit with someone else.

I think if Franky can learn to program, you've got nothing to worry about. BAM.

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Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:00 am
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since byuu would like to have a peaceful forum (he's stated this several times), I'm moving this to general nonsense for him. have a nice day, and fire away.

and AamirM, that pic REALLY freaks you out?! ahahahahaha :lol:

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Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:01 am
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I love you guys :D

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Seriously, what kind of asshole makes an old-school 2D emulator that requires a Core 2 to get full speed? >:(


Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:10 am
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I've been reading this thread, and have a question:
Are you guys incapable of shutting the fuck up?
I'm all for infighting if it weeds out the asshats, and leaves the people who actually make a positive difference intact, but every argument in this thread is absolutely meaningless.

I will agree that fitz can appear a little "demanding", but what rights do you people have to argue if you can't offer something better?
FitzRoy is the person who actually offers sugesstions, and for the most part they are good suggestions. But guess who's in charge?
It's byuu who pulls the shots, so stop worrying about FitzRoy.

FitzRoy != byuu, so chances are there will be a whole load of byuu in the final decision.

Quote:
I think if Franky can learn to program, you've got nothing to worry about. BAM.

Oh, you're insulting me now? (by implying that I am stupid).
Well then, continue. It's better that way, because if instead of taking potshots at fitzroy you then take potshots at me, I really won't care (and probably won't respond), thus this entire thread will stop (whereas with fitzroy he'd keep saying totally-correct things to you asshats, making you asshats continue these stupid arguments). And all will live happily ever after.

So yes, everyone stop taking potshots at fitzroy. Take potshots at ME!
I'm even giving you direct permission to do it! so fucking do it!!



chmod a+x this_stupid_thread


Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:39 am
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FitzRoy wrote:
or if the concept even registers with you.


Yes, I know what bloat is. Bloat is unnecessary features that bog down your program. No I don't want to get into an argument over what bloat is. No, I don't consider 1k of code "bloat". Your silly filter example isn't valid because in this case you're 'asking' for a feature. You actually wants to remove features on the sole basis that you don't like them.

The way you characterize the feature you dislike is also deeply dishonest. No features is currently present, or have ever been in the past, as silly as you characterize them.

No, even if Nestopia 'keeps' the exit option that doesn't mean it will eventually include a Java version of Tetris or ask you if you want to install yahoo toolbar. In fact, I'm betting 99.9999% it won't happen :D. You take the slippery slope argument to a whole new level.

Ugh Seriously this argument is just...awful.

edit: franky wtf Reading the god-awful argument raise your aggressiveness or are you just plain retarded?

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Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:56 am
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Quote:
edit: franky wtf Reading the god-awful argument raise your aggressiveness or are you just plain retarded?

Nope, not retarded. I'm just generally quite agressive in nature.
That, and at 01:04 am, I'm feeling particularly crazy.

Plus, I'm dead cereal.

Well then, bloat:
- When a program does more than nescesary.
- When a program does useless things
- Windows Vista
- Most Linux distros.
- When a program is more complex than required
- When a program's source code is poorly written, regardless of actual performance.
- When you eat too much pizza and it expands in your stomach, subsequently making you simultaneously feel like shit, and feel great.

Basically, when a program uses more resources than nescesary.
To put it in a much simpler way, bloat is when you adhere to Wirth's Law (or when you eat too much pizza, but don't physically vommit as a result).

Swatting a fly with a sledge-hammer can also be considered as bloat.

Excessive amount of configuration options is excessive, not bloat.


Sun Feb 01, 2009 2:04 am
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Franky wrote:
So yes, everyone stop taking potshots at fitzroy. Take potshots at ME!


Alright.

Wtf?! Why don't you just stfu you asstwat (and all the asstwats who agree that agree with him bunch of asstwats) Seriously wtf Fitzroy didn't make a positive difference "totally correct"?? most fucked up thing I read today wtf are you on drugs? seriously stfu!!11!! [/youtube aggressiveness]



Quote:
Swatting a fly with a sledge-hammer can also be considered as bloat.


Bloat I don't know, sometimes the overkill IS warranted, but constant sledge-hammer fly-swatting is definitely not good in the long term.

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Sun Feb 01, 2009 2:42 am
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and franky and fitzroy must have skipped the part in my post where there's a difference between a suggestion and a demand.

it's not that i lose cases, i don't use bsnes and haven't made suggestions about its features. it's the tone fitzroy takes when making his 'suggestions' and the tone he takes when 'logically' defending them. basically they're not suggestions, they're demands. when someone disagrees, he defends his point with some logic and whole lot of passive/aggressive innuendo to make the other person feel stupid and inferior. what a surprise that they almost always back off. no one wants to deal with that.

yes byuu is the final decider, and i've seen him go against fitzroy's 'suggestions' plenty of time. doesn't make the way he puts them forward right, though.

massive options menus are clunky, i agree with that. but for some reason you never consider that it's something you only really need to trudge through once. and after that, the experience will run exactly as you want it to. doesn't take the annoyances of trudging through it, though.

vlc is the best case i can think of, they have a lot of options. i looked at them all once, and it behaves exactly like i want it too. it does get annoying on a re-install knowing that you have to go through it all again, but i actually think their issue is GUI organization and not too many options. i only get frustrated because i'm pretty sure that the option i want should be in one category, but it's inexplicably in the other.

and the day franky thinks he can actually tell people to stop acting stupid has not arrived.

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Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:23 am
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I'm suprised no one's mentioned this yet (and even I haven't :shock:) but ya know Fitz, the emulator IS open source.. if you don't like how the way byuu does things or you don't feel it works best for you, ya know, OBTAIN THE SOURCE AND FIX THE DAMN THING TO YOUR LIKING YOURSELF.

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<Nach> so why don't the two of you get your own room and leave us alone with this stupidity of yours?
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Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:28 am
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Snark wrote:
Yes, I know what bloat is. Bloat is unnecessary features that bog down your program.


Define unnecessary.

Quote:
Your silly filter example isn't valid because in this case you're 'asking' for a feature. You actually wants to remove features on the sole basis that you don't like them.


What am I asking be removed? I said change the default behavior so that a few people have to do something at startup rather than almost everyone.

And yes, removing bloat that exists and preventing its addition are equally effective.

Quote:
No, even if Nestopia 'keeps' the exit option that doesn't mean it will eventually include a Java version of Tetris or ask you if you want to install yahoo toolbar. In fact, I'm betting 99.9999% it won't happen :D. You take the slippery slope argument to a whole new level.


So if something is 99.9% unwanted, it's bloat, but if it's 99% unwanted, it should be added and made default behavior? Oh, I like these rules.

adventure_of_link wrote:
I'm suprised no one's mentioned this yet (and even I haven't Shocked) but ya know Fitz, the emulator IS open source.. if you don't like how the way byuu does things or you don't feel it works best for you, ya know, OBTAIN THE SOURCE AND FIX THE DAMN THING TO YOUR LIKING YOURSELF.


You're right. When byuu released the first version, this is exactly what he should have done. Just tell everyone to modify the source code to their own liking, no suggestion process. In fact, let's do this for every program, and operating systems, too.


Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:18 am
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FitzRoy wrote:
adventure_of_link wrote:
I'm suprised no one's mentioned this yet (and even I haven't Shocked) but ya know Fitz, the emulator IS open source.. if you don't like how the way byuu does things or you don't feel it works best for you, ya know, OBTAIN THE SOURCE AND FIX THE DAMN THING TO YOUR LIKING YOURSELF.


You're right. When byuu released the first version, this is exactly what he should have done. Just tell everyone to modify the source code to their own liking, no suggestion process. In fact, let's do this for every program, and operating systems, too.

You know, throughout my last 4-5 years of ZSNES board and snes9x board history, I CANNOT begin to tell you how many times someone (even me sometimes) has suggested to add it yourself, the emulator is open source. Hell, this one time, I wanted 1280x800 support in ZSNES, and I was told to add it myself. Given I don't know shit about programming, grinvader and several others on ZSNES IRC showed me how and where to modify the ZSNES sources to include 1280x800 support.

In any case you blew my point out of proportion. You're bitching and whining (almost in dictator Aerdan fashion) about what should and shouldn't go into the emulator. You're almost always testing things for Byuu. With this attitude in mind, why not modify the source to your liking and compile your own copy, or *gasp* write your own emulator!!

*sigh* one of these days this'll turn into facist FitzRoy land, where you'll have to have some variant of FitzRoy as your forums handle, let alone get plastic surgery to look like Fitz, or else you'll be ordered shot and executed, or perhaps banned from the forum. :roll:

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Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:44 am
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This thread is like a flaming train running towards a blown out bridge.

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Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:23 am
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I've seen this coming a mile away. I'm sure we'll see another batch of these posts in the near future. There is never an argument that Fitzroy plans to win or at least adamantly defend, even if his stances are properly countered and argued against logically with merit (and in some cases, Fitzroy doesn't have a clue to what he's arguing about, but argues anyway). I don't expect this to change in the future given past history. Maybe it's harsh calling him Dmog++, but... maybe it's the crazy talking.

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Sun Feb 01, 2009 8:31 am
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THIS THREAD CANNOT FINISH WITHOUT A REFERENCE TO HITLER DAMMIT

COCKFAGS

King Of Chaos wrote:
P.S. Why can't we all just get along? :P

King Of Chaos also wrote:
Why so serious?

You got your answer right there.

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Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:10 pm
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