System Requirements

The official forum for ZSNES documentation. Discuss future changes, mistakes, etc...
You can also join us on IRC at irc.freenode.net in #zsnes-docs.

Moderators: ZSNES Mods, ZSNES Doc Team

Nach
ZSNES Developer
ZSNES Developer
Posts: 3904
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 10:54 pm
Location: Solar powered park bench
Contact:

Post by Nach »

Deathlike2 wrote: Since when did Intel/AMD not sell consumer grade x86 processors?
Ever heard of the Itanium?

AMD is now also talking about making CPUs for various home entertainment devices which probably won't be using x86.
May 9 2007 - NSRT 3.4, now with lots of hashing and even more accurate information! Go download it.
_____________
Insane Coding
Deathlike2
ZSNES Developer
ZSNES Developer
Posts: 6747
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 6:47 am

Post by Deathlike2 »

Nach wrote:
Deathlike2 wrote: Since when did Intel/AMD not sell consumer grade x86 processors?
Ever heard of the Itanium?
Yes, but that's not exactly consumer grade. That's server grade, unless the definition of consumer grade is different than what I'm thinking of.
AMD is now also talking about making CPUs for various home entertainment devices which probably won't be using x86.
Last I checked, AMD was specifically making an initiative that proclaimed "x86 everywhere"... replacing the use of custom chips with some form of an x86 processor in devices like your fridge or microwave, etc..

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/Virt ... 90,00.html
Continuing [url=http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?board=13.0]FF4[/url] Research...
adventure_of_link
Locksmith of Hyrule
Posts: 3634
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2004 7:49 am
Location: 255.255.255.255
Contact:

Post by adventure_of_link »

Nach wrote:Ever heard of the Itanium?
Eh.. what instruction set did Itanium use? :?
<Nach> so why don't the two of you get your own room and leave us alone with this stupidity of yours?
NSRT here.
AntoineWG
Trooper
Posts: 530
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 6:59 pm
Location: 127.0.0.1
Contact:

Post by AntoineWG »

ia64 natively, but I believe they could also emulate an x86, albeit not very well.
[i]"It is better to have tried and failed than to have failed to try, but the result's the same." - Mike Dennison[/i]
Nach
ZSNES Developer
ZSNES Developer
Posts: 3904
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 10:54 pm
Location: Solar powered park bench
Contact:

Post by Nach »

Deathlike2 wrote:
AMD is now also talking about making CPUs for various home entertainment devices which probably won't be using x86.
Last I checked, AMD was specifically making an initiative that proclaimed "x86 everywhere"... replacing the use of custom chips with some form of an x86 processor in devices like your fridge or microwave, etc..

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/Virt ... 90,00.html
Thanks for that link, I didn't realize they were planning to use x86 in their upcoming consumer device products.
May 9 2007 - NSRT 3.4, now with lots of hashing and even more accurate information! Go download it.
_____________
Insane Coding
Jipcy
Veteran
Posts: 768
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 8:18 pm
Contact:

Post by Jipcy »

OK, so can I remove NT4 from the list of Windows OSs that we support? I guess we theoretically support it, but since you can't get the correct DirectX, then it's not supported, right?

Thinking more about it, I guess it would be best to have separate system requirements for each port, however I don't think we need to break it down farther than that (for example, the three different DOS port sections). We can make a note that special chips have higher requirements, etc.
Deathlike2 wrote:The recommendation here is to have a decent card with good DirectDraw acceleration.
Does the average user know what this means? I get the feeling not. How about if we just say "nVidia GeForce2 or better"? Will this also work for SDL?
DOS: Any SB compatible card or sound card that has decent SB emulation. It is recommended to have a SB16 or compatible one or decent SB16 emulation (DOSBox comes to mind).
Is this not what is already there?
Windows: Any DirectSound compatible card should be fine. It is recommended to have one that has DirectSound acceleration (some older cards simply don't have any).
Does the AC'97 standard have anything to do with this? Most people don't really know or care what DirectSound is. How about: "pretty much any sound card manufactured in the last 5 years"? Does this also apply to SDL?
I personally think the CPU recommendation should be upped to the speed of the XBox port (since we technically are targetting it). I think the speed was like 733Mhz or something.

The only issue is that there is too much duplication, and that parts ot the OS Section is removed (except that the XBox port is still noted.
Uh, what?

By the way, all the old information is there, I just insterted the new information. I won't delete anything until we're in agreement. (Obviously, we are using a versioned repository, so it doesn't matter, but I'm just not deleting the stuff out of TRUNK because it's easier.)

EDIT: Also, we could put an additional System Requirements section in Advanced.htm that has all these details, for the computer-savvy.
[url=http://zsnes-docs.sf.net]Official ZSNES Docs[/url] | [url=http://zsnes-docs.sf.net/nsrt]NSRT Guide[/url] | [url=http://endoftransmission.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=394]Using a Wiimote w/ emulators[/url]
Nach
ZSNES Developer
ZSNES Developer
Posts: 3904
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 10:54 pm
Location: Solar powered park bench
Contact:

Post by Nach »

Jipcy wrote:
Deathlike2 wrote:The recommendation here is to have a decent card with good DirectDraw acceleration.
Does the average user know what this means? I get the feeling not. How about if we just say "nVidia GeForce2 or better"? Will this also work for SDL?
Yes, and the requirements are much lower than that. Pretty much any non integrated card should work. Although on Linux, ATI's drivers really really suck.
Jipcy wrote:
Windows: Any DirectSound compatible card should be fine. It is recommended to have one that has DirectSound acceleration (some older cards simply don't have any).
Does the AC'97 standard have anything to do with this? Most people don't really know or care what DirectSound is. How about: "pretty much any sound card manufactured in the last 5 years"? Does this also apply to SDL?
SDL sounds sucks. Any sound card should work, but there could be issues at times.
Deathlike2 wrote: I personally think the CPU recommendation should be upped to the speed of the XBox port (since we technically are targetting it). I think the speed was like 733Mhz or something.
You should be able to run everything right now with much less than that.
May 9 2007 - NSRT 3.4, now with lots of hashing and even more accurate information! Go download it.
_____________
Insane Coding
adventure_of_link
Locksmith of Hyrule
Posts: 3634
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2004 7:49 am
Location: 255.255.255.255
Contact:

Post by adventure_of_link »

Nach wrote:
Thanks for that link, I didn't realize they were planning to use x86 in their upcoming consumer device products.
oh great, more requests to port ZSNES to <insert random small electronic here>

Oh well, at least they'll be using x86.


and thanks AWG
<Nach> so why don't the two of you get your own room and leave us alone with this stupidity of yours?
NSRT here.
Nach
ZSNES Developer
ZSNES Developer
Posts: 3904
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 10:54 pm
Location: Solar powered park bench
Contact:

Post by Nach »

adventure_of_link wrote:
Nach wrote:
Thanks for that link, I didn't realize they were planning to use x86 in their upcoming consumer device products.
oh great, more requests to port ZSNES to <insert random small electronic here>
If it's x86, has GCC, a compatbile C89+ lib, uses DOS or supports DirectX or SDL, then it should be possible. If enough of that is there, then ZSNES is already ported to it.
May 9 2007 - NSRT 3.4, now with lots of hashing and even more accurate information! Go download it.
_____________
Insane Coding
Deathlike2
ZSNES Developer
ZSNES Developer
Posts: 6747
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 6:47 am

Post by Deathlike2 »

Jipcy wrote:OK, so can I remove NT4 from the list of Windows OSs that we support? I guess we theoretically support it, but since you can't get the correct DirectX, then it's not supported, right?
Exactly, unless there is some proof it ran on NT4 with the latest version, it isn't happening anytime soon.
Thinking more about it, I guess it would be best to have separate system requirements for each port, however I don't think we need to break it down farther than that (for example, the three different DOS port sections). We can make a note that special chips have higher requirements, etc.
Deathlike2 wrote:The recommendation here is to have a decent card with good DirectDraw acceleration.
Does the average user know what this means? I get the feeling not. How about if we just say "nVidia GeForce2 or better"? Will this also work for SDL?
Now that I think about it, probably not. However, in dxdiag, if DirectDraw acceleration is available and enabled, then most people know it is there. For SDL, the requirements are radicially different as OpenGL is the optimal choice. Whatever is used by SDL by default is CPU intensive, thus decreasing the potential performance significantly (unless you have a beefy processor). Of course, it should be noted that integrated graphics is a sure way to fail hard (such as Intel graphics).
DOS: Any SB compatible card or sound card that has decent SB emulation. It is recommended to have a SB16 or compatible one or decent SB16 emulation (DOSBox comes to mind).
Is this not what is already there?
Well, thinking about the "(native and emulated)" is probably overboard. However, we really cannot force the user to have an SB16 or compatible card since that is NOT what ZSNES requires. ZSNES can run w/o sound (or a sound card for that matter), and the majority of sound cards will be more or less compatible with the normal SB (they will ALL be forcing/using 8-bit sound by default). SB16 compatiblity only exists if you have a SB16/32/64 for the most part. DOSBox does provide such emulation (it seems to work pretty well), though DOSBox seems kinda slow at times.

I'd like to note that the FAQ question needs slightly better updating, as the only reason VDMSound is suggested is because there is no SB sound emulation provided by 2k/XP by default and thus people have asked why there is no sound (VDMSound works on 2k and XP only). On the other hand, we should also mention that PCI sound cards in general REQUIRE an SB emulation utility running in order for SB emulation is available.
Windows: Any DirectSound compatible card should be fine. It is recommended to have one that has DirectSound acceleration (some older cards simply don't have any).
Does the AC'97 standard have anything to do with this? Most people don't really know or care what DirectSound is. How about: "pretty much any sound card manufactured in the last 5 years"? Does this also apply to SDL?
AC 97 is just a spec for integrated sound. It is unrelated for the most part.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC97

If the hardware in the dxdiag sound tab has no other option other than emulate (the slider at the left most position) then you won't have any acceleration at all. On the other hand, if the type says "emulated", you are certainly not getting acceleration either. I think this helps most people that "need the speed" in their minds anyhow. Not all sound cards have drivers that support Directsound well at all (most OS supplied drivers usually hit this wall).
By the way, all the old information is there, I just insterted the new information. I won't delete anything until we're in agreement. (Obviously, we are using a versioned repository, so it doesn't matter, but I'm just not deleting the stuff out of TRUNK because it's easier.)

EDIT: Also, we could put an additional System Requirements section in Advanced.htm that has all these details, for the computer-savvy.
Maybe... but that's kinda moot for most people. You can certainly dumb it down to a point, but some requirements are relatively specific that only tech people know... especially if you use Linux.

For instance, the DOS port's VESA 2 support requires that Linear Frame Buffer support be available or ZSNES fails to use said VESA 2 mode.
Nach wrote:Yes, and the requirements are much lower than that. Pretty much any non integrated card should work. Although on Linux, ATI's drivers really really suck.
It should be noted that quality OpenGL drivers are needed. Why become retardly slow unnecessarily?
Nach wrote:SDL sounds sucks. Any sound card should work, but there could be issues at times.
I'm still trying to figure out how to fix this problem on my system (the lag sound issue). In any case, quality drivers are needed here anyhow.

Not to get too OT, but code contributions for fixing the sound issue hasn't gone very far... why not make special modes than an all-in-one fix since certain sound cards/driver implementations are either reletively sensitive or outright horrible?

One other point needs to be addressed. I believe you can run ZSNES w/o a sound card, but obviously that's not what you use ZSNES for. IIRC, the code for SDL and the Windows port suggests that you need a sound card that supports 16-bit sound. 99% of sound cards in use today will fit that requirement. The problem is that something like say the original Sound Blaster will fail to work in ZSNES regardless (since it only supports 8-bit sound). It will obviously work with the DOS port, but this caveat should be noted.
Continuing [url=http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?board=13.0]FF4[/url] Research...
Jipcy
Veteran
Posts: 768
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 8:18 pm
Contact:

Post by Jipcy »

OK. Nach, Deathlike and I hashed this out on IRC. It's semi-finalized. Let us know what you think.

Code: Select all

System Requirements

Supported operating systems

Official Ports

    * Win port: Microsoft Windows 95/98/ME/2000/XP
    * SDL port: Linux, BSD, Mac OS X, or XBox running Linux
    * DOS port: Microsoft DOS (may work on other non-MS DOSes)

Un-Official Ports

    * ZsnexBox: Microsoft XBox (native)

CPU architecture requirements

ZSNES absolutely requires a 100% x86-compatible processor. You probably already meet this requirement. Most consumer-grade processors sold by Intel and AMD use the x86 instruction set.

Because much of ZSNES' source code is written in x86 assembly, it will only run on processors that are 100% x86 compatible. "Ports" to other architectures are impossible; we recommend Snes9x as the SNES emulator of choice for portability.

Free space requirements

The program files alone require about 1MB. The amount of disk space required for other files varies greatly. For example, uncompressed ROMs (not included!) require 256KB-6144KB each. Save states require about 270KB each.

Win Port

    * OS: Windows 95/98/ME
          o CPU: Pentium II (or equivalent) 233MHz (500MHz recommended)
          o RAM: 32MB (64MB recommended)
    * OS: Windows 2000/XP
          o CPU: Pentium II (or equivalent) 266MHz (500MHz recommended)
          o RAM: 64MB of RAM (128MB recommended)
    * API: DirectX v8.0a or later must be installed
    * Video: any video card that supports DirectDraw (acceleration recommended)
    * Sound: any sound card that supports DirectSound (acceleration recommended)

SDL Port

    * OS: Linux, BSD, or Mac OS X
    * CPU: 266MHz (500MHz recommended, especially if using X)
    * RAM: 32MB (64MB recommended; more if SDL is compiled to use X)
    * API: SDL v1.20 or later
    * Video: almost any video card will work (hardware OpenGL support and acceleration highly recommended)
    * Sound: any sound card supported by SDL (using ALSA or OSS)

DOS Port

    * OS: Microsoft DOS (some non-MS DOSes may work)
    * CPU: Pentium II (or equivalent) 233MHz
    * RAM: 32MB (minimum of 17MB free, required for loading 48mbit ROMs)
    * Video: VGA card
          o For 16-bit color, an SVGA card with VESA 2 and Linear Frame Buffer support is required.
          o You may be able to use Scitech Display Doctor to enable VESA 2 support on some cards that don't already support it.
    * Sound: Sound Blaster Pro or 100% compatible (SB16 or 100% compatible recommended)

These system requirements assume you are running the DOS port under pure DOS. If you are using the DOS port from within Windows, the CPU and RAM requirements will be the same as for the Win port.
[url=http://zsnes-docs.sf.net]Official ZSNES Docs[/url] | [url=http://zsnes-docs.sf.net/nsrt]NSRT Guide[/url] | [url=http://endoftransmission.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=394]Using a Wiimote w/ emulators[/url]
creaothceann
Seen it all
Posts: 2302
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 5:04 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Post by creaothceann »

Jipcy wrote:

Code: Select all

    * Sound: Sound Blaster Pro or 100% compatible (SB16 or 100% compatible recommended)
Doesn't it work with the previous SB models, too? (Not that anybody would still use them...)

"Microsoft" could be shortened to MS, IMO.
vSNES | Delphi 10 BPLs
bsnes launcher with recent files list
Deathlike2
ZSNES Developer
ZSNES Developer
Posts: 6747
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 6:47 am

Post by Deathlike2 »

creaothceann wrote:
Jipcy wrote:

Code: Select all

    * Sound: Sound Blaster Pro or 100% compatible (SB16 or 100% compatible recommended)
Doesn't it work with the previous SB models, too? (Not that anybody would still use them...)

"Microsoft" could be shortened to MS, IMO.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_Blaster

Probably, but there is no Stereo sound. Most sound cards marketed back in those days are marketed "Sound Blaster Pro" compatible and generally fall under that catagory. I will check the sound code to be sure though...
Continuing [url=http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?board=13.0]FF4[/url] Research...
Jipcy
Veteran
Posts: 768
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 8:18 pm
Contact:

Post by Jipcy »

EDIT: Deathlike beat me.
"Microsoft" could be shortened to MS, IMO.
I'll do that if no one else has a problem with it.
[url=http://zsnes-docs.sf.net]Official ZSNES Docs[/url] | [url=http://zsnes-docs.sf.net/nsrt]NSRT Guide[/url] | [url=http://endoftransmission.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=394]Using a Wiimote w/ emulators[/url]
Deathlike2
ZSNES Developer
ZSNES Developer
Posts: 6747
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 6:47 am

Post by Deathlike2 »

Jipcy wrote:EDIT: Deathlike beat me.
"Microsoft" could be shortened to MS, IMO.
I'll do that if no one else has a problem with it.
Ideally, when you refer to DOS, MS-DOS is usually more preferable. There are other alternative DOSes just as PC-DOS (IBM) and Dr-DOS (Caldera I think). Then there is DOSBox... heh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS-DOS

Instead of saying "non MS-DOSes", you may want to use "other alternative DOSes such as Dr-DOS and PC-DOS may work".

In any case, we could do without the Pro moniker, but you have to note you need an SB Pro or better for Stereo Sound. The SB16 or better is certainly required for 16-bit sound.
Continuing [url=http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?board=13.0]FF4[/url] Research...
Nach
ZSNES Developer
ZSNES Developer
Posts: 3904
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 10:54 pm
Location: Solar powered park bench
Contact:

Post by Nach »

Deathlike2 wrote: and Dr-DOS (Caldera I think).
Digital Research - DOS.

There's also FreeDOS and stuff.
May 9 2007 - NSRT 3.4, now with lots of hashing and even more accurate information! Go download it.
_____________
Insane Coding
Deathlike2
ZSNES Developer
ZSNES Developer
Posts: 6747
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 6:47 am

Post by Deathlike2 »

Hmmm, after discussing some Linux audio stuff with Aerdan... emulated OSS (or ALSA using emulated OSS) is a bad thing. Having it accelerated is certainly recommended or you will have the audio problems as mentioned by many Linux users (yes... lag and static is bad). If anyone wants to add comments to the lag/static issue in Linux, feel free to add.
Continuing [url=http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?board=13.0]FF4[/url] Research...
Post Reply