Improving the sound engine

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Gonzo
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Re: Improving the sound engine

Post by Gonzo »

wow, it's been a while since I've seen so much fly over someones head.
adventure_of_link
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Re: Improving the sound engine

Post by adventure_of_link »

troll, or someone's botting.
<Nach> so why don't the two of you get your own room and leave us alone with this stupidity of yours?
NSRT here.
Romeo
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Re: Improving the sound engine

Post by Romeo »

Bsnes has been out a LONG fucking time, I've been hearing about it for over a year.
Gonzo
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Re: Improving the sound engine

Post by Gonzo »

*sigh*

Question: what was the date the day before you posted:
Romeo wrote:ZSNES has the best sound emulation I have ever seen. Snes9x blows. Never tried Bsnes.
Answer: April the 1st. April Fool's Day.


Why should you have posted it on this date?

Because you are a fool.


There, have you caught up now?
kode54
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Re: Improving the sound engine

Post by kode54 »

And the joke has less to do with bsnes than it does with zsnes, which has fairly bad, inaccurate sound emulation. Current Snes9x is closer to the real thing. Bsnes is binary accurate to the digital output of the console's sound hardware.
deepblue22
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Re: Improving the sound engine

Post by deepblue22 »

Unfortunately, my PC is not strong enough for bsnes. :| Therefore I deal with ZSNES.

I have an issue with multiple sounds of the music in Donkey Kong Country 3 and I don't know if it's ZSNES or sound card related: Sometimes one sound disappears and I don't hear it anymore. This happens for example when I jump into a barrel and fire out of this barrel or temporarily pause the game via the pause key of the controller. After some time I hear the missing sound again and everything is alright now. So it seems that some sounds will be temporarily swallowed up. Does anyone know why?
grinvader
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Re: Improving the sound engine

Post by grinvader »

The snes only had 8 channels, so many games with complex music have to kill one or two channels for sound effects when they happen. It can have a notable impact on played music. The used channel doesn't get its 'normal' output back until the next key on event in the partition, which can be longer than expected.
皆黙って俺について来い!!

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<jmr> bsnes has the most accurate wiki page but it takes forever to load (or something)
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Romeo
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Re: Improving the sound engine

Post by Romeo »

Gonzo wrote:There, have you caught up now?
Doesn't matter. If I crack a joke, I'm being a troll prick. When others crack a joke, they are being cute and funny and I'd have to be dense not to catch on. I'd rather just avoid casual socialization with you basement dwellers, period. You aren't capable of it, even if we're both losers who play outdated video games that stopped being sold long ago. :)
Gil_Hamilton
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Re: Improving the sound engine

Post by Gil_Hamilton »

Romeo wrote:
Gonzo wrote:There, have you caught up now?
Doesn't matter. If I crack a joke, I'm being a troll prick. When others crack a joke, they are being cute and funny and I'd have to be dense not to catch on. I'd rather just avoid casual socialization with you basement dwellers, period. You aren't capable of it, even if we're both losers who play outdated video games that stopped being sold long ago. :)
Hey, I resent that remark!
I don't HAVE a basement to dwell in!
Squall_Leonhart wrote:
You have your 2s, 4s, 8s, 16s, 32s, 64s, and 128s(crash course in binary counting!). But no 1s.
DirectInput represents all bits, not just powers of 2 in an axis.
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Romeo
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Re: Improving the sound engine

Post by Romeo »

Hey, I resent that remark!
I don't HAVE a basement to dwell in!
"Prison is in the mind".
deepblue22
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Re: Improving the sound engine

Post by deepblue22 »

grinvader wrote:The used channel doesn't get its 'normal' output back until the next key on event in the partition
Yeah, this makes sense, because when I move further and thus a new sound effect appears, the normal output is back. Is it possible to eliminate this so that at any time all sound effects are present, or is this a too complex thing?

Basements are cool. And dweller can be found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2rXC4MeNAQ :D
paulguy
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Re: Improving the sound engine

Post by paulguy »

It's programmed in to the game, so it'd need to be patched out against a snes with more sound channels.
Maybe these people were born without that part of their brain that lets you try different things to see if they work better. --Retsupurae
Gil_Hamilton
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Re: Improving the sound engine

Post by Gil_Hamilton »

Romeo wrote:
Hey, I resent that remark!
I don't HAVE a basement to dwell in!
"Prison is in the mind".
"Fear is the mind killer."
Squall_Leonhart wrote:
You have your 2s, 4s, 8s, 16s, 32s, 64s, and 128s(crash course in binary counting!). But no 1s.
DirectInput represents all bits, not just powers of 2 in an axis.
KHDownloads
Romeo
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Re: Improving the sound engine

Post by Romeo »

Gil_Hamilton wrote:"Fear is the mind killer."
I harbor no fear.
grinvader
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Re: Improving the sound engine

Post by grinvader »

No, that's not how it goes. The jabbar kills you.

For reference,
I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.
皆黙って俺について来い!!

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<jmr> bsnes has the most accurate wiki page but it takes forever to load (or something)
Pantheon: Gideon Zhi | CaitSith2 | Nach | kode54
deepblue22
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Re: Improving the sound engine

Post by deepblue22 »

paulguy wrote:It's programmed in to the game, so it'd need to be patched out against a snes with more sound channels.
Sounds like a sound channel extension and a difficult task. :)
king_harkanian
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Re: Improving the sound engine

Post by king_harkanian »

deepblue22 wrote:Unfortunately, my PC is not strong enough for bsnes. :| Therefore I deal with ZSNES.
Snes9x 1.53 sounds as good as Bsnes (thanks to the Sony SPC700 emulator core) but the system requirements are a lot more lenient. You could try that, too. Lavos' scream never sounded better!
Romeo wrote:ZSNES has the best sound emulation I have ever seen. Snes9x blows. Never tried Bsnes.
That's the best joke I've heard all year! :mrgreen:
deepblue22
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Improving the sound engine

Post by deepblue22 »

I really have to say, I like the "Simulate Surround Sound" switch. It adds more atmosphere. Good work!
However, I miss the attention to detail like the one from SNESamp with settings "High quality" and "Sample Rate: 48000".
I loaded some *.spc samples from Donkey Kong Country with Winamp and the SNESamp plugin and compared the sound to ZSNES. The "Simulate Surround Sound" switch from ZSNES together with a more SNESamp-like sound (in terms of clarity and sensitivity) would be super, ...no..., uber. :-)
Truth Unknown
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Re: Improving the sound engine

Post by Truth Unknown »

So just re-sampling and inverting the left channel will create the greatest sound processing ever? To be honest, the improvement of such a thing is relatively minor. Yes you can hear a difference, most do hear a difference, but in the end it's still compressed samples recorded at a low bit-resolution and sample-rate. If there was anything interesting to be done, it would be allowing the sample-sets to be replaced with higher quality samples, advanced audio processing effects and maybe channel manipulation across a z-plane for 3D audio (SNESamp somewhat does this with the quad-channel mode with echos).

Oh yeah, thanks for the necro-thread I obviously overlooked right now.
deepblue22
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Re: Improving the sound engine

Post by deepblue22 »

If "Simulate Surround Sound" is "inverting the left channel", then one has had a good idea. I like it. Everything sounds more atmospheric.
Who made this "Simulate Surround Sound"? Pharaos? grinvader?

I also tried Snes9X, but the sound of ZSNES sounds better to my ears. I don't wanna miss the "Simulate Surround Sound" switch. So I'll stick with ZSNES. With ZSNES, the sound of Donkey Kong is like never before. If the instruments would sound yet clearer and the dynamic of sound yet closer to like it was intended (tempo, loud, quiet, decay, things like that), it would be an improvement. :)
kode54
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Re: Improving the sound engine

Post by kode54 »

I wrote it. It was based on my weak understanding of how the SRS 3D hardware effect worked. And it went through several iterations.

It does not invert one of the channels like many silly surround filters do. Rather, it calculates the average of the left and right channels, subtracts that from each channel, then subtracts the result of that from the opposite channels, in an attempt to increase the stereo separation.

I suppose I could have done it differently, such as increasing the magnitude of L-R and adding/subtracting that with the original L+R.
deepblue22
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Re: Improving the sound engine

Post by deepblue22 »

Thanks a lot for that. It definitely sounds better with it.

Hmm.., as I see, you are not on the ZSNES ABOUT list. I only see PHARAOS, TEUF, GRINVADER... No kode54. Has somebody forgotten to put you on the list? :)
kode54 wrote:Rather, it calculates the average of the left and right channels, subtracts...
Whatever. Good work! :D
kode54
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Re: Improving the sound engine

Post by kode54 »

I am on the contributors list at zsnes.com.
deepblue22
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Re: Improving the sound engine

Post by deepblue22 »

It wouldn't have been a bad thing if you were on the ZSNES ABOUT list. Well, maybe for v2.0 then. :mrgreen:

I would state: SNES sounded damn good. ZSNES sounds better. (At least as for "Simulate Surround Sound" with "Cubic Spline") Image
One could call it SNES extended. :lol:
Gil_Hamilton
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Re: Improving the sound engine

Post by Gil_Hamilton »

One could also call it OH GOD MY EARS! after stumbling across one of the audio-glitched games. :P
Squall_Leonhart wrote:
You have your 2s, 4s, 8s, 16s, 32s, 64s, and 128s(crash course in binary counting!). But no 1s.
DirectInput represents all bits, not just powers of 2 in an axis.
KHDownloads
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