How well does Link to the Past work on ZSNES

[odditude]

Some things just don’t translate well to English from Japanese, and this can be viewed as a study in dead literal translation... Other than that, I do have to say that the menu font is a freaking eyesore.

QFT.

[Yuber]

You mean the RPGOne FF6 menu? The font is a bit rough but I do like how it lists the classes of all the characters and overall it doesn't bother me since the dialogue is completely uncensored and much better than Woolsey's, but that comes down to personal taste. I don't know Japanese worth a shit but I played the original US version when I was younger but prefer the RPGOne hack; I want the game as raw and uncensored as possible and I think it flows better than the GBA or the original SNES translation. The GBA font is actually worse and the dialogue is still censored somewhat.

However, the Doctor L localization of CT modified from the Compendium hack is the best RT I've ever played of any game. Basically it's what the US version should've been, and all the awkward -sans and -samas as well as grammatical errors and general awkwardness are modified from the CC hack to make it more of an uncensored westernized RT rather than a purely literal translation. I played through the CC hack followed by the Dr L hack and it's completely different. It's like the best of the original US version plus the best of Compendium's hack. No font screwiness either.

Wouldn't you love complete HD remakes of both FF6 and CT? As much as I enjoy FF7 those 2 games deserve remakes a lot more, but an FF7 remake would sell like fucking crazy.

[Gil_Hamilton]

I downloaded a bug fixed version where vanish/death doesn't work, you can't auto level at a certain river etc.

There's no evidence either of those are actually bugs.
Well, maybe. Vanish/doom combo does two things. It makes doom auto-hit AND it over-rides immunity. Which part is changed affects whether it should rightly be considered a bug fix.

And whether an exploitable quirk that most people never find out about is really the primary concern next to things like the game never uses several primary stats, causing many items and spells to have non-functional special effects, or many monsters self-destruct since their immunities break their innate healing capabilities... well, that's a different question.

It's totally uncensored but the goofy Ted Woolsey shit has been taken out; I just find it to be a better experience since it's FF6 how it was meant to be played in its uncensored glory.

FF6 is not censored. And there is nothing whatsoever wrong with Ted Woolsey's work.
OH GOD, THE OLD MAN IS DRINKING HARD CIDER INSTEAD OF RICE WINE! SAVE US FROM THE SOCCER MOMS!

The original US version is censored to shit

[citation needed]

No, seriously, document one meaningful instance of censorship. One single instance where it matters even the slightest bit that they MIGHT have made a change, a single solitary example of an actual problem with the text, a lone circumstance where those 2x2 sprite nipples actually carried an iota of weight.


And don't make a case that use the words cider or cafe. Aside from being completely pointless even if they WERE valid instances of censorship... there is alcoholic cider as well as cafes that serve alcohol. I won't deny that these words were likely chosen INTENTIONALLY to slip alcohol usage past Nintendo of America, but that changes nothing.
Ignorance is not the same thing as censorship. See also: Spoony bard.



FF6 is not like FF4. The translation is largely competent, the game largely unedited, and everything was treated with a good deal of concern for not messing it up.

[Yuber]

It's not nearly as censored as FF4, and I'm winging it here. Although some parts slipped though(like that clown saying KILL THEM! on a certain floating body) references to death were edited(put to sleep etc), and of course all the damns, shits(think I remember several of those) etc. PEARL instead of Holy? HAHAHA! It's nothing huge like Cid in FF4 but the small stuff like PEARL instead of Holy and Doom instead of Death(Blitz=Deathblow) are rather silly. I'm playing through the RPGOne hack on and off now so if I find some parts that were BADLY censored in the US release that are totally different I'll post them.

I'm really picky when it comes to censorship(I prefer zero) so small changes make a big difference to me. Also Cyan's speech is much better but that's down to personal taste. It's been quite a while since I've played this and I'm only at the Veldt, so I'll mention more later.

edit: I like the name "great demon war" more than war of the magi. In Chrono Trigger, the mystics were supposed to be called demons as well. Again, lots of small stuff makes a big difference to me. You seem to love nitpicking my posts; are you hitting on me, sillybuns?



Minor stuff like that, cyan saying the current is fast.

Cyan getting hit on, sex humor censored in US version:

[Gil_Hamilton]

You... do know damn and shit aren't japanse words, right? You're arguing that they represented strong language incorrectly by not using two specific english expletives.

Demon is, in my book, almost always a poor choice of translation, regardless of the specific "magical being" term used(and if there's one thing anime and games has taught me, it's that Japan has a much more nuanced vocabulary for such situations).
It carries inherent connotations in the western world that are rarely intended in the source material. For one, it implies that the creatures in question are inherently evil, which is not the case in either FF6 OR Chrono Trigger.

Also: Doom is a way cooler spell name than death. And a bit of poetic license helps keep words like kill and dead from getting really monotonous.

If I recall(it's been several years), Cyan responds quite similarly in FF3US, he just uses his flowery language. I seem to recall him using the word 'harlot'.
If I'm not pulling shit out of my ass... then just because he doesn't use the word 'slut' doesn't mean the innuendo was lost.


The vast majority of your argument is in fact a complaint of style, not of censorship. You prefer a more literal translation with a liberal sprinkling of expletives. That's fine.
But don't claim that your stylistic preference is undoing a horrible butchery that never happened.
They put hot pants on the siren summon, and renamed the holy element to pearl. That's about it.

The whole "Ted Woolsey is a hack and FF3 is a mockery of the holy japanese version just look at the number oh god everything is all wrong" thing was tired ten years ago, and time hasn't made it a stronger case.

[nintendo_nerd]

It's not nearly as censored as FF4, and I'm winging it here. Although some parts slipped though(like that clown saying KILL THEM! on a certain floating body) references to death were edited(put to sleep etc), and of course all the damns, shits(think I remember several of those) etc. PEARL instead of Holy? HAHAHA! It's nothing huge like Cid in FF4 but the small stuff like PEARL instead of Holy and Doom instead of Death(Blitz=Deathblow) are rather silly. I'm playing through the RPGOne hack on and off now so if I find some parts that were BADLY censored in the US release that are totally different I'll post them.

I'm really picky when it comes to censorship(I prefer zero) so small changes make a big difference to me. Also Cyan's speech is much better but that's down to personal taste. It's been quite a while since I've played this and I'm only at the Veldt, so I'll mention more later.

edit: I like the name "great demon war" more than war of the magi. In Chrono Trigger, the mystics were supposed to be called demons as well. Again, lots of small stuff makes a big difference to me. You seem to love nitpicking my posts; are you hitting on me, sillybuns?



Minor stuff like that, cyan saying the current is fast.

Cyan getting hit on, sex humor censored in US version:

Japanese doesn't have those swear words, like at all. The tone conveyed in words like クソ and チクショウ (kuso and chikushou) have no real English equivalent, but the convey contempt or hostility towards a noun. Ted Woolsey didn't do that bad of job all things considered; he had a very tight schedule, and had no help from anyone else, he did it by himself. Yes, he uses some archaic English that no one really uses today, and censored "death", "holy", etc, but who gives a damn? If you really want to see an overly censored/poorly translated RPG, play Breath of Fire 2. If you're a purist, BOF2 is one game that will make you cry. You also want to keep in mind that Nintendo of America had some very strict translation guidelines as to avoid offending people. Can you imagine if the warring Triad kept its original name of Jihad? Yeah, that would go well I think.

Gil Hamilton wasn't being nit picky at all, he was showing you your fallacies in your arguments about censorship and so-called mistranslated texts. There simply was no way for the game be released uncensored during the 90's. And yes, I have played the Japanese version of 6 (and understand it pretty well) and the English version isn't that bad at all.

Reasons:

-Snes had limited memory, couldn't fit all names of spells/characters, etc (only way that can be done is if you hack the ROM and alter a chunk of the ASM)
- Religious references had to be censored (Jihad, holy, death, etc)
- Woolsey only had a couple of months or so to translate it and no one else helped

In essence, if you think people are still bitching about him doing a "bad" job, do yourself a favor and actually compare the Japanese version to the official translation instead of the literal English translation. The original had its quirks and a certain aura that many came to enjoy, in the literal version, most of that quirkiness/vibe was lost in translation. Don't like it, either learn ASM hacking and retranslate the game, or stop being nit picky about it.

[Yuber]

I never claimed to know Japanese, but I thought that version was supposed to be a literal translation; I do like the curse words added considering their situations in the game though. Also Gil, I'm pretty sure you're right about the "harlot" comment, but when he just blurted it out and called her a slut it made me laugh harder. It's more of a stylistic thing rather than concern over pure accuracy; I just like the more blunt, literal dialogue of the RPGOne translation over Woolsey's. I don't really care if the team used a few more curse words than they should have/mistranslated a few other things; the RPGOne version is more my thing, that's all. It IS less censored as well. I love little details like listing the characters' classes in the menu also.

Also in CT, the "mystics" generally do act like mythological demons so calling them such seems appropriate considering their general behavior and innate magical abilities. The Doctor L RT is a cross between the US original and Chrono Compendium's seemingly more literal translation; it's what the localization for CT US should've been imo. I love the style and it feels like it was professionally translated. Chrono's "Lightning" is translated to "Heaven" which I like, and it's "Sky" in the CC hack. I have no idea which is more accurate but taste wise, I like Heaven.

I criticized about nitpicking earlier because you(both of you now) seemed to take my stylistic preferences a little too seriously. What are your favorite versions of FF6 and/or CT? Either of those games being remade in HD or at least FF4DS style on the 3DS would be a dream come true.


EDIT: I'm definitely aware of Nintendo's ridiculous censorship policies back then; I was 10 when FF6 was released and I'll never forget the 1st Mortal Kombat...man that was atrocious. Woolsey DID do a great job considering his limitations with both FF6 and CT, but I prefer those 2 fan translations. My #2 favorite fan trans. next to the Chrono RT is J2e's FF4j translation; it left things like spoony bard in and it's just really awesome in general. Cid is hysterical.

[Gil_Hamilton]

I never claimed to know Japanese, but I thought that version was supposed to be a literal translation; I do like the curse words added considering their situations in the game though.

Well, it's not literal is my point.
Japanese curses don't directly correspond to english ones.
I'm prone to suspecting them of adding extra profanity as justification for their censorship complaints. It would not be the first example I've seen.

Also Gil, I'm pretty sure you're right about the "harlot" comment, but when he just blurted it out and called her a slut it made me laugh harder.

See, most of the humor in that scene comes from Cyan's reserved nature.
That same reserved nature makes it hard for me to see him calling a random stranger a "slut."
He speaketh a fairer version of the Queen's language than us rowdy savages, and such harsh epithets are not befitting a man of his breeding.

I criticized about nitpicking earlier because you(both of you now) seemed to take my stylistic preferences a little too seriously. What are your favorite versions of FF6 and/or CT?

Original retail. I looked at the retranslations, the justifications, and examples of what was changed, and found no reason to go through a retranslation of either one. Particularly in FF6's case.

I find no problems with the style used, and actually prefer the more stylish manner of the official translations to the bluntness I've been told to expect from the fan translations.

I'm aware that there is some world lore lost in Chrono Trigger. Most of it being inconsequential until Chrono Cross rolled around and my jokes about Kid not being a natural blonde didn't work.



As I said, I have no problem with your stylistic preferences, though they are not mine.
I have a problem with the insistence that the US release of either game was a censored hackjob.

EDIT: I'm definitely aware of Nintendo's ridiculous censorship policies back then; I was 10 when FF6 was released and I'll never forget the 1st Mortal Kombat...man that was atrocious.

The bigger problem with Mortal Kombat was that it was a sluggish and unresponsive port, though the outrage over the four changed fatalities DID result in a massive relaxation of Nintendo's traditional censorship rules starting with Mortal Kombat 2.
Amusingly, at least one of the new less-violent fatalities got adopted into the mainline series. The one where Sub-Zero freezes someone and then shatters them became a "regular" fatality for MK2. Just with more innards.

Woolsey DID do a great job considering his limitations with both FF6 and CT, but I prefer those 2 fan translations. My #2 favorite fan trans. next to the Chrono RT is J2e's FF4j translation; it left things like spoony bard in and it's just really awesome in general. Cid is hysterical.

He did a great job.
Not a great job considering the limitations. That implies it's not very good, but he did the best he could.


And FF2/4, of course, is a whole different ballgame.
Hell, Square knew it themselves. They handed out FF2 cartridges as an example of how not to do it when the time came to do their next big game.

"You spoony bard" is, incidentally, one of my favorite lines in the series. In no small part because the internet is outraged over a perceived non-sequitor when it's a legitimate insult that's appropriate to the setting and character.

[grinvader]

The whole "Ted Woolsey is (...) wrong" thing was tired fifteen years ago

welcome to oldfagville, population: us.

[Yuber]

Other than the stylistic preferences I mentioned earlier, I've played the originals so many times that I really enjoy playing different interpretations of those games, and finding onee I prefer over the official releases is just an extra bonus. Spoony IS appropriate in that context, but it was absolutely out of nowhere and I was a little kid when I played FF4 for the first time so it made me laugh REALLY hard.

As for the curse words, again I know ZERO Japanese but when I watch subbed anime It's really common for "kuso" to be translated to "damn/damnit" and "chikushou" to be translated to "shit". I'm not sure what English words would be most appropriate to express those feelings but I'm guessing you could use softer language as well. Considering how serious the events in FF6 are, I prefer the curse words. It makes it easier for me personally to empathize with the character because in those ridiculous situations I'd be cursing up a storm...well I'd be dead but you get my point.

I've played a bit of it to test it but I'm getting ready to play FF4DS after I'm done with FF6 and CT. I've heard it's ridiculously hard compared to the SNESj version, so the last boss will probably just destroy me unless I'm at like level 80. I've beaten the SNESj, FF2US, and PSP CC versions but I doubt that's gonna prepare me since it's so damn different gameplay wise. I love the PSP version of the original but imo TAY doesn't count. FF4 PSP(and yes I know it's an enhanced version of the GBA port) is almost like a cross between FF4's story and a sped up, highly modified version of FF6's battle system being able to change turns and everything. Pissed me off that the final boss's death scene got nerfed though.

EDIT: on topic for a second, I beat LTTP on ZSNES a few years ago and I don't remember any significant problems, just a few sound glitches

other edits: added/corrected some stuff

[odditude]

so wait, after necroposting on a 4-month-old thread, you're actually responding to the original post 2 weeks later..?

make some room for me over there in oldfagville.

[Yuber]

lol, I didn't even notice how long ago the last post was made before I responded. This board isn't exactly active and I'm used to responding to threads further down the list. Sorry about that, but I am enjoying the current discussion.

edit: Forgot to respond to Gil's MK related stuff. When I got it as a kid, I noticed the fucked up timing compared to the arcade MK1 right off the bat, and the "sweat"(lol) was simply the corn chunk on the shit sundae. I really love the SNES MK2 port too, but even that surprisingly good port is a bit off when it comes to timing & speed if you compare it to the Genesis, 32x and especially the arcade version on MAME. MK1 was VASTLY slower and more sluggish on the SNES and there was even tons of input lag. I do notice slight slowdown in MK2 but I'll always love that port; I find it better than the 32X, Saturn, and PSX ports too. The 32X version was incredibly rushed but if they had taken more time with it, it could've been practically arcade-perfect.

It's kinda funny how the SNES MK2 has more voice samples than the 32X version, and the early CD based versions were missing some too, most likely to speed up loading. The AI is also a bit different in the SNES port than the arcade and I find it generally easier, which isn't a bad thing because the arcade AI is just flat out annoying unless you have all their responses memorized. The arcade AI kinda reminds me of those Red Arremers in Ghouls n Ghosts.

[nintendo_nerd]

I never claimed to know Japanese, but I thought that version was supposed to be a literal translation; I do like the curse words added considering their situations in the game though. Also Gil, I'm pretty sure you're right about the "harlot" comment, but when he just blurted it out and called her a slut it made me laugh harder. It's more of a stylistic thing rather than concern over pure accuracy; I just like the more blunt, literal dialogue of the RPGOne translation over Woolsey's. I don't really care if the team used a few more curse words than they should have/mistranslated a few other things; the RPGOne version is more my thing, that's all. It IS less censored as well. I love little details like listing the characters' classes in the menu also.

Also in CT, the "mystics" generally do act like mythological demons so calling them such seems appropriate considering their general behavior and innate magical abilities. The Doctor L RT is a cross between the US original and Chrono Compendium's seemingly more literal translation; it's what the localization for CT US should've been imo. I love the style and it feels like it was professionally translated. Chrono's "Lightning" is translated to "Heaven" which I like, and it's "Sky" in the CC hack. I have no idea which is more accurate but taste wise, I like Heaven.

I criticized about nitpicking earlier because you(both of you now) seemed to take my stylistic preferences a little too seriously. What are your favorite versions of FF6 and/or CT? Either of those games being remade in HD or at least FF4DS style on the 3DS would be a dream come true.


EDIT: I'm definitely aware of Nintendo's ridiculous censorship policies back then; I was 10 when FF6 was released and I'll never forget the 1st Mortal Kombat...man that was atrocious. Woolsey DID do a great job considering his limitations with both FF6 and CT, but I prefer those 2 fan translations. My #2 favorite fan trans. next to the Chrono RT is J2e's FF4j translation; it left things like spoony bard in and it's just really awesome in general. Cid is hysterical.

Chrono Trigger...my only beef with that was the way Frog spoke; it was anachronistic. He spoke more rudely/had a lot more slang in the Japanese version. For Final Fantasy 6, I prefer the original translation (or the GBA version), the fan translation was too literal and much of the charm was lost. Chrono Trigger, the Japanese version because some of the dialogue I found to be more humorous (esp. Frog/Glenn's dialog)

[Yuber]

Bet it's nice to know enough Japanese to play the original versions of those games. The Doctor L CT hack is my favorite version though(I even prefer it over the DS port) because the CC hack was very awkward, had a few spelling/grammatical errors and it kept all the -sans -samas etc. The former feels like a professionally done, totally uncensored localization and I absolutely love playing through it.

I like the FF6 GBA port on emus with the sound/color fixes, but all the slowdown(and messed up sound) during battles annoys me a bit, especially during long fights with enemies that use high level magic. It feels like they added a few new things and rushed the hell out of it, but I agree that the new translation(and portraits) is a nice touch. The blunt nature of the RPGOne translation is more my thing though, and if you want extra content there are a ridiculous amount of ROM hacks for FF3US that add super bosses, modify gameplay etc.

In the FF3nova hack I mentioned earlier, there's a superboss(replaces Hidon) named Genesis that uses Ultima's sprite and it's almost like the Ruby or Emerald weapon of that hack. I think I remember it having around 700k HP, lots of attacks that do 9999 to everyone and he's generally just fucking cheap. It's been years since I've played that version but I think you get the Illumina or Ragnarok for killing it. My biggest problem with Nova is that they messed up the translation(took Woolsey's trans and added curse words), but the challenge is really intense. I love how ridiculously strong the final boss is.