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Solutions to Poor Performance in Windows 7 to 10 
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Post Solutions to Poor Performance in Windows 7 to 10
Alternate Title: Windows 7, 8, 8.1, 10, DirectDraw, ZSNES and You
FUN FACT: ZSNES, a favorite emulator of many, uses DirectDraw.

What is DirectDraw?
It's a deprecated graphical rendering interface that modern versions of Windows only offer basic support for.

Why does DirectDraw matter on modern Windows versions?
Performance primarily, causing poor frame-rates and graphical anomalies from the basic support. Making the use of ZSNES difficult for emulating those wonderful classics powered by Japanese hardware.

What can I do to better play my classics?
One, use an alternative emulator, such as SNES9x, which has moved on to the newer OpenGL and Direct3D graphical interfaces of modern Windows.
Two, use a wrapper for DirectDraw, such as DXGL (in Development) that translates and emulates DirectDraw features to OpenGL.
Three, use the wrapper dgVoodoo2 (also in Development), this translates and emulates Glide and DirectX (DirectDraw and Direct3D up to version 8) to DirectX 11.
Four, wait for the next version of ZSNES, which will be a major version change. This is still under development and there is no expected release date.
A possible five, if you're playing full-screen, minimizing and restoring ZSNES may clear up performance and scaling quality issues.

What can I do to help ZSNES Development?
Choose one of the following:
- Nothing.
- Wait, which consists of doing nothing and not whining about it.
- Pay the coders a living wage.

I have a toaster!
Yes, you do.



Figured a nice topic for some the problems playing ZSNES nowadays was needed. Could use some ZNES details later.

ninja edit: deprecated, not depreciated. while it might have decreased in value, that's not what you're trying to say here :p
cheapskate edit: might as well offer every possibility, lel


Last edited by Truth Unknown on Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:49 am, edited 8 times in total.



Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:08 am
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Post Re: Windows 7, 8, 8.1, DirectDraw, ZSNES and You
stickied for great justice.

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Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:59 pm
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Post Re: Windows 7, 8, 8.1, DirectDraw, ZSNES and You
lelel ib4 zsnes v2 kickstarter

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Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:35 pm
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Post Re: Windows 7, 8, 8.1, DirectDraw, ZSNES and You
I know I gave the OP permission to start this sticky, but uhhhh... I remember kode54 posted this awhile back:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=49506

Whatever became of this?

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Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:24 am
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Post Re: Windows 7, 8, 8.1, DirectDraw, ZSNES and You
It mostly was about how DirectDraw's output was changed, not exactly on how well it runs and how to deal with it. Unfortunately it seems to be tied to GPU drivers still. My 7850 with the 13.11 Beta 9.2 driver uses Nearest Neighbor on windowed and going full-screen gives an error.


Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:14 am
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Post Re: Windows 7, 8, 8.1, DirectDraw, ZSNES and You
All I get is stuttering on ZSNES after upgrade to windows 8.1 Worked fine on 7. Use as my backup if my main SNES emulator can't run a game.

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Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:25 am
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Post Re: Windows 7, 8, 8.1, DirectDraw, ZSNES and You
Like the software, but it does suck when you upgrade windows, it screws the program up

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Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:42 am
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Post Re: Windows 7, 8, 8.1, DirectDraw, ZSNES and You
Found an interesting solution by accident the other day, when you're full-screen with a poor frame-rate and the scaled pixels are nearest neighbor/point filtering. Just simply minimizing and restoring the window brings the frame-rate to normal and the pixels are as uniform as you can get with a bilinear filter pass. No idea if this effects any other computer setup, but I added it to the list of solutions.


Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:24 am
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Post Re: Windows 7, 8, 8.1, DirectDraw, ZSNES and You
Truth Unknown wrote:
No idea if this effects any other computer setup

Likely.

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Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:58 pm
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Post Re: Windows 7, 8, 8.1, DirectDraw, ZSNES and You
Hello guys, I have one question - I had in my childhood a snes console and I destroyed it but I have the games - how could I copy games to pc computer?

It is legal to use rooms?

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Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:47 am
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Post Re: Windows 7, 8, 8.1, DirectDraw, ZSNES and You
a) You need a copier. The games you want to dump determine the specific features of the copier you need.

b) It's always been pretty gray-area-ish to dump your own cartridges, and it's still illegal to download copyrighted material.

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Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:32 pm
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Post Re: Windows 7, 8, 8.1, DirectDraw, ZSNES and You
hypothetically, if I were in your situation I'd just dl the rom files of said games because it'd be a lot less troublesome than dumping them yourself. Different paths, same destination and all that bullshit.


Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:00 am
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Post Re: Windows 7, 8, 8.1, DirectDraw, ZSNES and You
aceofkings, for using your SNES Cartridges, something like the Retrode should be a good solution. http://www.retrode.org/ Unfortunately production has stopped, so if they are sold out you'll be out of luck there. Although, I think you can build one yourself, but I don't know the details on that.


Yuber, while less troublesome initially, that's quite illegal for most of the world as I understand.


Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:13 am
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Post Re: Windows 7, 8, 8.1, DirectDraw, ZSNES and You
True, but everyone's who's ever used an emulator has downloaded ROMs, and rather than dumping your own games, you could hypothetically spend 15 minutes or so downloading the same ROMs you intend to dump with the exact same results. You're absolutely right from a legal standpoint, but both scenarios have the same end result. This is an emulation forum; every single person here has "partaken". Lots of old games are basically abandonware anyway.

Plus, there are countless Japanese games that are only playable in English through emulation & fan translations. Plenty of obscure games aren't even available through legal downloadable channels(Suikoden 2 for example) & not everyone can afford to buy ridiculously rare, expensive old games.


Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:38 am
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Post Re: Windows 7, 8, 8.1, DirectDraw, ZSNES and You
I'm actually surprised there hasn't been an "abandonware" archive for console games like there is for PC games. Because yes, like all those old PC games, a lot of these SNES ROMs and PSX ISOs are forgotten IP from companies that don't even exist anymore. There's absolutely zero danger of anyone ever coming after you for posting them publicly.

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Sun Mar 23, 2014 2:02 pm
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Post Re: Windows 7, 8, 8.1, DirectDraw, ZSNES and You
Yuber wrote:
Lots of old games are basically abandonware anyway.

Indeed. Many are even unreleasable, either because the rights are too complicated, or just because no one actually KNOWS who owns them.

Sadly, abandonware isn't a legal classification. It just means "ethical piracy."

Quote:
Plus, there are countless Japanese games that are only playable in English through emulation & fan translations. Plenty of obscure games aren't even available through legal downloadable channels(Suikoden 2 for example) & not everyone can afford to buy ridiculously rare, expensive old games.

And here's where we run into the age-old entitlement problem.
Access to video games is not a RIGHT, and this is a fairly lousy defense for piracy.

(Tangentally, R-Type Δ WAS available through legal outlets on modern platforms, but irem decided to take it back down for some reason. Current availability is no indicator of future availability.)


blackmyst wrote:
I'm actually surprised there hasn't been an "abandonware" archive for console games like there is for PC games. Because yes, like all those old PC games, a lot of these SNES ROMs and PSX ISOs are forgotten IP from companies that don't even exist anymore. There's absolutely zero danger of anyone ever coming after you for posting them publicly.

Underground Gamer hosted console games.
I think at one point Cherry ROMs was requesting specific titles when they got legal notices and only taking down titles that were SPECIFICALLY requested.

Not ENTIRELY the same as hand-picking "dead" titles for archival, but...

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You have your 2s, 4s, 8s, 16s, 32s, 64s, and 128s(crash course in binary counting!). But no 1s.
DirectInput represents all bits, not just powers of 2 in an axis.


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Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:00 pm
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Post Re: Windows 7, 8, 8.1, DirectDraw, ZSNES and You
Ahh I forgot about fruity site (CR). Yeah I remember that. (LOL it's still censored, ahh nostalgic)

If I had the time, maybe I'd think about setting up an HOTU-like archive for console games, myself. I think it'd be cool, but alas, I've got life to worry about.

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Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:25 pm
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Post Re: Windows 7, 8, 8.1, DirectDraw, ZSNES and You
Yuber wrote:
True, but everyone's who's ever used an emulator has downloaded ROMs, and rather than dumping your own games, you could hypothetically spend 15 minutes or so downloading the same ROMs you intend to dump with the exact same results. You're absolutely right from a legal standpoint, but both scenarios have the same end result. This is an emulation forum; every single person here has "partaken". Lots of old games are basically abandonware anyway.

I never denied that it has been done, all I wanted to do is reinforce legality about downloading ROMs. I did neglect to mention legal and public domain ROMs created for SNES and SNES Emulators, although I forget where the places to look, googling Public Domain SNES ROMs should pull them up.

Yuber wrote:
Plus, there are countless Japanese games that are only playable in English through emulation & fan translations. Plenty of obscure games aren't even available through legal downloadable channels(Suikoden 2 for example) & not everyone can afford to buy ridiculously rare, expensive old games.

Unfortunately, as Gil put it just a poor excuse to pirate.
Fortunately though, Game Companies are getting better about re-releasing games of old. Take a look at Square Enix lately. A large part of the Final Fantasy games (particularly all the SNES titles) have been re-released on many platforms, PlayStation (yes old but an example) and recently Mobile Platforms (like iOS and Android). With Android an being open operating system, they do run on consoles that are powered with Android and quite easily ran on Android Emulators on PCs (although I have yet to try that). There's even Nintendo's attempts with the Virtual Console, select games remade/re-released on other console marketplaces like XBLA and PSN Store. So trying to argue games are hard come by legally is becoming more and more moot.


Sun Mar 23, 2014 7:02 pm
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Post Re: Windows 7, 8, 8.1, DirectDraw, ZSNES and You
Truth Unknown wrote:
A large part of the Final Fantasy games (particularly all the SNES titles) have been re-released on many platforms, PlayStation (yes old but an example) and recently Mobile Platforms (like iOS and Android).

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?

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Squall_Leonhart wrote:
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You have your 2s, 4s, 8s, 16s, 32s, 64s, and 128s(crash course in binary counting!). But no 1s.
DirectInput represents all bits, not just powers of 2 in an axis.


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Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:14 am
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Post Re: Windows 7, 8, 8.1, DirectDraw, ZSNES and You
Gil_Hamilton wrote:
WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?


Oh wait, Mystic Quest hasn't been re-released and I guess IV (II for the US SNES cart) is the 3D version (then again Rosa and Rydia can weigh in how positive could be). So I guess it's not all of them exactly. Not to mention the redone graphics of V and VI (III for the US SNES cart) is just not classic enough. So I guess the only logical conclusion is, PORT ZNES 2 IFONE!!!!!!111111111!

Then again, if they put Chrono Trigger on Android OR put all the current re-releases on steam with VII and VIII. Nah, it's not like I'd pay for any of it.

EDIT: Never-mind, they did put Chrono Trigger on Android, but looks like the interpolation filter all over the SNES graphics.


Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:22 am
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Post Re: Windows 7, 8, 8.1, DirectDraw, ZSNES and You
I own a legit copy of Suikoden 2 so I don't exactly feel bad about using an ISO of it for emulation. The whole "entitled gamer" argument is lame & played out as well, and I never said I had the "right" to just download games left and right. This isn't a political debate Gil; no need to put words in my mouth. I call my argument the "who fucking cares" argument because you & everyone here has done it, probably at least as much as I have. He who has not sinned and all that.

I own legit copies of a very large portion of ROMs I've downloaded, and the ones I don't own real copies of are mostly abandonware that can only be purchased used anyway or are only available in English through fan translations. Let's not blow shit out of proportion, although TU's legal argument is most definitely legit.


Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:49 pm
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Post Re: Windows 7, 8, 8.1, DirectDraw, ZSNES and You
Yuber wrote:
I own a legit copy of Suikoden 2 so I don't exactly feel bad about using an ISO of it for emulation. The whole "entitled gamer" argument is lame & played out as well, and I never said I had the "right" to just download games left and right. This isn't a political debate Gil; no need to put words in my mouth. I call my argument the "who fucking cares" argument because you & everyone here has done it, probably at least as much as I have. He who has not sinned and all that.

I didn't say I've never done it, or even that I did it based on the cost of acquiring a game legit.

The fact is you made a post justifying piracy, and listed expensive games and games not legally available in english as reasons to pirate(though patching your own home-dumped ROM images is a legal way to attain english versions).
Which REALLY sounds like "I deserve free games" to me, and that's a long-time peeve of mine.


Don't justify piracy, and especially don't justify it based on the difficulty of being legit.
Just batten the hatches and hoist the jolly roger, matey.

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Squall_Leonhart wrote:
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You have your 2s, 4s, 8s, 16s, 32s, 64s, and 128s(crash course in binary counting!). But no 1s.
DirectInput represents all bits, not just powers of 2 in an axis.


KHDownloads


Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:14 am
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Post Re: Windows 7, 8, 8.1, DirectDraw, ZSNES and You
The fact of the matter is that you have no room to criticize others for downloading ROMs because you along with everyone else here does the same thing, and I very rarely dl ROMs now anyway. I'm not saying it's the right thing to do, but many of the more obscure and/or Japan-only titles would never be playable without emulation & roms. It's awfully hypocritical of you to give me shit about downloading roms because you do the exact same thing. You're arguing for the sake of arguing again & hypocrisy is not an attractive trait.

To make myself 100% clear, I'm not saying it's the right thing to do. I just don't give a flying fuck because downloading(mostly) abandonware just isn't a big deal. I own physical copies of most of the roms I emulate. Emulating games is convenient, fun & it gives all of us access to game we never would've played otherwise. You'd have a MUCH stronger argument if you weren't "guilty" of the same shit you're giving me a hard time for. I'm saying what most people who use emulators think anyway, and you're acting like a snitch.

You seem to have a general beef with me, and if true just PM me so we can stop shitting this thread up.

EDIT: As far as this subject goes, the only things I really feel bad about is burning DC games back in 00-01 because they were new games at the time. Some were Japan-only(CvS2, GGX), but I burned several US games as well. That was really shitty on my part.


Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:51 pm
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Post Re: Windows 7, 8, 8.1, DirectDraw, ZSNES and You
Enough of the derail, although there is one outstanding question that was unanswered.
aceofkings wrote:
It is legal to use rooms?

NO, leave the room and turn yourself in, to the police.

There, all done, this topic is really just here to point people to when they have performance problems running ZSNES in Windows (Vista, but who uses that still) 7, 8 and 8.1. Nothing really about ROMs, how to get them, the possible illegal means to get them, or who did a bad thing. Plus I found out my toaster turns my bread into, get this, TOAST! In the end, people should wait for a new version of ZSNES, possibly feeding a few heart- I mean dollars to the hands of the developers and in the meantime, using an emulator that's more friendly to the new versions of Windows.


Sat Mar 29, 2014 5:05 am
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Post Re: Windows 7, 8, 8.1, DirectDraw, ZSNES and You
Yuber wrote:
The fact of the matter is that you have no room to criticize others for downloading ROMs because you along with everyone else here does the same thing, and I very rarely dl ROMs now anyway. I'm not saying it's the right thing to do, but many of the more obscure and/or Japan-only titles would never be playable without emulation & roms. It's awfully hypocritical of you to give me shit about downloading roms because you do the exact same thing. You're arguing for the sake of arguing again & hypocrisy is not an attractive trait.

I think you've fundamentally misunderstood what I was saying.

I didn't say "RAWMZ ARE EVIL DELETE THEM NOW YOU HORRIBLE PERSON"
I said "not everyone can afford to buy ridiculously rare, expensive old games" is a lousy defense.
Don't bring cost into it. It completely destroys any moral high ground you had with the "abandonware" argument and just makes you an entitled brat.



Quote:
You'd have a MUCH stronger argument if you weren't "guilty" of the same shit you're giving me a hard time for.

I'm not guilty of what I'm bugging you about. I DON'T justify my piracy with an entitlement argument about the cost of buying the games used or the difficulty of making my own ROM images. I just do it.

Quote:
you're acting like a snitch.

It's true. I'm a total snitch. I e-mailed your post to Nintendo yesterday.
i don't think that word means what you think it means.

Quote:
You seem to have a general beef with me

Not really. I quite like, say, grinvader, but I'd be tearing into him too if he'd said "pirate games because they're stupid expensive and you can't get a lot of them in english anyways."
But... he didn't. You did. And here we are.


Also: PMs are lame. I prefer to air my dirty laundry in public.
To the extent that I will post PMs to the forums in cases where I feel it will be entertaining to someone besides me.

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Squall_Leonhart wrote:
Quote:
You have your 2s, 4s, 8s, 16s, 32s, 64s, and 128s(crash course in binary counting!). But no 1s.
DirectInput represents all bits, not just powers of 2 in an axis.


KHDownloads


Sat Mar 29, 2014 5:57 am
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