Looking for opinions on the Mayflash Saturn/PS2/N64 adapter

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Yuber
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Looking for opinions on the Mayflash Saturn/PS2/N64 adapter

Post by Yuber »

I'm planning on buying a used Saturn pad(Model Mk-80116) plus a Mayflash Saturn/PS2/N64 USB adapter to play arcade fighters and shooters. It's a damn shame that today's modern controllers don't even come close to the precise perfection of the Saturn pad, and beware of those PlaySega knockoffs; it only cost me $7.30 with shipping new but MAN it's a piece of shit. I thought it just wouldn't last long but it's so badly designed that I can hear all the buttons/dpad rattling if I shake it lightly, and the dpad just isn't responsive. The Xbox 360 controllers I'm using for emus work for most games, but I'm used to using dpads and the 360 dpad is awful for fighters and shooters, although I can pull off most moves. The diagonals are all mushy and often when pulling of half-circle motions in fighters, I end up jumping accidentally due to its mushy nature. The SLS USB Saturn style pads are almost impossible to find, and are like $200 new right now.

I want to use a Saturn pad for competitive netplay, and I'm just curious if there's any noticeable input lag. If anyone uses this setup, I'd love to hear some opinions. I'm using Windows 8 home edition, and old messed up controllers from 1999 or so still work, so I assume it would recognize a Saturn pad. PS/PS2 adapters work perfectly as well, but NOTHING beats the saturn pad as far as the layout and dpad are concerned. I'd also like to get a Saturn to Dreamcast adapter so I can use a Saturn pad for the Japanese Capcom vs SNK 2; the DC dpad is just as bad as the 360.

I know this is a long rant, but this current generation of consoles just doesn't cut it; I'm not into FPS games and modern controllers suck compared to the precision, layout, and general comfortable feel of the Saturn pad. The Madcatz fightpads and other knockoffs are badly made, so I figure getting a SS pad + an adapter is my best bet as far as dpads go. Man, I wish those SLS USB controllers were still available. I should've picked one up in 04 or so when they were available and affordable.
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Re: Looking for opinions on the Mayflash Saturn/PS2/N64 adap

Post by Gil_Hamilton »

Yuber wrote:I know this is a long rant, but this current generation of consoles just doesn't cut it; I'm not into FPS games and modern controllers suck compared to the precision, layout, and general comfortable feel of the Saturn pad. The Madcatz fightpads and other knockoffs are badly made, so I figure getting a SS pad + an adapter is my best bet as far as dpads go.
I wound up with a Horipad EX2.
Certainly, it's not an exact duplicate of the Saturn controller, but it has a decent d-pad and 3/3 face button layout(LB and RB are mirrored on the face).


Personally, I'm a joystick man for most 2D games. And THAT market's fucked up beyond belief. I think Hori and Mad Catz are the only games in town these days, and if you want a device that doesn't cost three digits, then good fucking luck.
And then you get a stick with a square aperture instead of a circular or octagonal one, so it WANTS to slide into corners and out of the four cardinal directions. Which is pretty much the worst-case design as far as fully-functional devices go.
No stick preference > preference for the cardinal directions > preference for the corners > asymmetrical preference like that one DC joystick I have and I honestly don't know how they did it.
Squall_Leonhart wrote:
You have your 2s, 4s, 8s, 16s, 32s, 64s, and 128s(crash course in binary counting!). But no 1s.
DirectInput represents all bits, not just powers of 2 in an axis.
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odditude
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Re: Looking for opinions on the Mayflash Saturn/PS2/N64 adap

Post by odditude »

x-arcade sticks are decent, and the restrictor can be switched between 4-way (cardinals, not diagonals) and 8-way. the downside is they're heug; i have a tankstick and you really don't want that on your lap.
Why yes, my shift key *IS* broken.
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Re: Looking for opinions on the Mayflash Saturn/PS2/N64 adap

Post by Gil_Hamilton »

odditude wrote:x-arcade sticks are decent, and the restrictor can be switched between 4-way (cardinals, not diagonals) and 8-way. the downside is they're heug; i have a tankstick and you really don't want that on your lap.
Is the 8-way restrictor square or something sane?

That said, I didn't realize X-Arcade offered restrictor options at all, so...

Edit: Oh. Switchable actuator, not a restrictor. Well, it's better than nothing, but it's not really what you want in most cases.
It solves the problem of software glitching if it sees diagonals and doesn't expect them, but not the problem of rapid directional shifts don't shift so rapidly. It's ruined more than one game of Qix when I've hit a corner and kept going in the old direction that extra frame or three while I guided it over to the new direction.



Really, I need to sit down, buy a bucketful of parts, and make me a stick to my specifications.
Actually, I had some plans to build a modular panel at one point. Only way to play shit like Defender and QBert.
Squall_Leonhart wrote:
You have your 2s, 4s, 8s, 16s, 32s, 64s, and 128s(crash course in binary counting!). But no 1s.
DirectInput represents all bits, not just powers of 2 in an axis.
KHDownloads
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UPDATE: got both the controller and adapter(long)

Post by Yuber »

I bought a used Model Mk-80116 Saturn pad(not a knockoff, the real deal) and one of the Mayflash SS/N64/PS2 adapters, and it's fucking awesome. Even though the controller is used and has a couple signs of wear superficially(surprisingly good condition though) all the buttons and the D-pad work flawlessly even in King of Fighters(and Vampire/Darkstalkers) games which have some damn complicated inputs, with zero input lag as far as I can tell. I thought about buying some of the Madcatz controllers that emulate a Saturn pad, but nothing can really beat a genuine pad when it comes to precision. It's from 1996 I think and with the USB adapter, it works perfectly with no software even on Windows 8. The D-pad rotates around a tiny bit due to previous use, but it doesn't seem to affect gameplay at all since I can pull off things like Demitri's transformation move in the Vampire games and KOF ultra desperation moves very consistently, which is near impossible with the floaty ass 360 D-pad. It's good enough that I think I'm gonna buy another adapter plus another used Saturn pad since there's really no better controller in terms of using a pad, and it's not very expensive.

I know nothing about the other Saturn USB adapters and I have no PS3 so I'm not sure how this setup works with it, but I've heard about people using this on a PS3 as well on games that allow you to reconfigure the controls. Even used USB SLS Saturn-like pads are like $100+ in good condition, and if you can even find one brand new it's like $200. I bought the most expensive used Saturn pad I could find plus the adapter, and it was around $57 with shipping included(combined). It's cheaper than a 360 controller, which is absolutely terrible for fighters. Considering it was made in the mid-late 90s, it's in damn good condition and I really hope it lasts me a long time.

Back in 1999, I used one of those Gravis gamepad pro USB controllers and while it was nice in general, it was a bit floaty and only had 4 face buttons. This is the best controller I've ever used and rivals the precision of actually playing a fighter in the arcades, although a pad is completely different. Highly recommended but they're out of stock on amazon atm but I searched ebay and there are some available there. The Mayflash adapter I listed is easy to find, and I recommend getting a more expensive used Saturn pad(mine was $25 without shipping) and contacting the seller for pics of it.

EDIT: I forgot to add, with the Mayflash SS/PS2/N64 adapter, if you press and hold down start+A on your Saturn pad for 3 seconds, it'll recognize the D-pad as the X/Y axis instead of the point of view hats. It's incredibly handy with emulators like kawaks and neoragex that don't recognize POV hats. Repeating this will reverse it back to the POV hats.

If you can find a used Saturn pad in very good condition, this is the best setup I can think of outside of really expensive arcade sticks. I'll still use my 360 pad for SNES emulation(other than fighters) to prevent more wear on the Saturn pad, but for any fighting game or vertical/horizontal shooters, it's fucking perfect, or as close to it as possible. I'm just surprised that it works as well as it does without any noticeable input lag, especially the precision of the diagonals. These babies were built to last and it's a shame that pads of this quality are no longer made as far as I know.

Next, I'm gonna buy a Saturn to Dreamcast adapter to play guilty Gear X, CVS2, Vampire Chronicles etc. WHY THE FUCK DIDN'T SEGA MAKE A SATURN-LIKE PAD FOR THE DC?! Seriously, ithe default DC controller is better than a 360 D-pad but it's inferior to the Saturn pad in every way. I generally play old games that don't need analog sticks, so this setup is a dream on my PC.
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Re: UPDATE: got both the controller and adapter(long)

Post by Gil_Hamilton »

Yuber wrote:The D-pad rotates around a tiny bit due to previous use, but it doesn't seem to affect gameplay at all since I can pull off things like Demitri's transformation move in the Vampire games and KOF ultra desperation moves very consistently,
KoF moves are the true test of any input device. :P
which is near impossible with the floaty ass 360 D-pad.
To be fair, walking in a straight line is near-impossible with the 360-s directional.
I know nothing about the other Saturn USB adapters and I have no PS3 so I'm not sure how this setup works with it, but I've heard about people using this on a PS3 as well on games that allow you to reconfigure the controls.
Yeah. PS3 will let you use standard HID gamepads. Surprised the hell out of me when I found out.
Back in 1999, I used one of those Gravis gamepad pro USB controllers and while it was nice in general, it was a bit floaty and only had 4 face buttons.
Ugh. I had that same controller. "A bit floaty" doesn't begin to cover it.
EDIT: I forgot to add, with the Mayflash SS/PS2/N64 adapter, if you press and hold down start+A on your Saturn pad for 3 seconds, it'll recognize the D-pad as the X/Y axis instead of the point of view hats. It's incredibly handy with emulators like kawaks and neoragex that don't recognize POV hats. Repeating this will reverse it back to the POV hats.
Very nice. Also useful for some PC games that recognize the analog axes and not hat switches. Which is more common than you'd think in the market segments where a gamepad is a viable input device.
Squall_Leonhart wrote:
You have your 2s, 4s, 8s, 16s, 32s, 64s, and 128s(crash course in binary counting!). But no 1s.
DirectInput represents all bits, not just powers of 2 in an axis.
KHDownloads
odditude
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Re: UPDATE: got both the controller and adapter(long)

Post by odditude »

Gil_Hamilton wrote:
Yuber wrote:Back in 1999, I used one of those Gravis gamepad pro USB controllers and while it was nice in general, it was a bit floaty and only had 4 face buttons.
Ugh. I had that same controller. "A bit floaty" doesn't begin to cover it.
playing Contra on a GPP meant every time you needed to duck, you aimed diagonally-down and got shot in the face. playing Columns or Dr. Mario meant you lose.
Why yes, my shift key *IS* broken.
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Re: Looking for opinions on the Mayflash Saturn/PS2/N64 adap

Post by Yuber »

To be fair, at least I was able to pull off KOF and Capcom style supers consistently with that old Gravis pad, but it had the same problems as the 360 D-pad with the diagonals being inconsistent and almost always accidentally jumping when pressing back or forward which was just straight up annoying. When I eventually buy another Saturn pad(or 2) I'll get both another Mayflash USB adapter plus a SS to Dreamcast adapter so I can finally pull of CVS2 supers on a consistent basis. The DC controller's D-pad is a lot like the Gravis in floatiness, but it's better than the 360 pad in that I can usually pull off fairly complicated moves but jumping when pressing the back button is a pain in the ass.

Other than the floatiness, my main problem with the 360 pad is that I have to press it down fairly hard when pulling off supers in fighters, but I've used them on my PC for so long that I can play non-fighters/shooters pretty easily with it. It's been a VERY long time since I've played an arcade game and I'm just used to using a D-pad, so I suck badly with joysticks.

Also, any opinion on the original, larger model 1 Saturn pad compared to the model 2? I've only used the type I recently bought and it works great, but the older controller looks like it may be a bit sturdier due to harder looking plastic on the D-pad.

EDIT: I know I mentioned it already but I just want to stress to anyone reading this that those playsega(the other knockoffs are apparently just as bad) USB controllers are absolute garbage. I only payed like $7.30 with shipping for one but man it's unresponsive, and shaking it a little rattles all the buttons. Sega could make a lot of money if they started making REAL Saturn style pads for modern consoles and PCs since fighters are still ridiculously popular. Those used Saturn pads on Amazon sold out pretty quickly so why not?
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Re: Looking for opinions on the Mayflash Saturn/PS2/N64 adap

Post by Gil_Hamilton »

Yuber wrote:To be fair, at least I was able to pull off KOF and Capcom style supers consistently with that old Gravis pad, but it had the same problems as the 360 D-pad with the diagonals being inconsistent and almost always accidentally jumping when pressing back or forward which was just straight up annoying.
I found it had different issues.
The 360 pad's issue is that the d-pad doesn't sit right, so it's loose on top of the switches. The effect is somewhat like the diagonals are just far too wide.

The Gravis, on the other hand, had stoppers under the four cardinal directions, which created pivot points. It wanted to be in the diagonals and fought you if you tried to hit a cardinal direction.
The DC controller's D-pad is a lot like the Gravis in floatiness, but it's better than the 360 pad in that I can usually pull off fairly complicated moves but jumping when pressing the back button is a pain in the ass.
Also, the DC pad doesn't have pivot points on the edges. If you hold a cardinal direction, it will stay there.
The big problem THERE is the d-button is just too tall. And that's down to the shape of the controller. The board's recessed quite a ways from the front of the controller, so it HAS to be tall.
At that point, they should've just gone all-out and put in a hat switch like SNK used on their gamepads and portables. My NeoGeo Pocket has one of the best "d-pads" I've ever used.
Also, any opinion on the original, larger model 1 Saturn pad compared to the model 2? I've only used the type I recently bought and it works great, but the older controller looks like it may be a bit sturdier due to harder looking plastic on the D-pad.
Never owned a Saturn controller, so no opinion.
As you can tell from the above, if I had one I WOULD have an opinion.
Squall_Leonhart wrote:
You have your 2s, 4s, 8s, 16s, 32s, 64s, and 128s(crash course in binary counting!). But no 1s.
DirectInput represents all bits, not just powers of 2 in an axis.
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off-topic ghouls n' ghosts shit

Post by Yuber »

Bit of bragging on my part I know, but although the 360 D-pad sucks ass with shmups and fighters, I was able to beat Ghouls n' Ghosts(Genesis) on professional mode with the 360 D-pad; I don't want to further wear my Saturn pad so I ONLY use it for fighters and shmups like Dodonpachi(really awesome arcade game btw) etc. DDP is one of the hardest games I've ever played and I will probably never beat it.

I got the psycho cannon in the 1st level in the 2nd run, so I did have to use a save state to kill that obnoxious maggot boss(I was able to destroy 3 hearts without being hit and saved) so it wasn't 100% legit. You are right that the D-pad doesn't have a good base, because when diagonals are pressed(upper left in this example) the input will register the diagonal and then veer off to the left or up sometimes. You clearly know a lot more about controllers technically than I do; I'm just speaking from experience.

However, if I can beat Ghouls on hard with the 360 D-pad it's really not THAT bad, although it's ridiculously inferior to the Saturn pad and is mostly designed for its analog sticks, which are very good. I tried playing the arcade Ghouls but in the world version I was playing, THERE ARE NO FUCKING BOSS CHECKPOINTS! I kinda bitched out and beat the Genesis version on hard/professional mode instead. Seriously, who other than an absolute expert could beat that maggot boss without a checkpoint right before the fight? I actually glitched out the game and died from a laser right after I killed lucifer, but it registered as me beating the game but since that's unacceptable imo(and he's easy), I fought him again using a save state I made right after killing Beelzebub(in case of a crash) and killed lucifer(stupid censors turned him to loki) in my underwear.

I should've kept the knife until I killed the maggot that shoots demon boners with teeth and got the cannon in the last stage, but I got it early because I get hit a LOT in the final stage because of those damn flying speedo fruits, the boss gauntlet and puking frat pigs. Every time I think I'm gonna get the gold armor, the fag wizard comes out and turns me into a duck or an old man. Ghouls is the only game where I can say I killed lucifer in my underwear.
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Re: off-topic ghouls n' ghosts shit

Post by Gil_Hamilton »

Yuber wrote:Bit of bragging on my part I know, but although the 360 D-pad sucks ass with shmups and fighters, I was able to beat Ghouls n' Ghosts(Genesis) on professional mode with the 360 D-pad; I don't want to further wear my Saturn pad so I ONLY use it for fighters and shmups like Dodonpachi(really awesome arcade game btw) etc. DDP is one of the hardest games I've ever played and I will probably never beat it.

I got the psycho cannon in the 1st level in the 2nd run, so I did have to use a save state to kill that obnoxious maggot boss(I was able to destroy 3 hearts without being hit and saved) so it wasn't 100% legit. You are right that the D-pad doesn't have a good base, because when diagonals are pressed(upper left in this example) the input will register the diagonal and then veer off to the left or up sometimes. You clearly know a lot more about controllers technically than I do; I'm just speaking from experience.
I'm passionate. I've taken controllers apart for fun before.
However, if I can beat Ghouls on hard with the 360 D-pad it's really not THAT bad
No, it IS that bad. You have some seriously mad skills if you tore through Ghosts & Goblins on a 360 d-pad.

[/quote]mostly designed for its analog sticks, which are very good. [/quote]
Meh. I've got a dislike of analog thumbsticks in general, and haven't really seen the 360 distinguish it's in any real way from the XBox and PS1 and PS2 and PS3 and Dreamcast. All circular apertures with very little spring resistance, a tiny range of motion, and some degree of bias towards the cardinal directions. Basically the worst way to do analog input.

I acknowledge a larger device is unlikely, but a new centering mechanism would help a lot.
Sinistar apparently had a joystick that was very light in the center but required more force to get to the edges, and was roughly equal force in all directions. Which gives you more control over how far you move the stick from center, as well as a better 360° experience.

I tried playing the arcade Ghouls but in the world version I was playing, THERE ARE NO FUCKING BOSS CHECKPOINTS!
Reminds me of the SNES Super R-Type. No checkpoints. You die one hit from killing the boss? BACK TO THE START OF THE STAGE WITH YOU!
Ghouls is the only game where I can say I killed lucifer in my underwear.
And that's what makes it great.
Squall_Leonhart wrote:
You have your 2s, 4s, 8s, 16s, 32s, 64s, and 128s(crash course in binary counting!). But no 1s.
DirectInput represents all bits, not just powers of 2 in an axis.
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Re: Looking for opinions on the Mayflash Saturn/PS2/N64 adap

Post by grinvader »

Checkpoints are for sissies.
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Re: Looking for opinions on the Mayflash Saturn/PS2/N64 adap

Post by Yuber »

I;m actually really terrible at Ghouls, died constantly and beat the Genesis version on professional because of infinite continues. Took me about 2 hours to beat it completely since that maggot kept kicking my ass. The 360 pad I used is fairly new so it's a tiny bit tighter than one that's been worn a lot so the Dpad didn't give me a lot of problems, plus I have most of the levels memorized at least in the Genesis version so I did tear through the earlier levels for the most part...other than those damn turtles and the maggot.

I can do Ghouls without using diagonals all that much and just using quick reaction time, but the game is fucking random so it's hard to completely predict. Even on a better controller though, I'm pretty bad at platformers in general but that game just sucks me in and I refused to give up before I kicked its ass. Basically it just pissed me off so much that I had to finish it and I bet most people feel that way about GNG.

Now, Ghosts and Goblins just kicks my ass throughly compared to Ghouls, because being able to fire up and down in the latter(especially with the knife) makes it a lot more bearable. I'll eventually try to beat the arcade version but oh man is that version gonna piss me off. There are checkpoints but only mid-way through the level and not right at the boss. I always get hit during the ice slide so fighting the maggot in my underwear is pretty much my only option unless I get really lucky.

EDIT: I'm having trouble sleeping and actually beat the arcade version of Ghouls n' Ghosts(World version, default settings/4 difficulty), but I used a fucking million continues and took around 3 hours. I had to beat the game legit after using that save state in the Genesis version, so now I can finally say I beat the damn game and never play it again, lol. I actually killed the maggot 2nd try with the knives and got the psycho cannon in the last stage in the 2nd run, but the boss gauntlet kept killing me over and over and I probably used 8 continues in that fucking stage alone. I killed Lucifer first try and finished the fucker in my gold armor. I've never been so pissed at a game before but man it's nice to finally finish it!

I used the 360 pad, but I've used these controllers for 5 years on my computer and I'm used to playing non fighters/shmups with them. Can't believe I put myself through that and screamed the nastiest obscenities constantly in the middle of the night for 3 hours.
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