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Hail to the Zhi 
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Post Re: Hail to the Zhi
Thanks, but I placed an order for a new PS2 yesterday & I'm not cancelling. However, I could tape the lid down and give it away like I suggested in my last post. I don't think I'd screw up a simple sensor taping, but I'm also gonna research ways to mod it to play imported & burned games. I'll probably just tape the sensor down and give it away, but if I succeed in modding it to play burned games, that'd be much better than emulating PS2 games. I love how simple playing burned games on the Dreamcast(on the model I have at least) is. Just burn and play; no boot disc needed. Other than a few games like Skies of Arcadia, burned copies run almost as well as legit GD-roms. I plan to buy a legit copy of SOA eventually, though.

Quick question for those that've played FF4DS: Is it even possible to kill the optional bosses without adamant armor or other rare gear? If not, I'll use cheats in a NG+ that give me all the tails, but if it IS possible, I won't fuck with cheats.

Getting rare gear for everyone would take WAY too long, especially since I don't have the TH augment. The drop rates for rare tails should've been greatly increased in FF4DS IF it's technically impossible to kill the optional bosses without at least adamant armor. I've never gotten a pink tail in ANY version of FF4, ever. Admittedly, I've never seriously tried, but the drop rate is so ridiculously low that I never bothered. Rarest drops I've gotten have been giant's gloves(PSP version) and a wyvern lance(SNES FF4j/J2e version). I don't care that much if I legitimately kill the optionals, but if they're beatable without rare gear I'll keep it legit. Those red dragons can drive a man mad; fuck that shit.


Sun Dec 22, 2013 1:56 am
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The DS version was probably tuned for the current generation of gamers, i.e. no more 1/256 drop rates.

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Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:16 am
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I dunno about catering to the current gen of gamers, because FF4DS is HARD compared to the original and GBA/PSP versions. It's still ridiculously low, but maybe the tails' drop rates were increased because you need rare equipment in order to kill the optional bosses? Even at lvl 99 plus all the best non-rare equips, is it still impossible to kill the Geryon & Proto-Babil? I'll check out some YT footage and see if there are any videos of people killing them without tail-based equips.

In addition to adamant armor, it'd be nice to score at least 1 onion sword for Kain. Kain didn't get shafted nearly as hard with his holy lance(compared to the ragnarok) as he did in the original, but an onion sword for him would be very nice.


Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:08 am
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Mark57Raider wrote:
Games like Tales of Phantasia on the zsnes were executed beautifully if not by AGTP translations.

Huh? Unless the Zhi and his crew attempted their own translation I thought that was DEJAP that did the work...
Yuber wrote:
If that happens, I think quality games will become very rare.

I think it's already RARE, considering nowadays they just make crap Wii Sports clones on XBox 360... ;)

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Fri Dec 27, 2013 10:36 am
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Post Re: Hail to the Zhi
adventure_of_link wrote:
Mark57Raider wrote:
Games like Tales of Phantasia on the zsnes were executed beautifully if not by AGTP translations.

Huh? Unless the Zhi and his crew attempted their own translation I thought that was DEJAP that did the work...
...hence "if not by AGTP"

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Fri Dec 27, 2013 2:07 pm
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I think it's already RARE, considering nowadays they just make crap Wii Sports clones on XBox 360... ;)


Please punch yourself in the face for making such a corny joke :lol: In all seriousness though, I do think the rise of mobile gaming is lowering the quality bar for all games, plus shit like microtransactions bleed into the dedicated gaming market. I know modern consoles have(unfortunately) become multimedia devices and aren't even close to being 100% dedicated to gaming, but they were designed primarily to run games.(and spy on you with their stupid gimmicks) As much shit as the Wii U gets, it's much closer to a dedicated gaming system than the PS4 or especially the XB1. Assuming "X" by Monolith is a single player, story-based JRPG like I hope it is, it's really the only game I'm hyped about. I have no plans to ever buy an XB1, and if I get a PS4, it'll be in 3-4 years once it's cheaper and has a large game library.

I'm MUCH more into Japanese games than I am western developed games, and that's a big reason why the rise of mobile "gaming" bothers me so much. The VAST majority of phone/tablet games are either cheap, shitty cash grabs or ports with shitty touch controls. The quality bar is so low for mobile that companies can release games that would be seen as unacceptable pieces of shit on the 3DS, but they succeed in the mobile market. Mobile is most certainly ruining quality Japanese gaming, especially dedicated handheld gaming. The 3DS seems to be doing fine, but how long can it last before it gets slammed by a tidal wave of ios/android shit?


Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:57 am
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Post Re: Hail to the Zhi
Yuber wrote:
I do think the rise of mobile gaming is lowering the quality bar for all games, plus shit like microtransactions bleed into the dedicated gaming market.

That doesn't come out of cellphone games. It comes out of the free-to-play online games.

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Mobile is most certainly ruining quality Japanese gaming...

I'd say the japanese are ruining japanese gaming.

Well, I would, but I'd just be quoting japanese developers. People like Keiji Inafune and Shinji Mikami.

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Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:36 am
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I'd say it's a combination of both. Japanese companies are failing and sometimes straight up refusing to adapt to new markets/environments, and instead of getting their shit together, they're using shitty phone/tablet games as an excuse to stay shitty. The low quality bar for mobile games is enabling these fallen companies. I do think you have a point though; look at Square-Enix. Are they REALLY considering FFX-3?! For fucks sake, X-2 was already an abomination(story and environment wise) that ruined X's ending. SE doesn't know when to stop, and I now fully agree with you that FF just needs to die, but you know that won't happen. It's already been milked dry, but SE just keeps stooping lower and lower. I don't even wanna see remakes anymore unless SE changes or gets bought out by a better, more competent company.

I'd actually change my mind on that if SE changed their ways, stopped making sequels to mainline FFs and started actually making quality games again.(and no more cheap mobile trash) Even then though, I'd still prefer new IPs over SE's stupid Jpop FF games. IX was the last FF I truly enjoyed; X was good but not great imo. I'd ask for a new Chrono game, but you know it'd be some cheap mobile abomination like "BoF6".

While pay2win is most popular on mobile platforms, it did(I think) originally come from shit like Maple Story and other cheap MMOs; you got me there. My point about mobile shit lowering the quality bar for all games still stands though, and ever since the rise of mobile gaming, companies have been much more bold about putting pay2win-style microtransactions in full priced games. That nonsense did originate elsewhere though, so my mistake. It became mainstream in the mobile market though.(not 100%, but safe to assume)

Regardless of shitty phone games, I strongly believe that DLC abuse and microtransactions in full-priced games is ruining gaming for us consumers. Japanese companies destroying themselves combined with their shift to cheap mobile cash grabs has left me uninterested in new games for the most part. If "X" for the Wii U turns out to be online-focused or something, I'll be 100% uninterested and just play older games like I do now. Thankfully, I have more than enough older games to last me the rest of my life.

I think the entire industry needs a massive shakeup if not a crash, but I'm not sure how a full-on crash could happen in today's market. I want DLC and microtransactions to become unacceptable in gaming culture. Just as much though, I'd love to see Japanese companies adapt, escape from mobile hell and DOMINATE the industry again. I'm unapologetically biased towards Japanese games. Nothing against western devs though; I'm mostly just REALLY tired of FPS games. MAN that was a long rant.


Sun Dec 29, 2013 2:43 am
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Post Re: Hail to the Zhi
and speaking of a game crash, I wonder how it's been over 30 years since the last one.. I mean as far as I can remember the problems were:

* too many consoles/games
(look at FPSes, so over flooded... additionally all the iOS/Android stuff too. Furthermore Yuber I don't think Nintendo is going anywhere in the mobile gaming market, there is 3DSware and other such mobile and/or indie games you can get, you know.)
*Shitty games and overfloods of those
(wasn't the whole indie thing why there were so many shitty games on Atari, anyone could write up a game? Is this much different from some indie guy getting a SDK for a console or for PC and write his own shitty games? Additionally, even Nintendo, Sega, AND Sony have all had their fair share of shit, so why is it these companies survived?)

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Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:24 am
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adventure_of_link wrote:
and speaking of a game crash, I wonder how it's been over 30 years since the last one.. I mean as far as I can remember the problems were:

* too many consoles/games
(look at FPSes, so over flooded... additionally all the iOS/Android stuff too. Furthermore Yuber I don't think Nintendo is going anywhere in the mobile gaming market, there is 3DSware and other such mobile and/or indie games you can get, you know.)
*Shitty games and overfloods of those
(wasn't the whole indie thing why there were so many shitty games on Atari, anyone could write up a game? Is this much different from some indie guy getting a SDK for a console or for PC and write his own shitty games? Additionally, even Nintendo, Sega, AND Sony have all had their fair share of shit, so why is it these companies survived?)

Well, the problems were actually a little different than that.
It wasn't too many consoles or too many games, or even too many awful games.
The primary thing is neither retailers nor developers understood the market.


Retailers assumed all games were created equal, so Star Fox(no, not THAT StarFox) was stocked in equal amounts to Asteroids and Space Invaders.


There were deep-seated problems in the management at Atari, a division of Time-Warner Entertainment.
They genuinely believed that it was a good idea to make more copies of ET than there were VCS/2600 consoles in the wild, that it was going to be THAT hot a game, and that it didn't really matter what the game was like. Warshaw did an outstanding job given the time constraints he was under, but he wasn't given enough time to make a decent game.
They also believed that no one CARED if Pac-Man was even remotely like the arcade version, and assigned a programmer that hated Pac-Man to adapt Pac-Man.
And they refused to release a new console without competition forcing their hand, nor would they migrate software development to the 5200 once it DID come out(three years late), because they still viewed the VCS/2600 as a goose that laid golden eggs, and didn't want to endanger it.
And to be fair, they DID sell a shit-ton of ET and Pac-Man cartridges. Even after the returns were processed.


There was also a general economic recession, resulting in a lot less money in the system to start with, which REALLY fucked with everyone that was expecting another year of exponential growth.




At the end of Christmas '83, a lot of games were just plain sold out, like every other year. A lot of people just couldn't get the games they wanted because no one stocked enough of them.
But a lot of other games hadn't sold at all.
So the retailers added things up, saw more than half of their stock was left unsold, and everyone assumed the video game fad had run it's course because sales had only gone up a little bit over '82.



The reasons we haven't had another crash are

A. People know all games are not created equal. I grudgingly accept that Battlefield of Duty SHOULD be stocked in higher quantities than Niche Title I Actually Want, because it WILL sell a lot more copies and WON'T loiter around plugging shelves for years to come. And sure enough, that's what happens.

B. Everyone knows video games aren't a fad, and that any downturn in sales is a minor road bump and not the first sign of the apocalypse.

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Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:08 am
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Post Re: Hail to the Zhi
adventure_of_link wrote:
and speaking of a game crash, I wonder how it's been over 30 years since the last one.. I mean as far as I can remember the problems were:

* too many consoles/games
(look at FPSes, so over flooded... additionally all the iOS/Android stuff too. Furthermore Yuber I don't think Nintendo is going anywhere in the mobile gaming market, there is 3DSware and other such mobile and/or indie games you can get, you know.)
*Shitty games and overfloods of those
(wasn't the whole indie thing why there were so many shitty games on Atari, anyone could write up a game? Is this much different from some indie guy getting a SDK for a console or for PC and write his own shitty games? Additionally, even Nintendo, Sega, AND Sony have all had their fair share of shit, so why is it these companies survived?)


I hope Nintendo doesn't go anywhere, because their systems are the closest things we have to dedicated gaming hardware today. I have nothing against the dedicated handheld gaming market and I'll probably buy a 3DS eventually. My rant was aimed at the shitty phone/tablet "gaming" market because 99.9% of those "games" are browser game quality garbage created for the sole purpose of milking peoples' wallets dry with microtransactions.

I can't stand modern FPS games in general, but today's big FPS games also exemplify the DLC & microtransactions(MTAs from now on) abuse I constantly rant about. Gil's point about not trying to fight the market is valid, but it's sad that most of today's top games are generic military shooters with TONS of DLC scams & MTAs. Sony and MS are trying to bleed people dry with Forza & GT as well.

Gil_Hamilton wrote:
really good post about the crash of '83


You certainly have more knowledge of the VG market than I do, but games becoming mainstream(not being a fad as you said) is the main reason I doubt a crash is coming soon. My main hope is that people get so sick of DLC abuse and MTAs that they boycott the companies that push those practices. Vote with your wallet. Today's economy isn't exactly great either, but it's very slowly recovering.(another economic disaster wouldn't surprise me though) Unfortunately, I have very little confidence that people will start to wise up to these obvious scams.

I firmly believe that practices like DLC abuse, MTs and intrusive DRM destroy the artistic integrity of gaming.(even otherwise great games) Of course it's always been about profits, but those practices go WAY too far. It's sickeningly obvious that DLC & MTAs are scams other than very rare expansion pack DLC. It really annoys me when people complain about these practices and continue to support the games and companies that are ripping them off. The ONLY DLC I've ever bought was some stupid costume pack for Soul Calibur 4 a few years ago. It was a stupid decision and I haven't bought DLC since.(never payed for any MTAs thankfully)

I also hate the practice of charging for online play. I foolishly payed for 2 years of XBL Gold back in(I think) 2009-2010, but I've long since cancelled my XBL subscription. It's not hard to vote with your wallet and I really, REALLY hope more people start doing so soon. Oh how I'd love for there to be a 20 year FPS drought :lol: The Cod/BF updates("new" games) are similar to Capcom's constant SF2 updates in the 90s but worse due to DLC & MTAs.

I'm a fan of local MP, but I'm mostly into SP games. It sucks that most big games are either designed entirely around online MP(which MS & Sony charge for) or only have half-assed, 5 hour SP campaigns. I need more meat on the bone than that, which is why I absolutely love older JRPGs. Nintendo isn't doing well with the Wii U, but at least they're making the system's library more diverse than the PS4 or XB1's. I'm FAR from a Nintendo fanboy; my last Nintendo console was the N64. The industry NEEDS Nintendo though because they make some of the best 1st & 2nd party games in the world and they're the only dedicated gaming company in the world atm. The Wii U does have some multimedia features, but it's much closer to a pure game console than the PS4 or XB1. I REALLY hope Nintendo doesn't start charging for online play.

I know I post far too many long winded rants, but the industry truly does need to be shaken to its core. It's not nostalgia that makes me claim the NES-PS2 days were better; I've replayed many of those old games and they're still just as great today as they were decades ago. There was no DLC, MTAs and there was a MUCH more diverse lineup of games in those days. IMO, the greatest time to be a gamer was between the late 80s and ~2004. There have always been shit games, but even the "good"/"AAA" games of today are garbage due to DLC/MTAs. Releasing the same game every year doesn't help either.


Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:12 am
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Post Re: Hail to the Zhi
Yuber wrote:
You certainly have more knowledge of the VG market than I do, but games becoming mainstream(not being a fad as you said) is the main reason I doubt a crash is coming soon.

It wasn't a fad THEN either. The folks in charge on the business side just didn't understand what they were selling.


And then microtransactions saved the industry.
Since the arcade scene cruised along largely unimpeded by the "death" of the "fad."

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You have your 2s, 4s, 8s, 16s, 32s, 64s, and 128s(crash course in binary counting!). But no 1s.
DirectInput represents all bits, not just powers of 2 in an axis.


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Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:20 am
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Oh come on, I've heard that argument before and I don't buy it. There was always an understanding that arcade games were quarter munchers unlike FULL PRICED GAMES having tons of DLC and MTAs. In the worst cases, you can't get the full experience unless you by X game's DLC. Story-based DLC is an especially disgusting practice unless it's a legit, substantial expansion pack, but that's RARE. I knew this would be your next argument. Arcades simple ARE NOT the same as charging $60 for a game and still charging out the ass for "DLC" that was taken out of the game and/or including an abundance of MTAs. Arcade games never pretended to be anything but quarter munchers, but today, companies will routinely charge full price for their games that have shit taken out of them so they can bleed people dry with DLC scams. Arcades were completely different dude.

There have been arcade ports for as long as consoles have existed, so people like me that didn't want to spend a ton of cash at arcades were able to play popular arcade games at home. Buy the(hopefully good) home port and play as much as you want; no scams. Actually playing and trash talking someone in person beats the shit out of playing online as well.


Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:30 am
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Buzzkill Gil

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Post Re: Hail to the Zhi
Yuber wrote:
Oh come on, I've heard that argument before and I don't buy it.

That's good, because it's a weak argument at best. There's fundamental differences in the implementation between the traditional arcade approach and the more common of modern microtransaction implementations.


The underlying theoretical premise isn't far removed from free-to-play. If you like the game, you'll keep putting money into it. If you don't, the game makes nothing. It's a very survival-of-the-fittest market, and in the arcades it let someone like Raw Thrills punch EA in the face, then kick them in the nuts, then rip their heart out of their chest and take a bite like Kano.

Again, this isn't really a perfect comparison because the arcades wanted you to get the fuck out of the way after a few minutes so someone else could play, and modern free-to-play muhmorpugahs want you to stick around for hours and hours.
Also, you know, only one side of this equation ever really deployed behavioral science to figure out the best ways to get people to dump more money in.


...

At fifty bucks a pop, you'd have to play a LOT of arcade games for buying home ports instead to be cost-effective. It was better to buy home ports of arcade games you like, as opposed to trying to opt out of the system by only buying home ports. Consider the arcades a shareware disk, if you will.

Besides, traditionally, the arcade originals were just plain BETTER than the home versions. It's only recently that arcade hardware sagged to the point where you can make a reasonable facsimile of the arcade experience at home.

And you still can't do Virtual On right without building a controller, since there's no twin stick available for any modern platform, and DC or Saturn sticks are pretty hard to come by these days.
And Althena forbid you try to do Galaxy Force. Home ports of that one just plain miss the point. Though the display depth in the 3DS version is pretty nice.

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You have your 2s, 4s, 8s, 16s, 32s, 64s, and 128s(crash course in binary counting!). But no 1s.
DirectInput represents all bits, not just powers of 2 in an axis.


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Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:39 am
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Post Re: Hail to the Zhi
I'm not too young to remember how much better arcade HW was than the consoles they were ported to. SF2hf on the SNES and Genesis were considered top notch ports although the arcade versions were WORLDS better. More colors, bigger sprites, better animation and sometimes better sound although the SNES was arguably better than much of the arcade HW out there. I actually prefer the arcade SF2(CPS1) tunes to the SNES remixes, so to each their own. The Genesis port had very similar music to the arcade because the Genesis is(I think) an underclocked 68000 + a Z80 with FM synth sound like most arcade boards in '89. I strangely pride myself on debating people either without looking anything up(in this case) or limiting myself to a minute or 2 of research. I enjoy seeing how far I can get in debates without consulting external sources.

This is pure opinion, but overall, today's F2P/pay2win games are of lower quality on average than even average arcade games from the late 80s-early 00s, much less the true classics. I enjoyed arcades because they were places to hang out with friends; online MP & social media nonsense simply cannot replicate an arcade's atmosphere. I'm pretty sure(not 100%) that the mobile market has by fay the highest percentage of F2P MTA-heavy games, so the quality bar for making such games is clearly MUCH lower than the bar for dedicated handhelds, PCs and home consoles.

The business model I find most objectionable in gaming is charging $60 for games that have things deliberately taken out of them so the publisher can bleed people dry via DLC cons and/or MTAs. That kinda filth can't be compared to quarter munchers at all because it's simply a dirty, deceptive tactic. Unfortunately, it's incredibly common as well because lots of people are ignorant and/or stupid enough to fall for that bullshit. I fell for that dumb costume pack in SC4; it was pure ignorance & apathy on my part. I'll never make that mistake again.

Whatever happened to free unlockables in gaming? Now it sometimes even costs money to cheat and fuck around in games for fucks sake! I'll stay on the sidelines for the next few years and play older games until either the industry starts changing for the better or a game that I'm REALLY hyped about comes out. However, if said hypothetical game has DLC scams or MTAs, I'll pass."X" for the Wii U may be "that game" if it's a SP, story-based JRPG. Despite the Wii U's abysmal sales, that game has me intrigued.


Tue Dec 31, 2013 9:58 pm
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Post Re: Hail to the Zhi
Yuber wrote:
The Genesis port had very similar music to the arcade because the Genesis is(I think) an underclocked 68000 + a Z80 with FM synth sound like most arcade boards in '89.

The Genesis CPU is not underclocked.

Motorola(and other companies) sold 68000s rated at a variety of different clock speeds. The Genesis used a slower, and thus cheaper, 68000 than the NeoGeo, which in turn used a slower 68000 than the CPS2.
It's not very different from modern CPU sales in that regard.



Also, not all of Yamaha's YM-series chips were created equal. Some were capable of much more complex synthesis than others.
Nor were they all limited exclusively to FM synthesis. Hell, the NeoGeo's "FM synth" chip had more PCM channels than FM synthesis channels.

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You have your 2s, 4s, 8s, 16s, 32s, 64s, and 128s(crash course in binary counting!). But no 1s.
DirectInput represents all bits, not just powers of 2 in an axis.


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Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:31 am
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Post Re: Hail to the Zhi
Plenty of NG games had/have absolutely amazing music and sound effects. The KoF series, Samurai Showdown series, Metal Slug games and Last Blade 1-2 are good examples of NG games with incredible sound. IMO, the NG had better sound overall than CPS2's Q sound. The NG can imitate electric guitars more accurately than CPS2's Qsound, for example.


Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:04 am
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