SNES NTSC Composite Video Filter

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:21 pm

Dmog wrote:Can't wait to see it in bsnes.

If you took a look near the beginning of this thread, you can find the link to download the beta version of BSNES to test it.

byuu · Post by **byuu** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:26 pm

... there are only a handful of games that actually use pseudo hi-res ...

Pseudo hires is rare (2 games I know use it, 2 other games I have heard use it), but "true" hires is quite common :/
SoM, SD3, Rudra no Hihou, GOD, Madara 2, RPM Racing, Tokimeki Memorial, Romancing SaGa 3, SNES Test Program ... those just off the top of my head.

Can't wait to see it in bsnes.

It's already in bsnes v0.015 rc1. The next version should be out soon enough. I have to perform the monumental task of importing my GUI library into bsnes, which will subsequently break all of the Windows UI work. But when finished, it will greatly clean things up. And if some kind soul ports my UI library to unix, then we will instantly have a fully featured UI for the unix port.
After that's done, I'll release v0.016.

pagefault has outdone me by adding all of the options for the filter into the UI. I have not gotten around to adding these options in to bsnes' UI as of yet. However, I at least have global brightness/contrast/gamma adjust, so you're really only missing merge fields and sharpness adjust. Hue and hue warping I can't imagine anyone ever using.

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:35 pm

byuu wrote:pagefault has outdone me by adding all of the options for the filter into the UI. I have not gotten around to adding these options in to bsnes' UI as of yet. However, I at least have global brightness/contrast/gamma adjust, so you're really only missing merge fields and sharpness adjust. Hue and hue warping I can't imagine anyone ever using.

You'd be surprised that even though they may be the least likely to be tweaked.. never underestimate the demand for "minor features".. at least in this case.

Dmog · Post by **Dmog** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:55 pm

Deathlike2 wrote:
Dmog wrote:Can't wait to see it in bsnes.
If you took a look near the beginning of this thread, you can find the link to download the beta version of BSNES to test it.

Error message cannot dl :/

edit: Nevermind: IE gives me Bullshit but it works fine in Firefox (yeah, I still use IE once in a while...bad habit lol)

edit2: Doh. Guess my directx version is too old for the rc_1 release...

Post by **pagefault** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:26 am

byuu wrote: pagefault has outdone me by adding all of the options for the filter into the UI. I have not gotten around to adding these options in to bsnes' UI as of yet. However, I at least have global brightness/contrast/gamma adjust, so you're really only missing merge fields and sharpness adjust. Hue and hue warping I can't imagine anyone ever using.

Thanks, but it's doesn't really matter at this point because there are some issues right now getting it to play nice with our video code. Windowed mode was easy to do but full screen is proving to be more of a challenge, it works fine at 640x480 but after that I need to start scaling if it is to fit the screen in a nice way. Because the buffer is 600 pixels wide the next fullscreen resolution that can be scaled without screwing up the scanlines is 1280x960. So it's a bit of a dilemma I am trying to solve right now.

I think I have found another game that uses Pseudo hires, check Arkanoid, in the intro it seems to be using a hi-res mode but I have not checked which yet. I don't think ZSNES displays it properly either because it looks kind of odd, like it has scanlines.

I'm still needing to look through the hires blitter already in ZSNES to see how the hell it works so I can attempt to get the NTSC filter working but I have so much other stuff to work on right now that is more important that I haven't had any time to do it. But you are right it almost isn't worth the time to put in because there is hardly anything that uses it, and when it does it's maybe for a small part of the game. I don't think the average person is even going to notice until they have played the game a lot.

Sith · Post by **Sith** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:40 pm

byuu wrote: The next version should be out soon enough.

Allrighty, can't wait for v0.16

and Zsnes v1.43 too.

Post by **grinvader** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 2:55 am

The 'Rare' logo in DKC1-3/KI may use pseudo hires (or real hires) too.

blackmyst · Post by **blackmyst** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 3:57 pm

grinvader wrote:The 'Rare' logo in DKC1-3/KI may use pseudo hires (or real hires) too.

blackmyst wrote:Though in both DKC1 and 2, the rare logo is rendered in double horizontal resolution when it has zoomed out into the bottom right corner. Don't know how much of the screen area this affects, but yeah.

I feel so ignored. </tear>

KI and DKC3 don't do this, btw.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 11:50 pm

byuu wrote:And if some kind soul ports my UI library to unix, then we will instantly have a fully featured UI for the unix port.

What GUI library

? GTK+? Qt? I've been interested in learning either; say which, and I'll learn it to make the GUI for bSNES. Sounds really fun.

kick · Post by **kick** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 3:27 am

I believe Ball Bullet Gun is one of those rare cases in which Hi-Res is used for the whole game.

Clements · Post by **Clements** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 3:41 am

Ball Bullet Gun appears to use a lot of hi-res in the in-game menus. The rest appears to be normal res. You can tell when it's hi-res since it is unfiltered even with a filter enabled (such as hqXx).

cdbsi · Post by **cdbsi** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:09 pm

Dang, i love this filter! It is so authentic.

It's great to see that zsnes is still very much in development, and i'm really liking all of the changes in the new wip.

Post by **Nach** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:56 pm

cdbsi wrote:Dang, i love this filter! It is so authentic.

It's great to see that zsnes is still very much in development, and i'm really liking all of the changes in the new wip.

WTH have you been?
I summon you to come onto IRC immediatly, I have some stuff for you.

creaothceann · Post by **creaothceann** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:41 am

Nice to see you back.

Post by **pagefault** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:29 pm

Still working on integrating the filter. It has led me to recode the entire windows video code from the ground up in Direct3D8. Plus any video mode that is supported by windows will be automatically added to the GUI video options. One advantage to this is that you can finally turn off the filtering you get when you use HW scaling.

Jipcy · Post by **Jipcy** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:32 pm

pagefault wrote:Direct3D8

D8 or D9? What's the functional difference?

Post by **pagefault** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:34 pm

The rest of the code is also DirectX 8 plus I don't want to get into the DLL hell people have been having with DX9. Any shader things will be probably supported in OpenGL which will be on Linux and Windows.

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:50 pm

I don't particularly understand how people have been having the DLL hell with DX9... it would be easier IMO to get the redistributable versions of DX9 over the webupdate versions simply because you're guarenteed everything will be included.

Jipcy, the real difference between D3D8 and D3D9 is the ability to use SM2/SM3 (assuming you have the hardware support)... that's practically it. That and DX9 is not installable on Win95 (though it doesn't matter since noone should be using that OS anymore)..

BFeely · Post by **BFeely** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:11 pm

So will there be hires and pseudo-hires in the filter? And will 448 line mode be properly interlaced?

Post by **pagefault** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:59 pm

Hires won't be supported in the filter for a while. It currently isn't worth the effort to make ZSNES work with it for the amount of games that use it.

byuu · Post by **byuu** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:35 am

D3D9 gives you :
- SetDialogBoxMode: use menus and GDI windows in fullscreen mode
- StretchRect: hardware 2D texture scaling, avoid using 3D textured quads to draw the screen, much faster on cards that support it
- Pixel Shader 2.0/3.0: hardware HQ2x, anyone?
- Multiple render targets
- Multi-head support

D3DX9 gives you :
- Headaches with missing d3dx_nn.dll files. Easy enough to link to microsoft.com to download the files, but your program no longer runs on vanilla XP installs. D3DX is optional, and is not needed to use D3D9. I use it solely for D3DXSaveSurfaceToFile. It lets me take screenshots in BMP, PNG, and JPEG format with a single line of code. I may end up removing it though, the d3dx thing is annoying.

Win98 is almost discontinued by Microsoft as well.

Post by **Nach** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 3:20 am

byuu wrote: D3DX9 gives you :
- Headaches with missing d3dx_nn.dll files. Easy enough to link to microsoft.com to download the files, but your program no longer runs on vanilla XP installs. D3DX is optional, and is not needed to use D3D9. I use it solely for D3DXSaveSurfaceToFile. It lets me take screenshots in BMP, PNG, and JPEG format with a single line of code. I may end up removing it though, the d3dx thing is annoying.

I would think that depends on the compiler.
When I compiled bsnes yesterday I pulled out a DLL list:

Code: Select all

USER32.DLL
COMCTL32.DLL
COMDLG32.DLL
d3d9.dll
d3dx9.dll
ddraw.dll
dinput8.dll
dsound.dll
GDI32.dll
KERNEL32.dll
msvcrt.dll
USER32.dll

I see no d3dx_nn.dll.

Post by **pagefault** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 3:59 am

HLSL is too crazy for me to support. I think I will only do shaders in OpenGL so I don't have to worry about linux.

kieran_ · Post by **kieran_** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 3:48 pm

pagefault wrote: One advantage to this is that you can finally turn off the filtering you get when you use HW scaling.

Brilliant.

ICEknight · Post by **ICEknight** » Wed May 03, 2006 9:06 pm

I'd suggest to add an option to remove the scanlines in this filter, since that would make it look almost (or exactly?) like in PAL TVs.

I've just compared it in Nestopia with a real PAL NES and the visible artifacts seem to be the same or at least quite similar.