Feature Request - XBAND Modem emulation for netplay

Panzer88 · Post by **Panzer88** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 5:31 am

ever considered emulating the third party x-band modem for SNES?

for those who don't know it supported netplay for these games

* Doom
* Ken Griffey Jr. Baseball
* Killer Instinct
* Kirby's Avalanche
* Madden NFL 95
* Madden NFL 96
* Mortal Kombat II
* Mortal Kombat III
* NBA Jam TE
* NHL 95
* NHL 96
* Super Mario Kart
* Super Street Fighter II
* WeaponLord

more information

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XBAND

http://216.120.247.64/

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 5:47 am

http://board.zsnes.com/phpBB2/viewtopic ... ight=xband

I think it's unlikely, then again there is no netplay, so that's a little hard to do...

Panzer88 · Post by **Panzer88** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 6:39 am

I figured it was a longshot, but SINCE there is no netplay I thought that this may be a base for that netplay. oh well.

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:35 am

Well, the more important issue really is.. where is the ROM patch data stored. If it is stored on the XBAND cart or whatever, then extracting the patch data is probably feasible (it may be an idea to get a romhacker to do this). If it is not, then it is actually pointless.

smkdan · Post by **smkdan** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:49 am

Well, the more important issue really is.. where is the ROM patch data stored. If it is stored on the XBAND cart or whatever, then extracting the patch data is probably feasible (it may be an idea to get a romhacker to do this). If it is not, then it is actually pointless.

It's probable considering that downloading a patch everytime the user logged on with a modem that slow would be pretty frustrating for the user.

There's a fair bit of effort you'd need to get XBAND running in emulators.

-The patches for the games themselves
-The system it uses to patch the games
-The protocol it uses for transmission
-The master server it dials into

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 3:59 pm

smkdan wrote:
Well, the more important issue really is.. where is the ROM patch data stored. If it is stored on the XBAND cart or whatever, then extracting the patch data is probably feasible (it may be an idea to get a romhacker to do this). If it is not, then it is actually pointless.
It's probable considering that downloading a patch everytime the user logged on with a modem that slow would be pretty frustrating for the user.

There's a fair bit of effort you'd need to get XBAND running in emulators.

I think you are missing the point somewhat. If the patch data is always downloaded from the master server and it is not stored in any permanent form of storage such as SRAM, then there is no point. What is there to dissect if we have no data to look at?

-The patches for the games themselves

If stored on chip, yes, if not stored at all, you are SOL.

-The system it uses to patch the games

It is more like an IPS patch/patcher than anything.

-The protocol it uses for transmission

You can skip that step since..

-The master server it dials into

This most likely doesn't exist anymore. In fact, you can skip the networking step (the internal XBAND stuff) to some degree. It would be a tough chore to write any sort of code for dealing with it if we don't have patch data to play with.

Again, it is all moot if we don't have direct access to the patch data.

Panzer88 · Post by **Panzer88** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:03 pm

so how could we get access to the patch data. What steps are required. We should get some romhackers in on this.

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:07 pm

Panzer88 wrote:so how could we get access to the patch data. What steps are required. We should get some romhackers in on this.

Well, people have to analyze the damned hardware first.. which I did see some links on it, but hadn't seen any new progress.

Panzer88 · Post by **Panzer88** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:12 pm

ok, so basically get the hardware, and get it in the right hands, have it documented etc. gotcha.

smkdan · Post by **smkdan** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:47 am

I think you are missing the point somewhat. If the patch data is always downloaded from the master server and it is not stored in any permanent form of storage such as SRAM, then there is no point. What is there to dissect if we have no data to look at?

If they did, then only the original developers would be able to help out there. Neviksti's write up for the revival project a while back states that it uses SRAM and a battery to store the patches.

If stored on chip, yes, if not stored at all, you are SOL.

You're probably SOL anyway considering how many years those batteries are pushing.

It is more like an IPS patch/patcher than anything.

It could patch the game in store in seperate memory but that would've brought up the cost significantly. Apparently it only cost $20 so they must've already been selling them at a loss. The RAM you'd need probably costs more than that. I'm guessing it might work like a game genie on a large scale like when a 'patched address' is accessed, the XBAND controller returns the patched memory to the CPU.

The patch can show how the game interfaces with the XBAND hardware but I think that's it. It's up to the XBAND to connect to the server which in turn organises the games. Why wouldn't the protocol be essential? The modem has to know how interpret what it recieves.

It's also possible that the server works sort of like Kaillera where all traffic is sent to the server, and then to the players rather than the server doing just the matchmaking, and then the players dial directly into eachother. The latter would make things a fair bit easier but in the real unit it would've caused much larger phone bills.

Anyway, it probably is all moot because the patch data will be lost for good in a few years if it hasn't been already. Unless there's the off chance that an original designer wants to make it public.

Kajuru · Post by **Kajuru** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:50 am

There's a chance the patch data is still available:

...With the exception of Weaponlord, Catapult had to individually reverse engineer each game's 65816 assembly language code, then develop a hack to intercept two-player activity...

If this is true, and WeaponLord is hardpatched, then the xband related bytes (i.e. IPS), can be retrieved from inside the rom. If a good dump doesn't contain such data, maybe an Overdump does, but again that's really a wild guess. Unless some romhacker check it, we can't say if it's real internal support, or only Namco acknowledging X-Band existence.

Bent · Post by **Bent** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:53 pm

smkdan wrote:
I think you are missing the point somewhat. If the patch data is always downloaded from the master server and it is not stored in any permanent form of storage such as SRAM, then there is no point. What is there to dissect if we have no data to look at?
If they did, then only the original developers would be able to help out there. Neviksti's write up for the revival project a while back states that it uses SRAM and a battery to store the patches.

I believe he did quite a lot of work on this some time ago, I think with Ichinisan's help. He hasn't been around here in awhile though, has anyone been in contact with him?

smkdan · Post by **smkdan** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:43 pm

If this is true, and WeaponLord is hardpatched, then the xband related bytes (i.e. IPS), can be retrieved from inside the rom. If a good dump doesn't contain such data, maybe an Overdump does, but again that's really a wild guess. Unless some romhacker check it, we can't say if it's real internal support, or only Namco acknowledging X-Band existence.

Well, that inspires some hope. That is, if Namco didn't just work with Catapult to have an easier time creating a patch which would be download as normal. I'm a bit doubtful that the XBand could recognise an already patched cart since the unit has no way of knowing of future releases.

I guess if the search for a living XBand fails, there's some hope in WeaponLord. I don't know what exactly you'd be looking for, but something tells me that writes to the ROM or SRAM area(of which it has none) would provide clues because the XBand modem I/O has got to be mapped in the cartridge area to be visible to the CPU. Atleast that's what my limited knowledge tells me. Ofcourse, this area would have to be unused by the game or else it would break it. Just some minor speculation.

Panzer88 · Post by **Panzer88** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:04 pm

there is currently a SNES and a Genesis XBAND modem in two separate auctions on ebay. If I could get one or both of them would anyone have the expertise to take them apart, document them, and perhaps learn something? or would it be a total waste of time.

adventure_of_link · Post by **adventure_of_link** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:52 am

I'm probably going to get shot down for this, much less flamed, but whatever:

if all XBAND did was allowed you to play (certain) games online, isn't that what the netplay feature did?

Panzer88 · Post by **Panzer88** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:11 am

sure, but I mean it's really about documentation of hardware more than anything. I know it seems pretty pointless, but I find things like this interesting. I figure if we document and emulate game genie and action replay, why not this too (I realize you can actually use codes with those, while this just does online, which it isn't needed for)

anyways, anyone have any other thoughts on these? the auctions won't be open much longer. Does anyone else even care?

if not it's all good, it was just a thought.

EDIT: well I got the genesis one for like nothing, but the SNES guy wouldn't sell it seperate from his ENTIRE COLLECTION, and I really didn't want to try to haggle down such a good collection, or pay that much money.

In any case if anybody wants to take a look at the genesis XBAND modem just PM me with an mailing adress.

who would be able to do something with this?

EDIT2: So no one wants a free Sega Genesis XBAND Modem? (see my sig)

thoudx · Post by **thoudx** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:18 am

Anyone still reading this thread?

I sent my working SNES Xband Modem to Neviksti last year. I can't remember what he did with it (something like a ROM Dump??), and he sent it back. I now have an Xband.smc file that I can open up with the the SNES Emulator "Sleuth", which emulates everything on my particular modem perfectly... save for the connecting and playing other people things.

He sent the XBand back, but then got busy with school or something. Never heard from him again. In the meantime, I set up an Xband related site (xband411.com), and have been doing my best to keep people informed of this great piece of gaming history.

Panzer88 · Post by **Panzer88** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:17 am

I've got a genesis one just sitting in my house. if you know someone who can do something just PM me.

Post by **pagefault** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:51 pm

It's more efficient to just bypass XBAND and write your own. XBAND is limited to 2 players.

Panzer88 · Post by **Panzer88** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:38 am

pagefault wrote:It's more efficient to just bypass XBAND and write your own. XBAND is limited to 2 players.

hey... that'd be a great idea for ZSNES

CZroe · Post by **CZroe** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 6:48 pm

smkdan wrote:
If this is true, and WeaponLord is hardpatched, then the xband related bytes (i.e. IPS), can be retrieved from inside the rom. If a good dump doesn't contain such data, maybe an Overdump does, but again that's really a wild guess. Unless some romhacker check it, we can't say if it's real internal support, or only Namco acknowledging X-Band existence.
Well, that inspires some hope. That is, if Namco didn't just work with Catapult to have an easier time creating a patch which would be download as normal. I'm a bit doubtful that the XBand could recognise an already patched cart since the unit has no way of knowing of future releases.

I guess if the search for a living XBand fails, there's some hope in WeaponLord. I don't know what exactly you'd be looking for, but something tells me that writes to the ROM or SRAM area(of which it has none) would provide clues because the XBand modem I/O has got to be mapped in the cartridge area to be visible to the CPU. Atleast that's what my limited knowledge tells me. Ofcourse, this area would have to be unused by the game or else it would break it. Just some minor speculation.

I identified Killer Instinct 1.1 LONG before it was dumped because the XBAND refused to work with any copy obtained from a SNES Combo Set (Console + KI bundle). We exchanged it multiple times!

The XBAND checks the header or CRC or something and matches it with an internal list of compatible games that is updated when you connect. If you insert a game it doesn't recognize, it will tell you that "This game is not yet supported..." blah blah and will ask you if you want to connect for updates. This is how I discovered Zelda Test (did not trigger) and KI 1.1 (did trigger). When the original KI entered BETA, I was trying my XBAND multiple times a day to see when KI was added. I was home-schooled, so I usually left it connecting repeatedly all day while I did my studies. It finally just worked one day only minutes after it didn't work and I was suddenly facing NOAKITEAM1! I only paid for local service too (I don't live anywhere near The Treehouse).

adventure_of_link wrote:I'm probably going to get shot down for this, much less flamed, but whatever:

if all XBAND did was allowed you to play (certain) games online, isn't that what the netplay feature did?

You didn't play online. You directly dialed your opponent, which was VASTLY superior to the way we do it now for 2p fighting games, racing, Puzzle/Platformers, etc. Unfortunately, phone systems are increasingly less suited for low-latency direct-dial these days as the phone companies make changes that harm latencies.

Panzer88 wrote:
pagefault wrote:It's more efficient to just bypass XBAND and write your own. XBAND is limited to 2 players.
hey... that'd be a great idea for ZSNES

XBAND was limited to two consoles, but it was NOT limited to two players! It would simulate a multitap in NBA Jam for 4p matches using two consoles. Well, at least the Genesis version did (I never tried NBA Jam TE on my SNES one).

The patch was indeed stored in SRAM. It was transparant to the user, but the initial connect for a game would take about 30 seconds (or more) longer than subsequent connects. The user just assumes that it is downloading new XMAIL, Bandwidth/XBAND News updates, Personal Info, etc. Switching games would trigger the same wait, as would switching back to the original, so it was clear that it only held 1 patch in memory at a time and was totally reliant on the XBAND service. Actually, it also "patched" itself. The initial version could select default titles for messages sent to support (Select button? I forget.). After connecting once, you lost this "feature." That was a more persistent patch, but if you cleared the memory, it too would be gone. By calling support, you could get codes for clearing the passwords of each individual file or clearing the SRAM. I had a couple of the file clear codes and the SRAM clear codes before I lost the box I had them written on.

CZroe · Post by **CZroe** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 6:50 pm

thoudx wrote:Anyone still reading this thread?

I sent my working SNES Xband Modem to Neviksti last year. I can't remember what he did with it (something like a ROM Dump??), and he sent it back. I now have an Xband.smc file that I can open up with the the SNES Emulator "Sleuth", which emulates everything on my particular modem perfectly... save for the connecting and playing other people things.

He sent the XBand back, but then got busy with school or something. Never heard from him again. In the meantime, I set up an Xband related site (xband411.com), and have been doing my best to keep people informed of this great piece of gaming history.

Did he get the SRAM too? What game did you play last? Does it still have all the personal info, stats, player list, news, etc?

Post by **pagefault** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:43 pm

Our old netplay could do 4p as well with multi-tap. I see no point in emulating XBAND for the purpose of netplay.

Panzer88 · Post by **Panzer88** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:19 am

it'll be easier once a new version of zsnes comes out, and with netplay for comparison etc.

Tallgeese · Post by **Tallgeese** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:58 am

We can only hope that'll happen before everybody interested in implementing that drops out.