Best GameCube games?

[snkcube]

Since this is only the Wii's first year, we can't expect all of the past franchises to be revived this quickly. I'm sure later in its lifeline, we can expect to see more of those franchises come back to life.

[Gil_Hamilton]

assault was alright but certainly not 64 standards, I actually personally thought GX was freaking AWESOME and yet I here so many people list F-Zero X as their favorite in the series, also Miyamoto apparently wasn't to keep about GX for some reason. Still there are other series that don't look like they're doing good.

Assault was ok but it took forever to be made and was made externally, we also had to endure Starfox Adventures (not a starfox game, and I say this not just because it sucks, but because it was originally developed as a completely separate game)

I admit I have no real frame of reference for the intermediates.
I jumped straight from SNES StarFox to Assault.

FZero.... GX was my first ever. And it's damn fun, for a racing game that doesn't have a gun on the hood.

and whether you like metroid prime or not, when are we going to see the next metroid game? Metroid Prime is ending, and Retro is going to do something different so who is going to make metroid for the next system after Wii? are we going to see another handheld metroid like fusion or
zero mission?

God, I hope not.
Nintendo needs to disband their GBA Metroid team and get someone that actually LIKES Metroid to make the next game.

Sadly, if Prime 2 was any indication, they actually gave the GBA team creative control over the franchise.

like I said previously, what happened to

Pilotwings
Stunt Race FX
REAL Donkey Kong games
REAL Kirby games

Speaking of....
When is Nintendo gonna bring the Donkey Kong and DK Jr ARCADE games home? Not the cut-down NES versions.

To date, the only remotely arcade-accurate port of DK on a Nintendo system was as an extra in DK64.

are we going to see any new HARDCORE IPs or is every new IP from nintendo going to be an educational/party experience, don't get me wrong, I love Wii sports, but I want the next thing that is as compelling as Zelda or Metroid.

Well, Kid Icarus seems to be making a comeback. Not that Smash Brothers is exactly new, but for a character that's been in limbo for 2 decades, it bodes well.

[whicker]

Excite Truck is pretty much what a Stunt Race FX sequel would be. Might as well be called "Exciting Stunt Truck Race".

We do, however, need a good Pilotwings sequel.

Pikmin needs to die. And NO, it doesn't belong with the microgames for 9-Volt / 18-Volt. Classic game my ass.

[corronchilejano]

I think Metroid must make Corruption, which hopefully raps up everything, and then just die there. I didn't like how Echoes is as "a sequel" compared to prime, and making prequels is just plain old.

F-Zero? I do hope they don't further the crap about Captain Falcon being a secret agent or stupid crap like that. F-Zero is RACING, the FASTEST you can get, and I hope they keep it on that line. Nobody cares about a storyline, hell, it's like asking one for Counter strike.

Assault was supposed to be an adventure game like Bonker's wasn't it? All they did was put the Star Fox characters there, and it was supposed to be for N64 too... I do hope a real Star Fox is next. I like my ship's barrel rolling, not my Fox's dodging.

Where's my Eternal Darkness 2? Heck, make it like final fantasy, totally unrelated. And where's my Killer Instinct 3?

[Panzer88]

Excite Truck is pretty much what a Stunt Race FX sequel would be. Might as well be called "Exciting Stunt Truck Race".

TOTAL HERESY!!!!! you must not be a fan of stunt race man.

I think Metroid must make Corruption, which hopefully raps up everything, and then just die there. I didn't like how Echoes is as "a sequel" compared to prime, and making prequels is just plain old.

F-Zero? I do hope they don't further the crap about Captain Falcon being a secret agent or stupid crap like that. F-Zero is RACING, the FASTEST you can get, and I hope they keep it on that line. Nobody cares about a storyline, hell, it's like asking one for Counter strike.

Assault was supposed to be an adventure game like Bonker's wasn't it? All they did was put the Star Fox characters there, and it was supposed to be for N64 too... I do hope a real Star Fox is next. I like my ship's barrel rolling, not my Fox's dodging.

Where's my Eternal Darkness 2? Heck, make it like final fantasy, totally unrelated. And where's my Killer Instinct 3?

metroid has had a lot of pain, you are probably right with Gumpei dead maybe metroid just needs to die gracefully too before she becomes the sadness that is Sonic the Hedgehog.

I agree with you on F-Zero, blame all the Captain Falcon craptacularness on Smash Bros.

I think you meant Starfox ADVENTURES, yeah it was like a bad RARE Zelda clone that got starfox slapped on at the last minute, it was originally titles "Dinosaur Planet" then "Starfox: Dinosaur Planet" then "Starfox Adventures"

as for Eternal Darkness, they lost Silicon Knights to Microsoft so no more of that sadly, as for Killer Instinct, they lost Rare to Microsoft, sound familiar? oh and you know that great shooter team that made goldeneye and perfect dark? well they formed a company called free radical and are now making a huge FPS for PS3, hmm nintendo, dropping the ball with your second parties eh? they lost factor 5 too, it just isn't good, Factor 5 could have made a good pilotwings game.

as for my previous posts, they were a little drunk, but mostly because, I want another Stunt Race game DAMMIT!

[Gil_Hamilton]

I think Metroid must make Corruption, which hopefully raps up everything, and then just die there. I didn't like how Echoes is as "a sequel" compared to prime, and making prequels is just plain old.

That was what I meant about the gBA team being given charge of the franchise.

Primke 1 was pure unadulterated awesomeness.
Retro proved they know EXACTLY what a good Metroid game is all about.

Prime 2... has a lot of retarded shit the GBA games did first forced into it. Like a final boss battle AFTER starting a time bomb(Retro, of course, skipped the time bomb sequence entirely for Prime, which was a good call in my book).

F-Zero? I do hope they don't further the crap about Captain Falcon being a secret agent or stupid crap like that. F-Zero is RACING, the FASTEST you can get, and I hope they keep it on that line. Nobody cares about a storyline, hell, it's like asking one for Counter strike.

But what's my MOTIVATION for killing the terrorists?

Seriously, even if you slap a plot on, it's still fast cars go boom.

Assault was supposed to be an adventure game like Bonker's wasn't it? All they did was put the Star Fox characters there, and it was supposed to be for N64 too...

No.
Assault was planes and tanks with a side dishe of Robotron-style run-n-gun. And was started well after the N64 was killed.

And there were even some levels where you could swap between planes, tanks, and run-n-gun at will.
It was kinda funny to take an Arwing and go strafe a swarm of on-foot villains with it.
...
Or just steamroll 'em with a Landmaster. Actually, that was probably more fun.




Pity Namco's arcade Star Fox never came out.

I do hope a real Star Fox is next. I like my ship's barrel rolling, not my Fox's dodging.

You'd probably like Assault, then.
Though it had a mix, it had a good deal of vehicular mayhem. And the decency to still be fast-paced while on foot.

as for Eternal Darkness, they lost Silicon Knights to Microsoft so no more of that sadly, as for Killer Instinct, they lost Rare to Microsoft, sound familiar? oh and you know that great shooter team that made goldeneye and perfect dark? well they formed a company called free radical and are now making a huge FPS for PS3, hmm nintendo, dropping the ball with your second parties eh? they lost factor 5 too, it just isn't good, Factor 5 could have made a good pilotwings game.

A few brief questions...
How long was Perfect Dark 2 in development? What sort of shape was it in when it came out?
How about Kameo? How many systems was THAT ONE developed for?

Rare had N64 games rolled over to the 'Cube, then to the XBox, then to the 360, then MS had to force a release to get anything out of them, and at least one of the games STILL wasn't ready. After a DECADE in development.

Nintendo ditched their share of Rare because Rare wasn't taking their job seriously any more.
And MS kinda got screwed, since most of the talent had left well before they bought Rare(which is probably why Rare wasn't releasing anything).

The Free Radical guys jumped ship over a year before Perfect Dark was finished, and the game was completely redesigned after they left, so it's HIGHLY debatable whether they deserve credit for PD.

And Nintendo couldn't actually FORCE Rare's employees to stick around, so I'm not sure how you have any real point there.



Silicon Knights wasn't exactly making waves either. They signed an exclusivity deal in 1998, and released NOTHING for four years.
And after Eternal Darkness, they took 2 years to do a port of a PS1 game. That absolutely EVERYONE had already played.
So Nintendo basically got ONE game out of them in six years.
Yeah, they REALLY dropped the ball there...

[snkcube]

AFAIK, Perfect Dark 2 was never announced or in development at all. I remember seeing a tech demo featuring Joanna Dark a while back for the GameCube, but that was it. The only PD game after the first was Perfect Dark Zero. Kameo: Elements of Power became a launch title for the Xbox 360. It was originally developed for the GameCube and then the original Xbox.

If you guys want to know the real reason Silicon Knights left Nintendo, check out this interesting interview.

[corronchilejano]

Reasonable enough. They want they're games to be the bread n' butter... although as time passes, it won't really matter much.

[grinvader]

a final boss battle AFTER starting a time bomb

I thought that was pretty nice, heh. It only made the battle more intense. Of course I don't exactly suck at it, so I don't have any frustration to refine that opinion.
Has anyone ever lost because of the timer itself (instead of getting their ass slammed into the ground by darkjunkie) ?

Nah, the gripes I have with Echoes are the ammo-based side weapons (and that's why they're just side weapons), plus the very limited usefulness of some stuff. And of course the Prime-only element of having scans you can miss.

Oh well.

[Gil_Hamilton]

AFAIK, Perfect Dark 2 was never announced or in development at all. I remember seeing a tech demo featuring Joanna Dark a while back for the GameCube, but that was it. The only PD game after the first was Perfect Dark Zero. Kameo: Elements of Power became a launch title for the Xbox 360. It was originally developed for the GameCube and then the original Xbox.

If you guys want to know the real reason Silicon Knights left Nintendo, check out this interesting interview.

I KNOW PDZero is the only other PD game. And I'm pretty sure that one STARTED on the N64.
I KNOW Kameo did.

a final boss battle AFTER starting a time bomb

I thought that was pretty nice, heh. It only made the battle more intense. Of course I don't exactly suck at it, so I don't have any frustration to refine that opinion.
Has anyone ever lost because of the timer itself (instead of getting their ass slammed into the ground by darkjunkie) ?

Nah, the gripes I have with Echoes are the ammo-based side weapons (and that's why they're just side weapons), plus the very limited usefulness of some stuff. And of course the Prime-only element of having scans you can miss.

Oh well.

I lost to the timer on Dark Samus once. She just refused to throw phazon rocks in my direction.


It's a bad mix of paradigms. There's a reason it never happened while Yokoi was around*. If it was really that good of an idea, it would've happened in Super Metroid(much like Mother Brain was upgraded into a real boss).
And in 3D a boss is more fun than a platforming escape sequence, which is why Prime 1 ended with the Prime battle and just hinted at an escape sequence.



Prime 2 was just like Fusion and Zero in that regard.

GBA team said "We need a timed escape for the final scene, because that's what Metroid DOES! And we need a final boss because games have to have final bosses! Therefore, we have to have a timed final boss!"(At least the space pirate duo in Zero was fairly innocuous. The hulk-ified omega metroid had no business being on a timer... but let's not go there. I could pick at Fusion all day.)

Retro was left to pick up the pieces, and hacked in a continue point at the Ing Emperor's death so people wouldn't be TOO pissed.
The fact that it was special-cased like that is a pretty good indicator that it was a bad idea.



I didn't have too much of an issue with the light + dark beams, save running out of annihilator ammo during the Emperor Ing fight. It's easy to keep them loaded in most circumstances.

My main gripe with Prime 2 is that I never got to use the base power suit.
The Varia is ugly!



*Not that Yokoi was pefect. I'm still trying to figure out what the point of Metroid 2's escape sequence was. Maybe to show that metroids can eat rocks, but it was far too long for that.

[Panzer88]

everyone loves Prime 1 so much but there really wasn't that much to it, the platforming was so easy it was sad, and the lack of speed boots, wall jumps, and screw attack took half of the gameplay right there. You couldn't stack and equip/unequip weapons/gear and it just wasn't nearly as cinematic visually or audibly to me. Super Metroid had a more epic opening if you ask me.

[blackmyst]

everyone loves Prime 1 so much but there really wasn't that much to it, the platforming was so easy it was sad, and the lack of speed boots, wall jumps, and screw attack took half of the gameplay right there. You couldn't stack and equip/unequip weapons/gear and it just wasn't nearly as cinematic visually or audibly to me. Super Metroid had a more epic opening if you ask me.

I'm sorry, but everything you just said is completely horrible and wrong.

[Panzer88]

care to explain?

[Gil_Hamilton]

everyone loves Prime 1 so much but there really wasn't that much to it, the platforming was so easy it was sad, and the lack of speed boots, wall jumps, and screw attack took half of the gameplay right there. You couldn't stack and equip/unequip weapons/gear and it just wasn't nearly as cinematic visually or audibly to me.

Never stopped people from enjoying the first 2 games.

Hell, Metroid 2 STILL holds up pretty well. IMO, it's as good as Super. Despite having no walljumps, cinematics, speed booster, stacked weapons, or disablable upgrades.


Stacking beams.... was a gimmick in Super Metroid.
How often did you do anything besides turn on everything(except the spazer once you got plasma)?
Disabling powerups in general was an even bigger gimmick(though I HAVE been known to run around with a disabled varia/grav suit, despite the much larger damage... BASE SUIT FOREVER!).
It was a neat touch, but an ultimately useless one.

Wall jumps were HARDLY a necessary addition. They exist only for sequence breaking faster than bomb-jumping, and not even that in the GBA games.


The speed booster WAS there. It's just a morph ball ability instead of a main suit ability, possibly because you have better high-speed control in ball form.

Cinematically, Prime totally STOMPS everything before it. How you can claim Super is more cinematic is beyond me.



BTW, you'll find, if you think about it, that the powerups present in Prime were the ones that made the most sense in a first-person perspective game. Double-jump made more sense than high jump, and an infinite jump would've been a disaster given the limited positional control available.
When they implemented the space jump/screw attack in Prime 2, it was a largely linear attack. Can't gain a lot of height or change directions(very much, or at all?). Not very space jump-y at all. And the wall jump that was part of that was similarly restrictive, since it was only usable at specific points where special wall panels were placed. It was a flash move with little substance.


But, of course, none of that is relevant to your general point, which seems to be "Prime sux becuz itz not Supar Metroid!111"

[Panzer88]

no, that's not my point, I don't think that Super Metroid should be the pinacle of the series, even though I did love the game. I just saw everyone else loving Prime, hey man I wanted to love it just as much? so why didn't I? I have no vendetta against Prime, or Retro Studios at all.

It just felt like what was being slowly built on was taken away, great control that was once there was no longer there.

as far as cinematic what I meant was like the intro for example, they catch you up on the story via samus herself showing a montage, the music also is such a full score. Then when you get the the space station the mist and everything is very atmospheric and moody. In Prime the space station was exactly the same way, only when you arrive it just feels slow and the music just doesn't have as much... meat on it, it isn't as full. The whole station feels like a game tutorial rather than part of the story. Also when Samus dies in SM you hear the suit malfunction, and then it bursts off and you hear her scream, and then you see the poor little metroid. In Prime you see static, and then a picture of her shattered visor, cool, but not as cool, no scream or like actually seeing the visor crack in game. Then again that is made up for by seeing her face reflected in the visor, nice touch.

I admit the Prime Title screen and accompanying music is great, landing on the planet is great, the visor, visor effects, and visor systems are all great, and I LOVE that they brought back the spiderball, which was a big thing missing in Super Metroid.

The weapons though felt like rock paper scissors (even if they had pretty effects) because it's not side scrolling you don't have puzzles like shooting through walls to open a door and stuff like that. I don't know what to say, I totally agree that the wall jumping in prime 2 is linear, that's RIGHT you can't DO anything with it. I just feel so limited, you can't just run for 50 meters and start glowing and fly off into the sky, I mean, I think THAT, in first person would be awesome. you can't say that the speed ball is like the speed boots, it's not even a close comparison.

I don't think that weapon stacking is gimmicky at all, sometimes you want ice, sometimes you don't , sometimes you want three shots, sometimes you don't but you can have any combo you want rather than having to constantly change between them all. I just felt like it gave me freedom, and why take something away that is so easy to keep.

lets face it, all metroid games excluding prime are extensive platformers, that is what I enjoyed, I'm not trying to be retro, I'm not saying only super metroid is the best, but if what you love about a game is platforming, and there is such a minimal amount in the sequel it just isn't the same. I felt like there wasn't as much space for aimless wandering and discovering that I felt in past titles. Mario kept the platforming so why can't metroid (to the same degree)?

There are other things too, but I DO realize it all comes down to personal preference and what I like or you like doesn't matter, but what I think does matter is consistent progression in a series, maintaining the good old, while building on top of that system.

Sure if the old was crap, change it, like RE controls, but I don't think anyone can say there was that much wrong with Metroid that just NEEDED to be changed ya know?

I don't know, I'm sure you are right, growing up on the series prolly twists my vision a bit (yes I played the first two games extensively also)

beleive me when I say this is coming from a heart of a Metroid fan, I'm not saying Prime is a bad game, I just don't think it is as good as most people hype it to be, I'm going to continue buying metroid games, and I'm excited about Prime 3, I still play Prime, I just wish that it had been more, because, well, it COULD have.

[snkcube]

I'm sure there can be more platforming in a 3D Metroid game, but not in a first person perspective. You just can't get the feeling of platforming if it's in a first person view. Platforming in 3D Mario games worked because it was in a third person perspective.

[Panzer88]

I guess there-in lies the problem, I'm not anti first person, and it is very atmospheric, but if it is basically going to mame of the gameplay then something is wrong with it.

it was said somewhere recently, maybe IGN, that with the new aiming and targeting system in Prime 3 they could easily make the whole game in 3rd person without losing any performance, I think that'd be a GREAT idea for future titles, but it'll never happen.

[Joe Camacho]

I liked Prime a lot more than Echoes, during the summer I take a "Talon IV Vacation" and play Prime all over again.

It hasn't happened with Echoes. Maybe it's the enviroments (I felt that the torvus? borg and agon wastes were very much the same, the Light Aether Fortress was awesome), probably the ammo system (I really didn't like it, specially how you refilled it), or the frustrating (LOL sucks at morph ball usage) spider ball boss.

But I really liked the introduction, at the Space Marine camp. I usually just make new games to play that part.

Echoes is a good game, but not as good as Prime, I'm afraid.

[Gil_Hamilton]

as far as cinematic what I meant was like the intro for example, they catch you up on the story via samus herself showing a montage, the music also is such a full score.

You know what that montage is called in TV? A clip episode.
It's the kind of episode everyone hates because it's a waste of a perfectly good half-hour.

The music was nice, but the sequence itself was a fairly annoying waste of time.

Then when you get the the space station the mist and everything is very atmospheric and moody. In Prime the space station was exactly the same way, only when you arrive it just feels slow and the music just doesn't have as much... meat on it, it isn't as full. The whole station feels like a game tutorial rather than part of the story.

It felt relevant to me.

The weapons though felt like rock paper scissors (even if they had pretty effects) because it's not side scrolling you don't have puzzles like shooting through walls to open a door and stuff like that.

You mean like having to track down the hidden sensors to power up a door, or activating the laser cannon to blow away the rock hiding the door?

I don't know what to say, I totally agree that the wall jumping in prime 2 is linear, that's RIGHT you can't DO anything with it.

Wall-jumping is limited in everything except Super Metroid. And in there it's useless, except for sequence-breaking(which is actually fairly baffling, given Nintendo's tried to STOP sequence-breaking in every other incarnation).

I just feel so limited, you can't just run for 50 meters and start glowing and fly off into the sky, I mean, I think THAT, in first person would be awesome.

Actually it'd be pretty lame(Hey, why is my screen constantly flaring out and coming back? And HOLY CRAP I'M HAVING A SEIZURE!). And hard to direct.
The camera pulling out so you saw Samus go Superman in 3rd-person would look a lot less lame, but it'd still be hard to aim.

you can't say that the speed ball is like the speed boots, it's not even a close comparison.

I can and I do. The shine spark move was NOT the definitive attribute of the speed booster, or even a particularly useful attribute of it. The ability to go fast and hurt stuff by ramming through it was the definitive attribute, and the Prime speed booster achieved that effect.

I don't think that weapon stacking is gimmicky at all, sometimes you want ice, sometimes you don't , sometimes you want three shots, sometimes you don't but you can have any combo you want rather than having to constantly change between them all. I just felt like it gave me freedom, and why take something away that is so easy to keep.

Because they wanted to explore a different style of gameplay?
Prime is fundamentally different than Super Metroid.
Much like Super Metroid is fundamentally different than Metroid 2(what with 2 being an exceedingly linear game and Super being designed with exploration and sequence-breaking in mind).


I never saw a problem with beam swapping. Visor-swapping yes(about the only major flaw I saw in the game), but not beam swapping.

lets face it, all metroid games excluding prime are extensive platformers, that is what I enjoyed, I'm not trying to be retro, I'm not saying only super metroid is the best, but if what you love about a game is platforming, and there is such a minimal amount in the sequel it just isn't the same. I felt like there wasn't as much space for aimless wandering and discovering that I felt in past titles. Mario kept the platforming so why can't metroid (to the same degree)?

A. I HATE 3D platforming. It's an intrinsically messy proposition, what with the lack of accurate depth perception.

B. Tallon IV is PERFECT for aimless wandering around. I did exactly that at many points, just admiring the scenery(or trying to remember where I saw that chunk of bendezium with a powerup behind it...).

C. I view all metroid games as action-adventures. The platforming aspects are fairly weak, IMO.

There are other things too, but I DO realize it all comes down to personal preference and what I like or you like doesn't matter, but what I think does matter is consistent progression in a series, maintaining the good old, while building on top of that system.

Sure if the old was crap, change it, like RE controls, but I don't think anyone can say there was that much wrong with Metroid that just NEEDED to be changed ya know?

Funny thing about 3D... it's a fundamentally different approach to gaming, and the old 2D paradigms don't work.

Having never played any RE other than 4 for any significant amoutn fo time, I can't really comment in depth on the control issues or lack thereof.

I don't know, I'm sure you are right, growing up on the series prolly twists my vision a bit (yes I played the first two games extensively also)

beleive me when I say this is coming from a heart of a Metroid fan, I'm not saying Prime is a bad game, I just don't think it is as good as most people hype it to be, I'm going to continue buying metroid games, and I'm excited about Prime 3, I still play Prime, I just wish that it had been more, because, well, it COULD have.

What do you think I grew up on?
Not EVERYONE here is younger than the NES.

Sure I was late. I got my NES era at the end of the system's life(actually AFTER my SNES), so I played Metroid 2 first. But I've played through every game in the series except the 1.5 DS games(c'mon, Metroid Pinball doesn't count as a full Metroid game), and consider most of them must-have titles for any collection.


I even played through Fusion three times searching for redeeming value before I sold it off(largely to prevent ANOTHER check for hidden quality). I couldn't believe a Metroid game would be so bad.
....
Well, except during the development cycle, when I was one of the people that was fairly sure Prime would suck super monkey balls(though I was also one of the people that extended it the benefit of the doubt, since we couldn't really say for sure that it sucked until we'd actually PLAYED it) and the GBA's Metroid 4 would be the one true sequel.

Kinda funny how that one turned out, given I think Prime is one of 2 worth buying a system for and Fusion is best left forgotten.

I guess there-in lies the problem, I'm not anti first person, and it is very atmospheric, but if it is basically going to mame of the gameplay then something is wrong with it.

It only maims the gameplay if you come in expecting something exactly like what you had in the 2D incarnations.

Mario 64 is NOTHING like a 2D Mario game. And you cited it as an example of a good transition. Prime is WAY closer to 2D Metroid than Mario 64 is to 2D Mario.

[creaothceann]

I don't know what to say, I totally agree that the wall jumping in prime 2 is linear, that's RIGHT you can't DO anything with it.

Wall-jumping is limited in everything except Super Metroid. And in there it's useless, except for sequence-breaking(which is actually fairly baffling, given Nintendo's tried to STOP sequence-breaking in every other incarnation).

Not so much in Zero Mission - just take a look at the TAS videos.

[Panzer88]

you made some great points Gil, and I felt I did too, I guess we both enjoy the series for 2 completely different things, I enjoy it for it's platforming and as the series progressed for it's metroidvania-ness, to me Prime is good, better than a 3D Castlevania by far, but still not what I'd hoped for.

Sure mario may not be the same, but it certainly contains a lot of the same mechanics and enjoyment for me. If any game that Nintendo made had a really good transition it is Zelda but that's because it was a top down adventure at first anyways, lending itself to 3D.

I just wish like Castlevania, there was still a really talented team making the oldschool games also. I also wish that someone would give a try at a third person 3D metroid as I do feel it would allow you to see and use being able to see Samus to do a lot of stuff not possible otherwise.

anyways, no sense in going on about it anymore. in conclusion just so you know, I'm not a fan of Fusion at ALL, there are a lot of things that bug me, but I did end up throughly enjoying Zero Mission. I think another fundamental difference we have is I'd enjoy a series maintaining the majority of the foundation it had before if it was a good one, and furthering that existing experience. I mean that may be old fashion but it really works for zelda if you ask me. But I can respect, and even acknowledge that it is a more forward way of thinking to embrace a complete redesign of a franchise, and that is perfectly acceptable overall.

[Gil_Hamilton]

you made some great points Gil, and I felt I did too, I guess we both enjoy the series for 2 completely different things, I enjoy it for it's platforming and as the series progressed for it's metroidvania-ness, to me Prime is good, better than a 3D Castlevania by far, but still not what I'd hoped for.

I'm not sure you can call a Metroid game a Metroidvania, given the term's origins as a label for Metroid-ish Castlevanias. .

And the only 3D Castlevania I've played(second XBox one) sucked ass, so agreed.

I just wish like Castlevania, there was still a really talented team making the oldschool games also. I also wish that someone would give a try at a third person 3D metroid as I do feel it would allow you to see and use being able to see Samus to do a lot of stuff not possible otherwise.

I'm skeptical at the benefits of 3rd-person 3D vs 1st-person for Metroid. It'd allow for a jumpier game, but a lot of the stuff would still be fairly limited, relatively speaking.

anyways, no sense in going on about it anymore. in conclusion just so you know, I'm not a fan of Fusion at ALL, there are a lot of things that bug me, but I did end up throughly enjoying Zero Mission. I think another fundamental difference we have is I'd enjoy a series maintaining the majority of the foundation it had before if it was a good one, and furthering that existing experience. I mean that may be old fashion but it really works for zelda if you ask me. But I can respect, and even acknowledge that it is a more forward way of thinking to embrace a complete redesign of a franchise, and that is perfectly acceptable overall.

Zero Mission felt like it was trying too hard to Fusion-ifiy the original to me. Which lead to weird stuff like the Varia being a required upgrade, but tucked away in the middle of nowhere.

The map statues just offended me. They didn't even TRY for the subtle guiding of .... every other non-GBA game(Prime 1 supplemented this with LOTS of hint prompts, but no rational being leaves them enabled).
On the upside, they didn't lock all the doors every time you got a new toy either. They just told you "Now go here. But if you don't, it's okay.... we guess..." So that's a major point in it's favor.

And damn.... I know they were probably reacting to complaints about the Prime metroids being weak little sissies, but the Zero metroids were INSANE.


On a less rational note: I WANT MY OLD CUDDLY KRAID AND RIDLEY BACK, DAMMMIT!


Overall Zero left a far less offensive impression on me than Fusion. It just didn't do anything FOR me either.


But yeah.... I like to see a multi-faceted approach.
One of the things that bugs me about the polygon era is the almost instantaneous eradication of anything even remotely 2D.

'S also why I haven't grabbed MetroidL Hunters. I played the demo, and I don't think the Prime style works on the DS.
...
Not that I want to see a DS game done by the people that brought us Fusion.




And after alll this, I WILL give the Fusion guys credit. The auto-dash is something that probably should've been in Super.

[The Puppet Of Jenova]

The best Gamecube games? Thats easy!
The awesomest of all Gamecube games is Baten Kaitos. Second place goes to Baten Kaitos Origins. Honerable mentions are:
Skies of Arcadia Legends
Tales of Symphonia
Super Smash Brothers Meelee
Metroid Prime
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles