LOL Thread 3 - Return of the LOL

Post by **odditude** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:28 pm

who had that facepalm collage? i think it would be fitting.

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:31 pm

odditude wrote:who had that facepalm collage? i think it would be fitting.

Clements did IIRC.

Really, this is the worst reverse Al Gore discussion ever.

Johan_H · Post by **Johan_H** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:40 pm

Deathlike2 wrote: It is also one of the most funny random diatribes.

CO2 isn't generated by ice melting. Really. It's generated from your ass.

Who says it is?
And our asses generate methane more than CO2, don't they?

ZH/Franky · Post by **ZH/Franky** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:43 pm

CO2 isn't generated by ice melting

Ok, now I have a question; is it that you actually misread what I say, or is it that what I say is incorrect?

Because I think you'll find I said that the increased CO2 people talk about nowadays is caused by extra SOLAR ACTIVITY. You know, the thing that happens in that tiny little star you see in the sky. It's called the sun.

Clements · Post by **Clements** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:50 pm

Solar activity does not totally account for current increases in temperature and CO2 levels.

Reference:

Lockwood, M; Fröhlich, C. (2007) Recent oppositely directed trends in solar climate forcings and the global mean surface air temperature. Proceedings of the Royal Society A 463: 2447

http://publishing.royalsociety.org/medi ... 071880.pdf

All climatologists worth their salt agree with this. Where's your references to peer-reviewed articles, Franky?

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:51 pm

Johan_H wrote:
Deathlike2 wrote: It is also one of the most funny random diatribes.

CO2 isn't generated by ice melting. Really. It's generated from your ass.
Who says it is?
And our asses generate methane more than CO2, don't they?

It's either that or burping. I know people generate CO2.. that's for sure.

Anyways, this is converted back into O2 with the trees. That is the resource that keeps on giving anyways.

Johan_H · Post by **Johan_H** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:51 pm

Can you explain how in the hell simply more heat can create CO2? Where do you get this information?

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:03 pm

Well, it's built on a kernel of truth. The rising* global temperatures are well within the geologically established pattern of warming and cooling.

Now, claiming the sun makes CO2... that's a bit more of a stretch.

And as paradoxical as it sounds, rising global temperatures BEGAN the ice age. They didn't END it. Well, they did, but not the way Franky presents it.

There's also an argument that we're past the point of no return ANYWAYS. The thawing of permafrost in the far north releases VERY large amounts of CO2, and it could easily get out of control rapidly from that point.

And of course, there's large methane hydrate deposits under the sea.
A large disturbance could disrupt them, releasing tremendous amounts of methane into the atmosphere. There's a belief this may've been the cause of the permian extinction.

We're actually not that bad, geologically speaking.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ice_ ... rature.png

Longer-term, we're actually seeing an overall COOLING of the Earth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Five ... Change.png

*Some evidence indicates we're actually moving into in the "getting colder" phase now. We MAY have passed the peak. Or we might just be in a short-term fluctuation of the long-term trend. Hard to tell, really.

Personally, I'd like to see some SERIOUS discussion of the issue, and not just constant finger-pointing.
Blaming all climate shifts on human activity and human generation of greenhouse gasses in a historically unstable climate sems.... near-sighted and vain.

And I'd ESPECIALLY like to see people quit immediately dismissing the other side when there's still a good deal of room for debate.

The basic underlying problem is that we don't really understand what drives climate shifts.
So we really have no way of determining if a given shift is natural or due to man-made conditions.

ANYWAYS... alcohol DOES burn cleaner than gasoline in other respects too.
As someone with respiratory disease, I think a reduction of air pollution is an excellent goal to shoot for, placing me in the same reduction-of-emissions camp anyways.
Funny how "I cannot breathe" is a much stronger motivator than "my great-grandchildren might live on a significantly warmer planet."

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:06 pm

Gil_Hamilton wrote:ANYWAYS... alcohol DOES burn cleaner than gasoline in other respects too.
As someone with respiratory disease, I think a reduction of air pollution is an excellent goal to shoot for, placing me in the same reduction-of-emissions camp anyways.
Funny how "I cannot breathe" is a much stronger motivator than "my great-grandchildren might live on a significantly warmer planet."

Can't argue that. I don't want smog infesting the area. There's plenty of disgusting examples that need not mention.

Joe Camacho · Post by **Joe Camacho** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:12 pm

Man, what the fuck, I go to sleep, go to school, go to the office and when I come back, some fucker turned a topic about ALCOHOL into GLOBAL WARMING.

What the hell is wrong with you guys.

adventure_of_link · Post by **adventure_of_link** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:16 pm

Franky wrote:Well, other than a fuel for engines (as I mentioned earlier), please tell me a purpose for alcohol. Though I said alcohol can be used as a fuel, petrol/diesel are far superior, which makes alcohol obsolete for that purpose. So, tell me what purpose alcohol has, please.

Well, E85 sucks and people still burn it.. not to mention Diesel engines make that noise where you can barely tell if the engine is going bad.

Personally, I'd like to see a vehicle being fueled by alcohol.

Post by **odditude** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:32 pm

Joe Camacho wrote:Man, what the fuck, I go to sleep, go to school, go to the office and when I come back, some fucker turned a topic about ALCOHOL into GLOBAL WARMING.

What the hell is wrong with you guys.

Need a beer, Laywerman? I could sure as hell go for one!

declan · Post by **declan** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:50 am

I fully agree with Franky about this "global warming" rubbish.

-CO2 is a plant food.

->CO2=>biodiversity

-Al Gore's (or however the fuck you spell his name) graphs, showing how the tempriture increases with CO2 levels, a jigged.

-the level of CO2 in the atmosphere increases as temp. rises, not the other way arround! The delay between the increase CO2 and temp. is about 800 years. Hence the CO2 levels are rising now (because of the medieval warming period about 700 years ago, due to SOLAR activity)

.exit

Joe Camacho · Post by **Joe Camacho** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 3:34 am

odditude wrote:
Joe Camacho wrote:Man, what the fuck, I go to sleep, go to school, go to the office and when I come back, some fucker turned a topic about ALCOHOL into GLOBAL WARMING.

What the hell is wrong with you guys.
Need a beer, Laywerman? I could sure as hell go for one!

I'll tell you what, you come pick me up, I'll buy the first beer case.

Post by **badinsults** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 3:44 am

Man, this is the most hilarious thread on this board in years.

Really, the amount of ignorance spewed out here makes me shed a tear at the fate of our species. Especially when it started to get into the whole climate change denier thing. Wow, just wow.

Please, continue.

mudlord · Post by **mudlord** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:02 am

Franky wrote:
...blah blah blah.

We are still waiting on your empirical evidence. Or proper peer-reviewed papers on the subject.

Oh fuck you, I'm fine. Don't treat me like a child, please.

Still, Johan raises a valid point. The way you present yourself says otherwise that you are fine....

Clements · Post by **Clements** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:40 am

I'm just going to get the popcorn now. This is pure brilliance!

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:16 am

Speaking of climate shifts and idiocy...

<Taran_Wanderer> You can look up what they're going to name hurricanes
<YP> I wish they'd bring hurricane mewtwo back :[
<The_984> Hurricanes should be named after Pokemon
<DonutKnight> In other news, Hurricane Magikarp has decimated New Orleans
<DonutKnight> More at 11
<The_984> Magikarp used SPLASH
<The_984> It was super effective

SquareHead · Post by **SquareHead** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:25 pm

mudlord wrote:
It's not that I don't like other people; I just don't know how to deal with them.
For me, trying to socialize is like trying to speak russian.

I'm able to talk to people... but only about a few different things. Well, it's hard to explain...
Don't say any more, I understand entirely.

I recommend seeing a psychologist. Seriously, it does help. It helped me....

Been there done that seen a psychologist, took meds. If that works for you more power to you. I found I killed my major issues with social anxiety by taking a job where I had to work and interact with the public. Putting myself at the front desk of a hotel all but killed it. It took a couple years, and had a few hard moments, but all in all I figure it was worth it.

ZH/Franky · Post by **ZH/Franky** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:14 pm

mudlord wrote:
Franky wrote:
...blah blah blah.
We are still waiting on your empirical evidence. Or proper peer-reviewed papers on the subject.

Please watch "The Great Global Warming Swindle":
http://www.garagetv.be/video-galerij/bl ... mpjeExtern

I do not currently have any peer-reviewed papers to link to, however the people in this video are skilled and talented scientists, and I'm pretty darn sure they fully know what they are talking about. Based on this, I'm sure there are research papers out there, and when I find them, I will link them in this thread.

Most of the whole "global warming" scare is actually based purely on moral panic; we use all these different technologies every day, and all of a sudden it's considered that these things are actually harming the planet. The bullshit of that theory aside, the only thing that needs to be done is to convince the public that this scandal is actually truth.
And, history tells us that the public are easy to convince; just look back hundreds of years ago when religion played a huge role in general society, for example. Look at current affairs; instead of the church, we have the media telling us what to believe.
Yes, the media. Link the media+people-watching-it and global warming; you'll see what I'm talking about after watching the film I link to above. In a very real sense, the current doctrine about global warming is like a religious doctrine.

funkyass · Post by **funkyass** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:30 pm

Try again Franky. A simply reply to that movie is Al Gore's An Inconvenient Truth.

The onus is on you to find the papers and evidence to support your position, we aren't going to do it for you, at most we are going to read what you provide, we aren't going to watch movies, and we aren't going discuss conspiracy theories without proof.

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:33 pm

Franky wrote:I do not currently have any peer-reviewed papers to link to, however the people in this video are skilled and talented scientists, and I'm pretty darn sure they fully know what they are talking about. Based on this, I'm sure there are research papers out there, and when I find them, I will link them in this thread.

You base this on "you believe these people". I'm sure that will bring confidence to that argument. I'll just find scientists that'll agree with whatever Al Gore says and another group that will disagree with whatever Al Gore says. I mean.. that's just groundbreaking research!

Most of the whole "global warming" scare is actually based purely on moral panic; we use all these different technologies every day, and all of a sudden it's considered that these things are actually harming the planet. The bullshit of that theory aside, the only thing that needs to be done is to convince the public that this scandal is actually truth.
And, history tells us that the public are easy to convince; just look back hundreds of years ago when religion played a huge role in general society, for example. Look at current affairs; instead of the church, we have the media telling us what to believe.
Yes, the media. Link the media+people-watching-it and global warming; you'll see what I'm talking about after watching the film I link to above. In a very real sense, the current doctrine about global warming is like a religious doctrine.

You do realize that there IS an impact when people pollute? I'm not even suggesting that it will go to global-warming "projected" proportions, but there have been evidence to suggest changes in the enviornment that is actually measurable.

ZH/Franky · Post by **ZH/Franky** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:34 pm

conspiracy theories

That's exactly the problem. People are told something and they favour that. Then, the truth is dubbed "conspiracy". I don't really care if you don't believe it, but if I find those papers, I will post them.
Watching this entire film anyway, and compare the way it's presented to your average con theory. Also, have a look at the type of people explaining everything, and what they actually talk about.

A simply reply to that movie is Al Gore's An Inconvenient Truth.

Without actually watching the documentary first? Keep in mind that this film was aired on public TV, on channel four (in the UK). I don't think "conspiracy theories" are ever aired on TV.
Btw, Al Gore is a politician, not a scientist.

Though I can't currently link to any research papers, the film I link to shows the same figures that you would actually find in these research papers. Please, for #^%$$ sake, stop calling me a conspiracy nut and just watch the documentary.

Post by **badinsults** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:52 pm

It will be difficult to find papers that are contrary to global warming, considering there are virtually no respected scientists that are against it. The only ones who are against global warming are nutjobs who have been largely funded by those who stand to gain from the status quo.

Franky, I suggest you read the IPCC report, which is probably the most peer reviewed scientific document ever created. It is the result of thosands of atmospheric scientists, ocean scientists, paleo-climatologists, geologists and geophysicists coming together to create a policy report on where we stand with man-made global warming situation. Their conclusion that that the warming observed during the past 150 years is largely the result of human activities, and most of that is due to CO2 and methane emissions. The IPCC report was approved by every government in the UN, including the United States and the United Kingdom. That means that the government of your country agrees that man made global warming is happening, and that it is signficant.

As for the "The Great Global Warming Swindle", the federal court system in the UK largely struck down its findings as being false and misleading. It is not peer reviewed, and should not be used as evidence for man made global warming being a hoax.

Long term changes in the Earth's climate are controlled by plate tectonics and Milankovich cycles. However, by land use change and carbon emissions, humans now stand as the main cause of global climate change. The changes are very dramatic, especially on the geologic time scales that we typically look at. Climate scientists predict a 2-5 degree increase in global temperatures in the next 100 years, which is probably the largest change in temperature that has happened in the past 10,000 years.

funkyass · Post by **funkyass** » Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:55 pm

Franky wrote: Though I can't currently link to any research papers, the film I link to shows the same figures that you would actually find in these research papers.

Find the papers. much better than a "movie", or a "documentary" because we can read the facts without the editorial.