Another "sound rape" bug in FF VI (in Thamasa)

Andreas_N · Post by **Andreas_N** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:01 pm

I think I've found one of those so-called "sound rape" bugs, it's the sound of the burning house in Thamasa after I arrive there with Tina (= Terra, I use the RPGOne V1.2 translation, but I also tried a japanese headerless ROM with good checksum, no diff.), Lock and Shadow, talk to Strago and sleep at the inn. I've tested with SnesGT, snes9x and SNEeSe, all sound different from zsnes at this point (and better). But this emulator is the only one I know with rewind feature, so I won't use another one.

(The sound of Lock falling out of his bed before they leave the inn also seems a little muffled, compared to the other emulators, but maybe that's just my imagination, or it's supposed to sound that way ... well, it's not that important, but you can compare that too if you like to.)

I searched the forums for "Thamasa", but it found nothing, so I think it's a new one, not yet found, bug. I uploaded a SRM and ZST savestate at rapidshare, if you need any other files, please tell me.

snkcube · Post by **snkcube** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:41 pm

Could you post your ROM info using NSRT?

Aerdan · Post by **Aerdan** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:04 am

If you can't demonstrate clearly that it is, in fact, a bug with ZSNES, and not just with your brain/memory, please go away.

Likewise, if you can't get a recording of how the SNES plays it, please go away.

Starman Ghost · Post by **Starman Ghost** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:13 am

Show some respect Aerdan. If it wasn't for him we wouldn't have sdd-1(s-dd1, whatever) emulation.

Joe Camacho · Post by **Joe Camacho** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:14 am

Have you tried using BSNES? I have heard it has a better sound emulation core/thingy.

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:48 am

I recall the fire being a bit off in ZSNES...

pagefault has suggested to use SNEESE as the best sound reference (it does have a better sound core).

Andreas_N · Post by **Andreas_N** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:49 am

snkcube wrote: Could you post your ROM info using NSRT?

Well, the RPGOne translation has a bad checksum, of course, but here is the data for the japanese ROM, where it also happened.

---------------------Internal ROM Info----------------------
File: FINALF~1.SMC
Name: FINAL FANTASY 6 Company: Square
Header: None Bank: HiROM
Interleaved: No SRAM: 64 Kb
Type: Normal + Batt ROM: 24 Mb
Country: Japan Video: NTSC
ROM Speed: 120ns (FastROM) Revision: 1.0
Checksum: Good 0xA172 CRC32: 45EF5AC8
--------------------------Database--------------------------
Name: Final Fantasy VI
Country: Japan Revision: 1.0
Port 1: Gamepad Port 2: Gamepad
Genre 1: RPG Genre 2: Turn Based

Aerdan wrote: If you can't demonstrate clearly that it is, in fact, a bug with ZSNES, and not just with your brain/memory, please go away.

Well, I'm quite sure that it's a bug with ZSNES. That's why I created the topic, mainly for the developers, to let them know what they could test if they want to fix something. I also noticed, they still intend to improve the sound, so I tried to help.
Of course I can't prove that it is a bug, but I don't have to. If you want a demonstration, I included a link to a savestate. You can listen to it if you're interested.

If you refer to the other thing I mentioned ... well, I already said it's not that important, but maybe it's still helpful for the developers to improve the sound quality. That's why I included it ... but I think I was wrong there. I just listened to SNEeSe once more, this time focusing on that falling sound, and it sounded just like in zsnes. So that was "a bug with my brain/memory", as you called it, but the burning sound is really wrong in zsnes.

Aerdan wrote: Likewise, if you can't get a recording of how the SNES plays it, please go away.

I compared it with several emulators which have good sound (SNEeSe for example, which seems to be best in that area), I think that's sufficient.

You know, you don't have to read/reply topics you don't like. You can go away, too.

Starman Ghost wrote: Show some respect Aerdan. If it wasn't for him we wouldn't have sdd-1(s-dd1, whatever) emulation.

Thanks, finally some kind words. I really didn't expect to be greeted with flames here

but I don't really mind. It's just not very friendly.

Joe Camacho wrote: Have you tried using BSNES? I have heard it has a better sound emulation core/thingy.

No, I haven't tried that yet. Currently I sit at a P2-300, which means it would be pointless to try that emulator (it needs approx. 10x the processor power). However, I have also access to a newer computer (a P4), at another place, where I'll be next week. I can test it there, however I feel that's quite moot because:

Deathlike2 wrote: I recall the fire being a bit off in ZSNES...

pagefault has suggested to use SNEESE as the best sound reference (it does have a better sound core).

Thanks for confirming my suspicions

Yes, I know he suggested SNEeSe ... I've read some posts here before posting. That's why I tried it, too.

Starman Ghost · Post by **Starman Ghost** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:01 am

Andreas_N wrote:
Starman Ghost wrote: Show some respect Aerdan. If it wasn't for him we wouldn't have sdd-1(s-dd1, whatever) emulation.
Thanks, finally some kind words. I really didn't expect to be greeted with flames here but I don't really mind. It's just not very friendly.

Don't worry about it. It's pretty safe to ignore all posts by Aerdan. He has one of the biggest sticks up his ass.

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:21 am

SNEESE and BSNES deliver the correct sound... ZSNES is off (I still don't know how to describe how it's off).. like the pitch or something is somehow off... and although this comes from memory.. I do own the damn game (FF3) and played it a lot back in the day...

After looking through the BSNES code for SDD-1.. I finally understood the comments... Thanks for figuring out that chip.. the only game that comes to mind is Street Fighter Alpha 2 and that brought back a few memories.

Andreas_N · Post by **Andreas_N** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:27 am

Starman Ghost wrote:Show some respect Aerdan. If it wasn't for him we wouldn't have sdd-1(s-dd1, whatever) emulation.

Oh, I just realized ... you're mistaking me for Andreas Naive. Well, sorry for that, it wasn't my intention to let the people here believe I was him, it's just the nick I used in IRC for all that time, and I didn't realize there was actually someone with the same name and initials who worked on SNES emulation stuff. After reading the thread again I realized you actually thought it was me who contributed to S-DD1 emulation, so I looked it up and found out that it was him who did the S-DD1 research, well ... sorry again. I really should have added a sig to my posts with at least my full name.

Starman Ghost · Post by **Starman Ghost** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:29 am

What are thhe odds of that. Regardless, He does have a big stick up his ass and needs to cool it.

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:32 am

Oh, I just realized ... you're mistaking me for Andreas Naive. Well, sorry for that, it wasn't my intention to let the people here believe I was him, it's just the nick I used in IRC for all that time, and I didn't realize there was actually someone with the same name and initials who worked on SNES emulation stuff. After reading the thread again I realized you actually thought it was me who contributed to S-DD1 emulation, so I looked it up and found out that it was him who did the S-DD1 research, well ... sorry again. I really should have added a sig to my posts with at least my full name.

Oh man..

adventure_of_link · Post by **adventure_of_link** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:34 am

Starman Ghost wrote:What are thhe odds of that. Regardless, He does have a big stick up his ass and needs to cool it.

More like he needs to pull it out of his ass, period.

kieran_ · Post by **kieran_** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:30 am

adventure_of_link wrote:
Starman Ghost wrote:What are thhe odds of that. Regardless, He does have a big stick up his ass and needs to cool it.
More like he needs to pull it out of his ass, period.

HA!

Tallgeese · Post by **Tallgeese** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:22 pm

Yeah, but that would require divorce court. And you know how expensive that could be.

adventure_of_link · Post by **adventure_of_link** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:14 pm

Yeah, even I couldn't afford that...

Andreas_N · Post by **Andreas_N** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:36 pm

Starman Ghost wrote:What are thhe odds of that.

I hope you don't think I did this intentionally, although it may seem so. If you don't believe me, I understand that, but please forgive me.

Starman Ghost wrote:Regardless, He does have a big stick up his ass and needs to cool it.

Well, he seems to be not very popular here, that's for sure ... but enough of that.

To get back on topic, is that really one of those "sound rape" bugs I've read about in other topics, or something different? I used the term because it seemed fitting, but maybe I'm wrong there.

Joe Camacho · Post by **Joe Camacho** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:58 pm

herzog wrote:
adventure_of_link wrote:
Starman Ghost wrote:What are thhe odds of that. Regardless, He does have a big stick up his ass and needs to cool it.
More like he needs to pull it out of his ass, period.
HA!

I would do it for free, you just need to travel to Mx.

Sith · Post by **Sith** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:44 pm

Post by **pagefault** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 12:21 am

Deathlike2 wrote:SNEESE and BSNES deliver the correct sound... ZSNES is off (I still don't know how to describe how it's off).. like the pitch or something is somehow off... and although this comes from memory.. I do own the damn game (FF3) and played it a lot back in the day...

After looking through the BSNES code for SDD-1.. I finally understood the comments... Thanks for figuring out that chip.. the only game that comes to mind is Street Fighter Alpha 2 and that brought back a few memories.

What evidence do you have to base your opinion on this.

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 12:26 am

pagefault wrote:
Deathlike2 wrote:SNEESE and BSNES deliver the correct sound... ZSNES is off (I still don't know how to describe how it's off).. like the pitch or something is somehow off... and although this comes from memory.. I do own the damn game (FF3) and played it a lot back in the day...

After looking through the BSNES code for SDD-1.. I finally understood the comments... Thanks for figuring out that chip.. the only game that comes to mind is Street Fighter Alpha 2 and that brought back a few memories.
What evidence do you have to base your opinion on this.

I own the game and played it a lot. I'll see what I can do about recording the sound off the real thing.. but it will be in mono (lost those stereo cables long ago). Obviously what I have to say has "no evidence" so I'll get the evidence myself if the console due to dust/rust/age doesn't slows this fact finder mission.

byuu · Post by **byuu** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 1:12 am

What evidence do you have to base your opinion on this.

You ask as if anyone ever has any ... :/
Need to get a new sticky topic for sound problems and post some schematics to rip digital sound from the SNES and require comparison files to be posted to acknowledge bugs.

Speaking of which, anyone have info on how to capture output from the DSP before it reaches the DAC? It would be extremely beneficial if us devs could get a couple systems with this ability. I've yet to even find a pinout of the DSP.

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 1:41 am

byuu wrote:
What evidence do you have to base your opinion on this.
You ask as if anyone ever has any ... :/
Need to get a new sticky topic for sound problems and post some schematics to rip digital sound from the SNES and require comparison files to be posted to acknowledge bugs.

Personally.. I've asked this question before, but didn't get quite the asnwer I was looking for. I was hoping to use a real SNES (and original game), TV, and use a microphone that is connected to a computer using Sound Recorder (if there's a better solution that doesn't require destroying an SNES, I'll see what I can do)

byuu · Post by **byuu** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:04 am

http://alpha-ii.com/Info/snes-spdif.html

There we go. Heh, I might just try this. I can spare a $3 SNES or two :D

Reznor007 · Post by **Reznor007** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:05 am

byuu wrote:
What evidence do you have to base your opinion on this.
You ask as if anyone ever has any ... :/
Need to get a new sticky topic for sound problems and post some schematics to rip digital sound from the SNES and require comparison files to be posted to acknowledge bugs.

Speaking of which, anyone have info on how to capture output from the DSP before it reaches the DAC? It would be extremely beneficial if us devs could get a couple systems with this ability. I've yet to even find a pinout of the DSP.

Well, Antiresonance has some info on his site. Here's a link to his page of how to get SPDIF from a SNES(directly off the DSP).