Should I bother with Saturn emulation?

Panzer88 · Post by **Panzer88** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 6:26 pm

also see megaman VIII, megaman X4, Tomb Raider, Saturn Bomberman, Virtua Fighter II, and many more.

also, while tvs have scanlines, they don't look like the scanline filters that most emulators use. For a more accurate representation you might want to check out a NTSC filter, such as blarggs.

there are many other filtering options, if I can I usually go for bilinear filtering or interpolated.

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:19 am

Panzer88 wrote:also, while tvs have scanlines, they don't look like the scanline filters that most emulators use. For a more accurate representation you might want to check out a NTSC filter, such as blarggs.

Depends on the TV. And source, since not all games/systems output the low-res progressive scan that generates the visible scanlines.

On low-res progressive stuff, my 32" set in the living room is almost EXACTLY like 100% scanlines. Same for the 32" monitor in my bedroom.

Both displays are, of course, far higher quality than what was expected by developers until about the last hardware generation.
Hell, most PS1 games are so dependent on dithering and checkerboard transparency that s-video makes them look far worse.

there are many other filtering options, if I can I usually go for bilinear filtering or interpolated.

Agreed. I don't use them much anymore. Actually, I'm more of a raw pixel person now, but that's another story. When I DO use a filter, it's usually a basic interpolation effect.

But scanlines are a cheap way to break up the pixel boundaries, and they're also a cheap way to simulate TV output. They aren't the most effective at either, but they're "good enough" for a lot of things.
And if you use a good display and a clean source for your real systems, scanlines may be a more accurate simulation of your setup than anything else is.

clessoulis · Post by **clessoulis** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 5:07 am

If by far worst with Svideo you mean sharp clear and highly pixelated then yes. Alot of people tend to like shitty tube SDTV because it smooths the picture making it look "better" I think seeing the graphics in high clearity pixelation is best. Or a proper smoothing effect that doesnt look like a motion blur is better.

casualsax3 · Post by **casualsax3** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 5:58 am

Just tried this out tonight with Panzer Dragoon Saga - and WOW Saturn emulation has come lightyears since the last time I looked into it. Has Dreamcast emulation gone anywhere?

snkcube · Post by **snkcube** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 6:07 am

casualsax3 wrote:Has Dreamcast emulation gone anywhere?

From what I last heard, Chankast hasn't been updated in years.

Post by **Agozer** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 11:16 am

snkcube wrote:
casualsax3 wrote:Has Dreamcast emulation gone anywhere?
From what I last heard, Chankast hasn't been updated in years.

Yeah, last update was in June, 2004.

Well, Demul tries to fill the void at least.

Panzer88 · Post by **Panzer88** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 5:53 pm

it is still a good emu, chancast that is, not that you guys weren't saying that, but still.

kick · Post by **kick** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:22 am

For those without a monster PC and SSE3 support,there's always MAME/MESS which emulates the Saturn pretty good (except for the SCSP sound chip) and the only one that works great with older CPUs,such as the AthlonXP3200+ (SSE1).

Post by **Agozer** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:35 am

SSF doesn't require SSE3, just SSE2.

powerspike · Post by **powerspike** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:51 pm

Get SSF R5 NOW! It supports the mission stick controller which was meant for flying games. Though a nice side effect of it is it works as an analogue controller in nights! Now if only it didn't run at like 15FPS on my machine...

Edit:
Better get your quad core processors. Translation from borisz at ngemu.

A new version was put up, although not many changes have been made since I don't have the time.
SSF Ver0.08 alpha R5
Subcode Q processing of the CD Block was updated.
The battle progress explanation screen in Gungriffon and the demo screen of Gungriffon 2 have stopped skipping.
Window processing of the VDP2 was updated.
Memory Access Wait processing was updated.

Mission Stick, Multi-controller and Mahjong Panel inputs have been hooked up.
Key arrangement (for the Mahjong Panel):
A-N = A-N keys
Kan = Ctrl key
Pon = Alt key
Chi = Space key
Riichi/Reach = Shift key
Ron = Z key

An option for the (SCU) DSP to be processed in an exclusive thread has been added.
However, since synchronization with the SH2 will become difficult, software with high (cpu) load may fail to work.

CPU usage for dual and multi-core enviroments has been set up.
Exclusive threads processed by the CPUS:
for 2 cpus (Dual Core):
CPU0 - Main Thread
CPU1 - VDP2 Draw Thread

for 4 cpus (Quad Core)
CPU0 - Main Thread
CPU1 - VDP2 Draw Thread
CPU2 - VDP1 Draw Thread
CPU3 - DSP Thread

Save State data version was updated.
Savestates from previous versions cannot be used. Since it's becoming difficult to maintain compatibility...
From now on, if save state data is changed, (backwards) compatibility shall not be taken into consideration.

Although analog input has been hooked up, it has not been checked much.
Since I only have a XBOX360 controller..

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:47 am

clessoulis wrote:If by far worst with Svideo you mean sharp clear and highly pixelated then yes. Alot of people tend to like shitty tube SDTV because it smooths the picture making it look "better" I think seeing the graphics in high clearity pixelation is best. Or a proper smoothing effect that doesnt look like a motion blur is better.

Apparently you either don't play PS1 games, or are completely blind.

The vast majority of PS1 games look like complete crap in s-video. Even really nice stuff like Valkyrie Profile turns out to be seriously dependent on dithering and checkerboard transparency. Symphony of the Night is the ONLY game I've tried that benefits from s-video, and even THAT has dithering issues in places.
It's blatantly obvious that the game designers were assuming there WOULD be a blur.

The PS1 is a uniquely ugly system. I'm constantly amused that the SNES sitting next to it benefits from s-video.

And what TV tube quality has to do with composive VS s-video is beyond me. Or what you're seeing that looks like motion blur.

Nightcrawler · Post by **Nightcrawler** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:12 pm

I think your opinion is of the minority. I upgraded to an s-video connection on my PS1 and it improved the visual quality of every single game I own in my opinion.

blackmyst · Post by **blackmyst** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:44 pm

I've got an RGB cable for my PS1 (which is just about the same sort of effect I guess) and while the sharpness does look very nice, Gil is right about the dithering and stuff. Especially some 2D graphics that used to look perfectly smooth are now a pixel fest. And there's something weird going on with the color red that apparently allowed for it to be compressed much more strongly without loss of quality on regular video outputs, but that compression becomes very visible on RGB.

It's a tradeoff really. You gain sharpness and vivid colors, but in some cases, some graphics that were specifically tailored to old TV's and video output might look wrong, and this is a fact. That's why I keep both my RGB cable and my old one for different games. : )