Standard Windows GUI In The Future?

xamenus · Post by **xamenus** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:40 pm

which part of ZSnes feature is useles??

One feature that comes to mind is the Custom GUI Fonts feature, which is quite possibly *the* most useless feature in ZSNES. It even forces a 'zfont.txt' into the root directory, which is meaningless for me and does nothing but take up space.

But then again, I'm not an artist, so I have no desire to change the GUI font.

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:43 pm

xamenus wrote:
which part of ZSnes feature is useles??
One feature that comes to mind is the Custom GUI Fonts feature, which is quite possibly *the* most useless feature in ZSNES. It even forces a 'zfont.txt' into the root directory, which is meaningless for me and does nothing but take up space.

But then again, I'm not an artist, so I have no desire to change the GUI font.

It wasn't my idea to request auto-regeneration of the file. In any case, it would probably be one of the issues dealt with in a GUI rewrite.

xamenus · Post by **xamenus** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:46 pm

Deathlike2 wrote:It wasn't my idea to request auto-regeneration of the file.

Auto-regeneration is probably the most practical way to deal with the feature, currently. Still, the need the for the feature at all is what I'm questioning.

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:57 pm

xamenus wrote:
Deathlike2 wrote:It wasn't my idea to request auto-regeneration of the file.
Auto-regeneration is probably the most practical way to deal with the feature, currently. Still, the need the for the feature at all is what I'm questioning.

It isn't ever needed. It is like an extra feature like so many others. It has more to do with ease of implementation than anything else, which made this not hard to do. If you consider stuff like say, expanding the font size, it requires a ton more work, even though it is certainly more worthwhile.

Clements · Post by **Clements** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:58 pm

I use it.

byuu · Post by **byuu** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 6:16 pm

Rashidi wrote:feature there aren't avail in real snes hardware,
accuracy is done in core-programming not interface-programming

While accuracy is never affected by changes or additions to the user interface, many features do require changes to the core.

Take for example, frameskipping. You have to add code into the core to bypass RTO calculation and PPU output. Or BG layer toggling, your PPU needs to check values controlled via the UI to determine if it should process certain layers or not. Debugging extensions have the same problem. You want to trace opcodes? You have to insert tracing code right before or after opcodes execute. Want breakpoints? You have to hook every read/write request to go through your UI's debugger. Even video filters often have to hook into the emulator core if you want to handle hires mode filtering properly.

Too many of these features will convolute your core emulation code significantly. These features are implemented to the preference and comfort of the emulator authors.

And then there are the freebie features that can be implemented transparently to the core: key combination macros, input playback (eg for movie playback), screenshots, additional fullscreen / windowed mode controls, etc. I don't think anyone has a problem with these features. Or at least, they shouldn't. Not everyone working on ZSNES knows how to work on the core, for a variety of reasons. So either you get the features or you don't. There's no time wasted that could be "better spent" elsewhere.

creaothceann · Post by **creaothceann** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 6:56 pm

Rashidi wrote:
screenshot ? i use it to create a complete in game map

Advance frame-by-frame ? i use it most, in conjunction with spc & screen capture

Keyboard/device input ? what are game will be without interaction? i also use "layer" disabling/enabling with screen capture, this way i spent less time editing the captured screen, also disabling certain layer / windowing actually helps in certain game that obsure the view
certainly, i can't say they are useless.

*shameless self-plug & thread derailment* Tried vSNES?

creaothceann · Post by **creaothceann** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:09 pm

CyberBotX wrote:Just because people bitch about something on the forums doesn't mean the developers need to give in to the bitching.

People: "You never know, one of them might give in!"

(link)

Samurai Goroh · Post by **Samurai Goroh** » Mon May 28, 2007 8:02 pm

I think the current GUI is perfectly fine. It's certainly intuitive enough that Windows users can navigate it without much trouble.

The portability is well worth any perceived aesthetic cost. I've used ZSNES in DOS, Linux, and every version of Windows since 95, and it's so cool that it looks and feels the same everywhere. It gives it a timeless quality that transcends the current OS of the moment, which seems appropriate for an application which is essentially helping preserve works of art beyond the lifetime of any current OS.

An aside - I have to say I am impressed by ZSNES performance, though I realize the extensive use of x86 assembly limits the portability I'm championing above. My brother recently dug an old P233 MMX machine running Windows 95 out of his closet. It's pretty much useless for everything nowadays; to even do NES or Genesis gaming at decent speed on it required going back to older, discontinued emulators like Nesticle and Genecyst.

But DOS ZSNES 1.51 looks and sounds great on it, even when running under Windows. Throw in an old gameport Sidewinder, and suddenly that old hardware is as good as new. Maybe not, but at least useful for keeping his kids off his main PC.

Post by **pagefault** » Wed May 30, 2007 3:39 pm

Our debugger is written in Qt. If it works well we may use it for the main GUI with many skinning changes.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:37 am

I don't have any nitpicks with the current GUI, but I admit that something to take better advantage of Windows' native API would be more convenient. Multi-tasking isn't too difficult, as the emulator of course has a minimize / maximize option, but having to go back and forth to the menu screen is somewhat tedious at times.

It sounds more like something we can only hope for in an unofficial build, though. The current GUI has always been this way, and since it's known to be effective, I doubt the developer wants to change it anytime soon. That, and we don't want to make the emulator's cross-compatibility harder to work with in the process.

It's sort of like complaining about Firefox being too slow -- while Firefox has an effective GUI, it's still a bloated, cross-platform XUL, and it's not going to run as smoothly as if it relied on Windows' native API instead.

PHoNyMiKe · Post by **PHoNyMiKe** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:00 am

if it ain't broke, don't fix it. if no 'zsnes devs' want to fix bigger emulation bugs at hand, then I'd say keep your hand out of the cookie jar (and the source code!)

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:06 am

By the way, I want to note that, prior to my previous post, I was unaware of SNES9x.

I just now played around with 9x v1.51, and it seems like a pretty good alternative to the official build. The GUI is much more native and easier to multi-task with. I'm sure someone has already mentioned it as an alternative, though.

franpa · Post by **franpa** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:36 am

SNES 9x is NOT a version of ZSNES, it is completely different.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:52 am

franpa wrote:SNES 9x is NOT a version of ZSNES, it is completely different.

Yes, I'm aware:

I just now played around with 9x v1.51, and it seems like a pretty good alternative to the official build.

EDIT: Oh, nevermind. I see what you mean now. For some reason, I was thinking SNES9x was based on the zSNES source code. Apparently not. My mistake.

Kajuru · Post by **Kajuru** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:43 pm

Hehe Zsnes9x. Sounds lika a pre-XP application.

franpa · Post by **franpa** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:53 pm

yes, you talked about it as a build based on zsnes ^^ glad you found what i meant.

realnabarl · Post by **realnabarl** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:26 pm

I like the classic view of ZSNES's GUI.But people around me always complain about it.

Only English can displayed in it(Japanese also supported after some version?),but Chinese can't,so the ROMs file in Chinese can't display in ZSNES.English is currency for ROMs but you know one's native language is most comfortable,I think many people prefer name their ROMs into their native language.

Maybe the huge amount characters of Chinese is a problem,but if ZSNES has a standard Windows GUI,the problem will be solved,right?

Post by **grinvader** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:38 pm

realnabarl wrote:(Japanese also supported after some version?)

Only the half-width katakana charset, which isn't much.

Maybe the huge amount characters of Chinese is a problem,but if ZSNES has a standard Windows GUI,the problem will be solved,right?

Right - as long as windows itself can deal with the fonts and encoding, of course (which shouldn't be an issue in the recent versions).