Over-accuracy debate

[Exophase]

Emulating the SPC does increase CPU load, which in turn does affect rendering speed.

Okay, please try to understand what I'm saying.

SNES97 and NLKE with audio disabled rendered much more slowly than NLKSNES did.

Emulating the SPC does NOT affect the rendering speed, it increases the overall amount of CPU time you need per frame. Disabling it is as good as not emulating it.

[Tallgeese]

Unless MESS is actually seeing development work.

http://moogle-tech.com/blog/

sooner or later those improvements will be included in the MESS source.

Spiffy!

Holy shit one of those's posts is fucking arrogant though.

[Exophase]

Holy shit one of those's posts is fucking arrogant though.

The don't IM me at work one?

[etabeta]

Holy shit one of those's posts is fucking arrogant though.

If you get him when he's in a bad mood, is bloody arrogant (it was much worse years ago at mame.net boards)

If you get him in a good period, he's helpful and answers in a wonderful way when you need help in the development

as anyone else, he is not perfect and boards/blogs/internet aren't well suited to social interactions (too many things are not visible)

EDIT: let me add my thoughts about the accuracy thing, since this is the main topic. as a first step in the emulation of a new system, especially when just a few docs are available, inaccurate HLE is great. anyway, it shall be used mainly as a workaround to allow other components to be emulated. at a second stage, one shall always try to improve accuracy (to get rid of per-game hacks and improve general compatibility both with past/current and future software). this additional accuracy can be obtained both with a well written HLE and with a LLE. The former has the advantage of giving a boost to the emulation speed (in most of the cases). The latter is important, especially if you intend to disclose your source to the public, to better document the actual behavior of an hardware. as already stated ad nauseam, they fit different needs and a different public and it's impossible to find one objectively superior to the other. in the end, it's just a matter of tastes and targets, but it keeps leading to endless discussions (like this threads proves [1])

[sarcasm]is it because emu drama keeps emulation alive?[/sarcasm]


[1] to be fair, quite often it is also due to the clash of big egos: quite a lot of devs (both among accuracy zealots and the opposite faction) start to shout a bit, when their approach is criticized by the supporters of the other approach... and it sounds a lot like console wars and discussions about 'my car is better than yours' and 'my favorite beer is far superior to yours' etc.

[Unforgiven]

Holy shit one of those's posts is fucking arrogant though.

If you get him when he's in a bad mood, is bloody arrogant (it was much worse years ago at mame.net boards)

What's with people in the emulation scene (rom hackers, translators etc) and arrogance?

It's like you can't be a rom hacker without having "Arrogant douchebag prick" listed in your CV.

This is especially consistent among rom-hacker/translators who CAN understand Japanese (but are not Japanese themselves).

It's like when someone asks anything about translations or the Japanese language, the Japanese-fluent rom hacker will step into the thread and say something along the lines of "I CAN READ JAPANESE SO RESPECT MY OMNIPOTENCY. YOUR QUESTION IS STUPID, LITTLE FOOL, BUT I WILL ANSWER THE QUESTION ANYWAY. I AM SUPERIOR, YOU LITTLE NON-JAPANESE-UNDERSTANDING PEASANT, BOW AND KISS MY SHOES"

I don't have any thread examples yet, but I'm sure some of you can remember encountering such a situation.

[I.S.T.]

People in everything that involves a fair amount of skill tend to be arrogant. hacking games via the wonders of ASM isn't easy, and many of those who manage to pull it off get a sense of superiority.

Far from all, however. Look at, say, Nightcrawler. he's a very humble guy.

[AamirM]

Emulating the SPC does increase CPU load, which in turn does affect rendering speed.

Okay, please try to understand what I'm saying.

SNES97 and NLKE with audio disabled rendered much more slowly than NLKSNES did.

Emulating the SPC does NOT affect the rendering speed, it increases the overall amount of CPU time you need per frame. Disabling it is as good as not emulating it.

Hi,

I think it was not hard than it is now to create a fast emulator in the DOS days as the software had direct access to the hardware. But it was easier to create buggy emus though.

stay safe,

AamirM

[Unforgiven]

Far from all, however. Look at, say, Nightcrawler. he's a very humble guy.

I was going to disagree with you until I read more closely: You wrote nightcrawler, NOT NightWolve.

Carry on.

[mudlord]

I'll agree, but I'd add that HLE vs LLE is not black and white. Every emulator is different to a degree.

More like there is shades of grey. Which is what annoys me when people see them as polar opposites, and always sees HLE as the bad guy, when it some cases its needed if nothing else is feasible.

Yay
Sounds good. The funny part is that we mostly agree on everything, we're just very sensitive about the words used.

I suppose so . Though arguing due to the use of language..is kinda lame, but bleh. Its in the past.

You're right, I did this as well. My mistake. It's still somewhat high-level in that you replace actual math with high-level video card API functions, but it's certainly not the same thing as

Yup, like to allow for high speed framebuffer effects, N64 HLE video plugins often use OpenGL framebuffer objects or Direct3D render targets for render to texture, since the simple way to do it is extremely slow (reading directly from memory).

[byuu]

It's like you can't be a rom hacker without having "Arrogant douchebag prick" listed in your CV.

This is especially consistent among rom-hacker/translators who CAN understand Japanese (but are not Japanese themselves).

Yep, see ... as an emulator author, people are extremely nice. But as a ROM hacker, well let's just say death threats are common. Same amount of effort to give people things for free, yet totally different treatment.

Anyway, counterpoints:

http://mother3.fobby.net/
http://sa-two.yuudachi.net/

Tomato and satsu both ROM hack and translate, and are the nicest two people I have ever met.

The people in the ROM hacking community who speak Japanese are always exceptionally courteous and helpful. The ones who think they speak Japanese and will argue for weeks about why Frog should be named Kaeru or that changing Dragon God to Sacred Dragon is blasphemy ... those guys are assholes.

[Tallgeese]

Far from all, however. Look at, say, Nightcrawler. he's a very humble guy.

Uhhhh... no offense, but not really. He can get very uppity when he wants to.