REAL ID **Warning** political thread potentially retarded.

[SquareHead]

OK, I will admit, I don't know much. What the hell is all the fuss about? (Let us overlook the budgetary and implementation issues.) Why are privacy groups all over this? I like the idea that there will be a unified database for all ID's. I especially like the idea of the thumbprint being on the ID as well.

And can someone explain to me what constitutes 'privacy' when it comes to issues like this? I want to know why people dislike the idea of security cameras in public places linked to face recognition software. Or why they don't like the idea of the real id.

[Joe Camacho]

I'm actually dissapointed in the US in this regard.

But I'm thinking that the privacy issues are more concerned with the idea of having your social security number in the card, making it easier for someone to "steal your identity".

Here in Mx we have a "CURP" (Clave Única de Registro de Población/Unique Code of Population Registry) that helps in the sense that you stop having a different code for all your documents.

As an ID card, we have an Elector Credential, which doesn't have the CURP, it has another code, that makes you easy to track down in the elector lists. But not much else. It also has your name, address, signature and picture, so during some "paper procedures" they ask you for a copy of your Elector Card so you can credit that you are who you say you are.You also need to present your ID card when you are cashing checks and the like.

Edit.- Oh, I also forgot, getting one if free and you can get it once or 30 days before you become 18.

They aren't that easy to counterfeit, so they are used as the "official" ID Card.

[corronchilejano]

I'm actually dissapointed in the US in this regard.

But I'm thinking that the privacy issues are more concerned with the idea of having your social security number in the card, making it easier for someone to "steal your identity".

Here in Mx we have a "CURP" (Clave Única de Registro de Población/Unique Code of Population Registry) that helps in the sense that you stop having a different code for all your documents.

As an ID card, we have an Elector Credential, which doesn't have the CURP, it has another code, that makes you easy to track down in the elector lists. But not much else. It also has your name, address, signature and picture, so during some "paper procedures" they ask you for a copy of your Elector Card so you can credit that you are who you say you are.You also need to present your ID card when you are cashing checks and the like.

Edit.- Oh, I also forgot, getting one if free and you can get it once or 30 days before you become 18.

They aren't that easy to counterfeit, so they are used as the "official" ID Card.

Pretty much the same one over here, "Cedula de Ciudadanía" or "Citizenship Cell". You use the same number for every transaction or document that other entities might want you to have (such as your... ehr, "social security number", EPS over here, or your university ID), and of course every persons fingerprints are kept by the state.

About the face recognition and all that, I suppose people don't like to think that there's someone watching their every move... which of course, is very far from reality.

How do IDs work in the US anyway?

[SquareHead]

How do IDs work in the US anyway?

In my experience: Poorly. /badjoke

Thats the problem here. It differs from state to state. The worst part of the 50 states having differing ID's is that when we check them at work, the only ones we are familiar with are for our state. How the hell will we know that the ones from out of state are authentic or not?

[MisterJones]

Thats the problem here. It differs from state to state. The worst part of the 50 states having differing ID's is that when we check them at work, the only ones we are familiar with are for our state. How the hell will we know that the ones from out of state are authentic or not?

Whoah, that truly sucks. This, coupled with the fact that civil marriage is not separated from religious marriage along of some other minor things, kind of makes me think our govt. system is not that bad.

[darkbenny]

haha emerica

[Joe Camacho]

Thats the problem here. It differs from state to state. The worst part of the 50 states having differing ID's is that when we check them at work, the only ones we are familiar with are for our state. How the hell will we know that the ones from out of state are authentic or not?

Whoah, that truly sucks. This, coupled with the fact that civil marriage is not separated from religious marriage along of some other minor things, kind of makes me think our govt. system is not that bad.

I'm pretty sure that there is civil marriage and "religious" marriage too in the US. Most of "wedding chapels" in the US are nothing more than the US equivalent of Mexico's "Public Notary", they have the license to be able to marry by civil law.

[MisterJones]

What i am trying to say, is that I have been told by a guy that a religious wedding counts as a civil wedding as well, blurring a distinction between each. While this might have been done for practicity, and at the risk of sounding like paranoid, it looks to me like the church (ie, any religion, not just christianism) has still a degree (albeit short) of power withij the gov't.

feel free to prove me wrong, I know shit about american laws.

[Joe Camacho]

What i am trying to say, is that I have been told by a guy that a religious wedding counts as a civil wedding as well, blurring a distinction between each. While this might have been done for practicity, and at the risk of sounding like paranoid, it looks to me like the church (ie, any religion, not just christianism) has still a degree (albeit short) of power withij the gov't.

feel free to prove me wrong, I know shit about american laws.

The only thing I can think of is that your friend is thinking about "common law" marriage, which is a form of mexican "concubinato", but contrary to concubinato, Common Law marriage is considered a legal marriage. While Concubinato just legally binds people, but not raises their relation to "marriage status".

But some, if not the mayority of the States in the US have abolished the precedent of Common Law marriage. 50 States with different law systems.

This is why studying US law is such a pain in the ass. Times like this makes me glad Mexico isn't a true Federation.

[Gil_Hamilton]

What i am trying to say, is that I have been told by a guy that a religious wedding counts as a civil wedding as well, blurring a distinction between each. While this might have been done for practicity, and at the risk of sounding like paranoid, it looks to me like the church (ie, any religion, not just christianism) has still a degree (albeit short) of power withij the gov't.

feel free to prove me wrong, I know shit about american laws.

Like many things, marriage varies by state. But I'm pretty sure the legal marriage and church marriage are separate.
Not that I would object to letting churches do marriage certificates. It's hardly a matter of power or influence, just one of convenience.


Many states also have common-law marriage. If you present yourself as married, you become married in the eyes of the law. Regardless of religious ceremonies or official documents.
I can see how a religious marriage ceremony could POSSIBLY activate common-law marriage status.

[sweener2001]

as far as i know, you still need to get a marriage certificate from city hall or wherever you get those. you just tell them that you're getting married in a church ceremony, and there you go.

not all religions are recognized by the state, however. most are, but some of those crazy basement ones obviously aren't.

[Joe Camacho]

Guys, I have a question, when you buy stuff that's age restricted, for 17-18 or 21 years olds, what ID do you use?

When I'm in the US I use my laser visa, but what do americans use? Their licenses?

[Firon]

Generally, you use your driver's license.

[Bent]

Exactly, when a minister or priest preforms a marriage in a religious ceremony, he has the legal right to do so and the couple has already gotten a marriage license. That's why you always hear "By the power vested in me by the state of..."

Most people I know only have one form of acceptable picture ID, which is your driver's license. I have never given any other form of ID, except before I was of driving age I may have used my birth certificate a few times.

If this unified ID gets rid of the need for me to have a passport to travel to Canada, I'm all for it. My girlfriend is Canadian and I am kind of disliking the fact that I need to buy a $100 passport to travel about 20 miles.

Which leads to a question I have for Joe Camacho and the other Mexicans, what is required to travel from Mexico to the US?

[adventure_of_link]

Generally, you use your driver's license.

And if you don't have one, your state ID (or your instruction permit/learner's permit/temps/etc) works fine too.

[sweener2001]

we've also all got our social security numbers.

is there a link so i that i can educate myself on this subject?

[funkyass]

If this unified ID gets rid of the need for me to have a passport to travel to Canada, I'm all for it. My girlfriend is Canadian and I am kind of disliking the fact that I need to buy a $100 passport to travel about 20 miles.

IIRC, you don't need a passport to enter canada, you do need one to return to the US, and thats entry via air.

not sure about the land crossings.

[Joe Camacho]

Which leads to a question I have for Joe Camacho and the other Mexicans, what is required to travel from Mexico to the US?

Well, it actually depends on when/where/how you cross.
You need a "Laser Visa". Before it, you had to get a normal visa in your passport (I ignore if other states in Mx, or other countries also use the laser visa, but that's what we have in my State), the laser visa is a special visa to cross to the US, it is useful for 10 years, mine expires around 2008 or 2010. Ah, visas also have a disclaimer in which it says that you are able or unable to labor in the US. (I can't. )

You only need to present your Laser Visa at the toll if you want to cross the border up to 100 miles or kilometers for the border (It sometimes changes, sometimes the checkpoint is sooner, sometimes later, sometimes there isn't a checkpoint at all) If you want to go OVER those 100 miles, things get a bit complicated.

You need a permit, you need to transact your permit in customs at the border. Permits range from days to 6 months (I think), in which you need to tell them where are you going and how much time you will spend there, what you are going to do, etc. To be able to ask for a permit you need to take documentation to prove that you live in Mx and that you don't plan to stay in US to live, for example, students are asked for proof of studies, others are asked for letters from their jobs, everyone is asked for public service receipts for proof of living there, etc.

You can ask for a permit for 6 months, just go for a couple of days, and keep it until it expires, but if you want to get a new one, you need to return the old one. As a way to prevent people keeping them.

In any moment, the US authorities can deny permits, or ask you any kind of documentation, sometimes you only need a Student Card to credit that you study, sometimes they want your "Kardex" (A paper in which you have all the courses you have taken/might be are taking, in school) etc.

If this unified ID gets rid of the need for me to have a passport to travel to Canada, I'm all for it. My girlfriend is Canadian and I am kind of disliking the fact that I need to buy a $100 passport to travel about 20 miles.

IIRC, you don't need a passport to enter canada, you do need one to return to the US, and thats entry via air.

not sure about the land crossings.

They will start asking in the course of the year.

[Bent]

If this unified ID gets rid of the need for me to have a passport to travel to Canada, I'm all for it. My girlfriend is Canadian and I am kind of disliking the fact that I need to buy a $100 passport to travel about 20 miles.

IIRC, you don't need a passport to enter canada, you do need one to return to the US, and thats entry via air.

not sure about the land crossings.

Soon, it will be that way for land crossings as well, although no set date has been announced yet. And yes, I would still like to be able to get home

[whicker]

If this unified ID gets rid of the need for me to have a passport to travel to Canada, I'm all for it. My girlfriend is Canadian and I am kind of disliking the fact that I need to buy a $100 passport to travel about 20 miles.

IIRC, you don't need a passport to enter canada, you do need one to return to the US, and thats entry via air.

not sure about the land crossings.

Soon, it will be that way for land crossings as well, although no set date has been announced yet. And yes, I would still like to be able to get home

hell, if the US wouldn't let me back, I would just stay there.