Post v1.42 ZSNES WIPs

Dais · Post by **Dais** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:50 am

A question for someone who is eternally ignorant...

What exactly is "true rom mirroring", and what does it have to do with translations?

Also, man, I just realized I'm still using the March 29 WIP...no wonder I still have funky desync problems when recording movies.

Sorting through my 140mb (!) of savestates and seeing what exactly I need to keep the old release around for is going to be a bitch.

EDIT: Also, uh, exactly what is the advantage of "USE 30HZ FOR TURBO"? It comes pre-checked and that always worries me if the thing that's prechecked doesn't outright say "MAKES STUFF BETTER"

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 1:25 am

Dais wrote:What exactly is "true rom mirroring", and what does it have to do with translations?

There is one translation, to my knowledge (I think Front Mission) that remaps the memory maps because ZSNES at the time mirrored stuff incorrectly. However this behavior has changed (to something correct of course), and this sorely breaks that game's translation. IIRC, there was discussion with the author(s) of said patch a while back to not use the incorrect behavior.. but alas...

In any case, that would be the problem.

EDIT: Also, uh, exactly what is the advantage of "USE 30HZ FOR TURBO"? It comes pre-checked and that always worries me if the thing that's prechecked doesn't outright say "MAKES STUFF BETTER"

I believe it has something to do with fast forwarding/rewinding/timing. Some games need this enabled to behavor properly.

Dais · Post by **Dais** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:18 am

Alright, thank you for the info!

It's nice to have gotten around to updating to a version that doesn't have horrible desyncs when recording, heh.

Neo Kaiser · Post by **Neo Kaiser** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:18 am

The only bug that I see that the ZSNES team can't fix is the Star Ocean Turbo
Bug.

Post by **Nach** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:44 am

Dais wrote: What exactly is "true rom mirroring", and what does it have to do with translations?

It's what section of the ROM is returned when requested to return ROM data past the end of the pysicall size of the ROM.

Unforunetly most translators especially of the past don't have a clue about proper ROM mirroring. So if a translator only tested his game on some emulators and he had some screwy pointers, it could very well not work anymore.

I recall Front Mission, Dual Orb 2, and some other translations had mirroring issues, I'm sure there are quite a few.

zidanax · Post by **zidanax** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 7:12 am

Nach wrote:
Dais wrote: What exactly is "true rom mirroring", and what does it have to do with translations?
It's what section of the ROM is returned when requested to return ROM data past the end of the pysicall size of the ROM.

Unforunetly most translators especially of the past don't have a clue about proper ROM mirroring. So if a translator only tested his game on some emulators and he had some screwy pointers, it could very well not work anymore.

I recall Front Mission, Dual Orb 2, and some other translations had mirroring issues, I'm sure there are quite a few.

That's interesting, because I remember playing the Front Mission 3 translation through to the end on my SF7 copier. Does that copier change rom mirroring behavior from the real SNES?

EDIT: Then again, I have to remember that I had ucon64 convert the translation to GD3 format as is necessary before loading it onto the copier.

Post by **Nach** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:27 am

Most copiers don't mirror everything properly.
Furthermore the translation you're refering to might not be the one I'm refering to. Aren't there several Front Missions?

zidanax · Post by **zidanax** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 3:54 pm

I'm referring to the normal Front Mission, not Front Mission: Gunhazard. I was using patch version 1.0b.

byuu · Post by **byuu** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:26 pm

Normal Front Mission has two variants:
one is a 26.5mbit ROM, one is a 32mbit ROM.

The problem with the 26.5mbit ROM is that it is infeasible from a hardware standpoint. You would need: a 16mbit ROM, an 8mbit ROM, a 2mbit rom, and a 512kbit rom. The reason is because each ROM has address line pins (think binary), so pretty much all ROMs are going to be powers of two. Is it possible to make a non-power of two ROM? Sure, if you have an address translator inside the ROM itself. But we know of no such ROMs like this on the SNES.
In all known cases, an SNES game requiring 26.5mbits would either use any means necessary and pack that into 24mbits (16+8), or it would spend the extra money and use 32mbits (16+16 or 32).

I'm presently unaware of ANY non-beta ROMs that use more than two ROM chips (eg the ROM size can be represented within two powers of two, 4+4, 8+4, 8+8, 16+4, etc). And the beta ROMs are likely just underdumped because all the extra space at the end of the dump was 0x00s, and the dumpers thought they were clever cutting it off.

Whereas with the new mirroring, it will assume there are as many ROM chips as there are additive powers of two. In Front Mission's case, that is 16+8+2+.5 = 4 ROM chips. This results in some rather wonky mirroring rules that must be giving Front Mission's translation a problem for some reason. I haven't actually looked at a disassembly of the game to find the exact problem, but resizing the game to 32mbits seems to solve the problem.

Post by **pagefault** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:12 pm

This doesn't include many of the emulation fixes we have coming. More to come.

kick · Post by **kick** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:41 pm

I'm experiencing 2 bugs with the latest (04/09) WIP:

- When starting the emulator in windowed mode and switching to another windowed mode,it asks you to press any key,and then press SPACE,but SPACE doesn't respond.

- When assigning an emulation-specific option (like 'toggle Show FPS') to a gamepad button,when you start playing a game and press the button to toggle display FPS,it doesn't toggle once but rapidly like a turbo button.Very annoying.It's a PITA just to toggle show FPS.Using a Logitech Rumblepad 2 gamepad and setting this to button #7.
This happens in NEStopia as well.

kick · Post by **kick** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 7:27 pm

kick wrote:I'm experiencing 2 bugs with the latest (04/09) WIP:

- When starting the emulator in windowed mode and switching to another windowed mode,it asks you to press any key,and then press SPACE,but SPACE doesn't respond.

- When assigning an emulation-specific option (like 'toggle Show FPS') to a gamepad button,when you start playing a game and press the button to toggle display FPS,it doesn't toggle once but rapidly like a turbo button.Very annoying.It's a PITA just to toggle show FPS.Using a Logitech Rumblepad 2 gamepad and setting this to button #7.
This happens in NEStopia as well.

UPDATE:
----------

Compiled and tested the 06 Sep SVN build 3832

Bugs:

1. When setting 'Pause Emulation' to a gamepad button,(I use button 12 on the gamepad for this) when pressing the button once,the game pauses,but pressing it again it doesn't unpause.
When holding the button all the time though,the emulation runs until you release the button,when it pauses again.
Strangely,if this button is assigned to a keyboard key,the Pause/Unpause works correctly.

2. When using a fullscreen mode (ex. 1600x1200 F DS) and switching to Custom F DS ,on resolution change,the SPACE key doesn't respond,so it's impossible to change resolution,other than editing the .cfg file.

3. If 'Show FPS on start' is not activated and you set a key to toggle 'Show FPS',when using a HQxX mode and toggling the FPS indicator,it doesn't work.

zidanax · Post by **zidanax** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 7:46 pm

Just for the record, it looks like ucon64 automatically converts the 26.5mb patched Front Mission ROM to a 32mb ROM when it converts the ROM to GD3 format, which might explain why the game works on my copier.

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 8:31 pm

kick, try deleting the cfg files and see if that changes the situation. On the other hand, I have no issue toggling the FPS counter, as you have suggested.

kick · Post by **kick** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 8:39 pm

Deathlike2 wrote:kick, try deleting the cfg files and see if that changes the situation. On the other hand, I have no issue toggling the FPS counter, as you have suggested.

OK,I'll try with a fresh .cfg with the SVN build and see if it makes any difference.

kick · Post by **kick** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:54 am

The issues still occur with the latest SVN build with a freshly generated .cfg file.

You should reproduce by using a Logitech Rumblepad2 USB gamepad.
This issue is almost the same as the bug I found in NEStopia,Martin fixed it in the latest NEStopia WIP build,now everything is normal.
No matter what buttons I assign these controls to,the issue is still there.(unless I set it to a keyboard key)
The standard controls (DPAD,A,B,X,Y,L,R,Sel,Start) work OK.
Only these 'special' emulation / speed keys are having problems when set to a gamepad.
It's like pressing a turbo button all the time.

On the other hand,the issue with the spacebar key and resolution switching is now gone.
I'll do some additional testing by switching to/from very hi-res custom modes. (1920x1080 up to 2048x1536)

I also had a problem with the ESC key not going back to the GUI before with 3832,so I nedded to Alt-Tab to another application and get back to ZSNES to make it work again,
I'll see if this happens with 3839.

kick · Post by **kick** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:30 pm

Hmm,the spacebar problem is still there just it happens at random.
You can reproduce it if you start ZSNES with freshly-generated .cfgs,then change to another windowed resolution,test a game and close the emulator.
Then open it and switch to a custom DS Fullscreen mode.It won't accept SPACE at the prompt to press it.
It's a bit random,but it happens.

kick · Post by **kick** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 12:56 am

[EDIT]

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:13 am

kick wrote:Also,in the documentation FAQ,about where to get ROMs,you should point users to www.pdroms.com where they can get legal SNES roms to try with the emulator.
There's some really nice stuff there.

No.

kick · Post by **kick** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:19 am

OK

I know,even some of them are 'fishy'.

Nightcrawler · Post by **Nightcrawler** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:34 pm

Nach wrote:
Dais wrote: What exactly is "true rom mirroring", and what does it have to do with translations?
It's what section of the ROM is returned when requested to return ROM data past the end of the pysicall size of the ROM.

Unforunetly most translators especially of the past don't have a clue about proper ROM mirroring. So if a translator only tested his game on some emulators and he had some screwy pointers, it could very well not work anymore.

I recall Front Mission, Dual Orb 2, and some other translations had mirroring issues, I'm sure there are quite a few.

The Dual Orb 2 translation works just fine in this version of ZSNES. The issue was the original Dual Orb 2 ROM was an overdump. However, I never accessed any of those areas.

The current patch works on BOTH the correct ROM dump AND the overdumped version AND the SNES without issue aside from that one bug I never bothered to fix on the SNES.

Post by **Nach** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:56 am

Nightcrawler wrote: The issue was the original Dual Orb 2 ROM was an overdump. However, I never accessed any of those areas.

Your original patch did not worked with a not overdumped ROM since then it mirrored incorrectly.

deadscreem · Post by **deadscreem** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:05 pm

The Sufami Turbo base cart config doesn't work anymore in the latest wip.
maybe the other basecart configs too?

Post by **Nach** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:37 pm

deadscreem wrote:The Sufami Turbo base cart config doesn't work anymore in the latest wip.
maybe the other basecart configs too?

Thanks for the report. I looked into it and noticed it only loads from default settings not the path you typed in, that's been fixed now.

Palin · Post by **Palin** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:57 am

Mmm, I love visiting this thread every several weeks and reading all the new changes. My thanks go out to all the developers who have way more work ethic than I could ever muster.

I was wondering, though, I wanted to play Chrono Trigger again and I'm going to play it on ZSNES (since my SNES is currently missing its cables.) I know that there are some graphical glitches (Black Omen bug) and some sound problems (square sound rape bug) but what I wanted to know was if I use the latest WIP or SVN build with Zget, are there any documented bugs that will outright crash the game or make it unplayable?