So, I just got a job today

Cyrus · Post by **Cyrus** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:37 am

As stated repeatedly, it's all scare tactics. They've sent several people I know letters and/or emails threatening to sue and we're in Canada, meaning they have no real authority and yet they still try bullshit such as "admit guilt and pay only $50!!". An IP/time of download/bullshit proves precisely dick, it would never stand up in court if they were to actually sue.

lockharte · Post by **lockharte** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:08 am

i don't what it's like in Canada, but in the States, 95% of the time, the Judge sides with the RIAA, and the percentage is higher if the defendant is a college student. Corporate America and the judicial system hate college students.

Joe Camacho · Post by **Joe Camacho** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:30 am

lockharte wrote:i don't what it's like in Canada, but in the States, 95% of the time, the Judge sides with the RIAA, and the percentage is higher if the defendant is a college student. Corporate America and the judicial system hate college students.

I might get burn by all of you, but I can't blame them. Even if the economic impact exist, it's debatable that the impact affects in a negative way.. Still, there is no right the college student, the uploader or the downloader can really defend in this kind of issues.

If you copy with or without the motivation of profit, without the authorization of the creator/copyright holder, just make sure you don't get caught.

It's even worse now, that new Terms of Service or EULAs are stating that you don't even own the disc, rather that you have the right to *use* the media, making the sole non-profit copy of media a copyright infringment.

Here in Mx, where Piracy is still been prosecuted as the physical media sold for profit, is facing a new adversary. It's name is the "Cámara de la propiedad industrial" (The Chamber of Industrial Property), a couple of weeks/months ago they started seizing computers from Internet Cafés. We can now say we have an RIAA.

But anyway, have the told you *what* you were supposed to download, I mean, how do they expect you to settle if they don't tell you what "damage" you caused them?

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 7:17 am

Joe Camacho wrote:It's even worse now, that new Terms of Service or EULAs are stating that you don't even own the disc, rather that you have the right to *use* the media, making the sole non-profit copy of media a copyright infringment.

Meh. I wouldn't worry too much about quirky license agreements. Sony tries to state that "misuse" (which is a very broad term) of their products should simply result in termination of its services, but it's not necessarily an infringement of existing copyright laws, and they can't really make new ones up on the spot. For example, if you put ANY software on your PSP (fucking wordfilter in all lower-case

) other than official software developed or licensed by Sony, then you're "misusing" the product, and have "agreed" to terminate further use of it. Could they actually drag you to court for using a custom firmware version, though? I seriously doubt it. Custom firmware and PSX piracy has been an issue with PSP for quite a while. I don't think Sony has any legal grounds to prosecute its developers or userbase.

Joe Camacho · Post by **Joe Camacho** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 8:14 am

Grendel wrote:
Joe Camacho wrote:It's even worse now, that new Terms of Service or EULAs are stating that you don't even own the disc, rather that you have the right to *use* the media, making the sole non-profit copy of media a copyright infringment.
Meh. I wouldn't worry too much about quirky license agreements. Sony tries to state that "misuse" (which is a very broad term) of their products should simply result in termination of its services, but it's not necessarily an infringement of existing copyright laws, and they can't really make new ones up on the spot. For example, if you put ANY software on your psp (fucking wordfilter in all lower-case ) other than official software developed or licensed by Sony, then you're "misusing" the product, and have "agreed" to terminate further use of it. Could they actually drag you to court for using a custom firmware version, though? I seriously doubt it. Custom firmware and PSX piracy has been an issue with psp for quite a while. I don't think Sony has any legal grounds to prosecute its developers or userbase.

No, but they can deny support for your product, in other words, if you brick your PSP, you can't make use of your Sony warranty. Seriously, that companies want to make money, that doesn't make them evil.

It's antieconomical to drag someone for using a custom firmware to court, because the sole lawyer fees would cost a lot more than the PSP, but it's a good way to not having to respond (Pay for repairs, give a new unit to the customer) if the user decides to use the product for other stuff it wasn't intended to be used in the first place. They would save money in that situation.

alexz721 · Post by **alexz721** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:48 am

So what I gather is that it's only a threat to sue and not a letter actually saying you are being sued? I ask because I got a similar letter last year and nothing ever came of it. I did not contact them and stopped downloading stuff for a few months.

lockharte · Post by **lockharte** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:22 am

did you get your letter from the ISP or from a law firm?

please give specifics. thanks you.

alexz721 · Post by **alexz721** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:41 am

No law firm, just the ISP and the company who's copyright in question I was violating.

Joe Camacho · Post by **Joe Camacho** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:12 am

alexz721 wrote:No law firm, just the ISP and the company who's copyright in question I was violating.

Well, in that case, I think it was more of a warning.

alexz721 · Post by **alexz721** » Fri Jun 15, 2007 12:17 am

True. I think it was three strikes and I'm screwed.

lockharte · Post by **lockharte** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 9:32 pm

actually i just quit my job. it turned out to be much less than $15/hour. i was too naive and failed to read the fine print.

PHoNyMiKe · Post by **PHoNyMiKe** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 9:47 pm

haha I knew you would fail!

j/k, sounded like a shitty job anyways. it was only a matter of time before someone snapped and pulled an O.J. at the knife factory.

adventure_of_link · Post by **adventure_of_link** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:09 pm

lockharte wrote:actually i just quit my job. it turned out to be much less than $15/hour. i was too naive and failed to read the fine print.

forgot to take into consideration the taxes that come out of the check?

just kidding, how much were you really making?

lockharte · Post by **lockharte** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:02 pm

i found out that the pay is actually $15 per hour appointment. they say that an appointment lasts typically from 40 min to an hour, but in reality it takes me about an hour and a half, to explain everything. and then there is the time it takes to drive between appointments, which takes another half hour. so that boils down to 7.5/hr. Also expenses, such as gas and phonebill (i have to call the people up first) are not covered by the company.

And also, for the appointments, you don't automatically get paid just to have one. You are supposed to check in with the manager every day at 7:00 AM to tell her how many appts and their times for that day. you also have to call back after every appointment to confirm that you actually had one. Then, you have to fill out a form at the end of each week detailing the name, phone number, address, time, leads (recommendees for future appts), and etc. If you don't do that, you don't get paid.

funny how don't get to know about this until the third day, which coincidently, is also happens to be the day you have to shell out $150 to pay for your own samples. all the promotions, such as free items, offered to customers as incentives for them to buy, comes out of your own pocket as well.

so back to the RIAA thing, i think i'll eventually have to end up paying the three grand they are demanding to prevent a lawsuit. i asked a couple of lawyers and my school's DMCA agent and they all say that in the past, the RIAA has pursued every single college students (with few outstanding exceptions) who did not accept the pre-litigation offer (even if they do not vigilantly pursue other segments of society). 99% percent of the students who go to court end up losing, as the RIAA often put up their best lawyers on these cases, and these students eventually end up settling as well, for an amount much higher than the pre-litigation offer.

Joe Camacho · Post by **Joe Camacho** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:41 pm

lockharte wrote:i found out that the pay is actually $15 per hour appointment. they say that an appointment lasts typically from 40 min to an hour, but in reality it takes me about an hour and a half, to explain everything. and then there is the time it takes to drive between appointments, which takes another half hour. so that boils down to 7.5/hr. Also expenses, such as gas and phonebill (i have to call the people up first) are not covered by the company.

And also, for the appointments, you don't automatically get paid just to have one. You are supposed to check in with the manager every day at 7:00 AM to tell her how many appts and their times for that day. you also have to call back after every appointment to confirm that you actually had one. Then, you have to fill out a form at the end of each week detailing the name, phone number, address, time, leads (recommendees for future appts), and etc. If you don't do that, you don't get paid.

funny how don't get to know about this until the third day, which coincidently, is also happens to be the day you have to shell out $150 to pay for your own samples. all the promotions, such as free items, offered to customers as incentives for them to buy, comes out of your own pocket as well.

Sounds like a typical scam around here. There was a time there were a lot of recruiting ads on the newspaper, in which they promised "1000 pesos a week" (keep in mind that the minimum wage here is around 600). You called them and had to go to a "course" in which they filled your head with bullshit about how they could make you an efficient person, and that if you passed their "exam", you would be placed in one of their offices around town.

The exam was buying a set of "perfumes" for 1000 pesos, and if you managed to sell them all, you would be able to get "in".

No one was able to sell those pieces of shit. I bet they grabbed at least 800 pesos from each SOB they scammed.

adventure_of_link · Post by **adventure_of_link** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 12:46 am

lockharte wrote:i found out that the pay is actually $15 per hour appointment. they say that an appointment lasts typically from 40 min to an hour, but in reality it takes me about an hour and a half, to explain everything. and then there is the time it takes to drive between appointments, which takes another half hour. so that boils down to 7.5/hr. Also expenses, such as gas and phonebill (i have to call the people up first) are not covered by the company.

And the bolded statement is one reason why you were getting $15/hr in the first place, people.

Also, good luck with that whole RIAA thing

PHoNyMiKe · Post by **PHoNyMiKe** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 7:52 am

it sounds like kirby salespeople. they have to sell vacuum cleaners (they are great vacuums, but not $2,000 worth of vacuum.) they go door to door (they are "appointments") and try pushy shit to get you to pay them $2,000 just to get out of the house. I hate door to door salepeople.

lockharte · Post by **lockharte** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 8:29 pm

i asked the interviewer whether or not this job would require telemarketing or going door-to-door. she was like: no, here at vector, we use a low-key marketing approach which, unlike other companies, do not require telemarketing nor going door to door.

so i get the job, and i find out this job not only has telemarketing (you call the people to make appointments) and going door to door (you go their house to do the appointments) to try to get people buy $800 worth of Cutco knives.

make no doubt, those are some pretty darn good knives, but very few people are going to shell out almost a grand for a set of knives.

funkyass · Post by **funkyass** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 9:19 pm

AHH VECTOR!

I wonder why campuses don't beat the snot of them when the put up their shitty, clip-art laden posters and business cards.

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 9:26 pm

funkyass wrote:AHH VECTOR!

I wonder why campuses don't beat the snot of them when the put up their shitty, clip-art laden posters and business cards.

What is Vector exactly...

I remember being getting mail from them before... for some reason, I don't see "growth" from such a company that wanted you to paint people's houses (or be the manager of them).

lockharte · Post by **lockharte** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:45 am

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/10/298792.shtml

Post by **pagefault** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:53 pm

Stay out of Canada, it's bad enogh Michael Moore told you to marry canadians for our health care.

LobStar · Post by **LobStar** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:13 pm

I may be late to join this conversation, but check out:

http://www.eff.org/about/contact/

Contact them, they may be able to help you. But in the mean time, read as much as you can.

http://www.eff.org/IP/P2P/

The university has no right to give them your identity. the RIAA's version of evidence includes using limewire and right clicking a user name and showing their shared files. A client like eMule is slower, but much safer as they can only see the one search result out of you, which makes you much less likely to be a target. Combine that with peer guradian and you have a pretty damn good setup. Finally, last but not least, Aquire any music you have legally. The "I don't know how to use my computer securely" defense is your best bet. They cannot prove you downloaded all of your files in that manner. Legally you are entitled to a backup, but if your CD has a skip in it that wont buff out, downloading could be the only option, or if your CD is unreadable by your CDROM. Good luck, and if you need help, I go to UIC and our Student Lawyer specializes in copyright. I can ask a few questions on your behalf.

As for vector, just googling them comes up with this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_Marketing

Always check up on who your going to apply for, 30 seconds of google can save DAYS of agony. I got TONS of letters from them and some college painting service. Both scams... Good thing I looked it up too, otherwise I might have fallen for them. What I want to know is HOW they get our information... I'm particularly careful about who gets what from me... my university doesn't even have my real mailing address.