Using emulators to create hardware

ZH/Franky · Post by **ZH/Franky** » Sat May 03, 2008 7:36 pm

When a console is released, it is emulated years later. The emulator tries it's best to imitate said hardware inside the console. And so, emulators are based on the original hardware.

Now, imagine that you have an emulator that is 100% accurate (or as byuu says, "pretty damn close") to the original hardware, and the source code of this emulator is examined years and years and years and years later when the original hardware is unavailable....

Could the hardware be reproduced, based on the emulator?
That would be pretty awesome. Someone smart enough could create their own playstation!

Of course, you'd have to realise that the emulator doesn't have to detail things like, for example, the fact that a snes accepts cartridges, so it wouldn't be exactly the same (they wouldn't know how big the carts are, how they are made, etc; in short, if someone went back in time they couldn't run the "newly-made" cart on an original snes) -- but the console made would probably have a harddrive to read ROM's from.

whicker · Post by **whicker** » Sat May 03, 2008 10:07 pm

probably not.

the software wouldn't have any idea of the underlying analog video output signal or the sound amplifiers. Same thing would be that there would be no knowledge contained in the source code how to build the controllers or how exactly the controllers work (how the signals travel down the wires, etc.)

blargg · Post by **blargg** » Sat May 03, 2008 10:27 pm

Output isn't a problem, since even an emulator on a PC can be connected to a TV. Controllers are minor, since the pinouts and protocol are usually well-documented for the SNES and earlier. The emulator usually handles most of the controller hardware already anyway, so the specification is mostly in there.

ZH/Franky · Post by **ZH/Franky** » Sat May 03, 2008 11:35 pm

I suppose that when doing research on how all the hardware works, you could also document other things that wouldn't be included in an emulator (like the exact shape and content of a cartridge (if it's a console that uses carts anyway), shape of controllers, and any of the general underlying physics of the console...) -- take photo's too.

Of course, it wouldn't have to be absolute identical. For example, the PS2 came out, then a few years later, we had the really small one. And I'm sure there are PS2's out there that work exactly like a real ps2, but are not made by sony at all. Afterall, third parties made their own NES's, SNES's, Genesis's/Megadrive's and whatnot.

I suppose that as long as absolute every inch of the console is documented (not just the math and whatnot that the processors would do) and that the emulator/s is 100% accurate, it wouldn't matter if a console became unavailable over time -- we'd be able to make another one because we collected every piece of data there is about the console.

The only question is if the documentation and any emulators + source code, still remains all after all those years. We can make them again as long as we have the docs, but if the docs disappear too (time can do that to things -- time is a real killer you know), the console would be forever lost.

grimvader · Post by **grimvader** » Mon May 05, 2008 3:08 am

There seems to be sufficient documentation to rebuild.... certainly the NES and the SNES.

Rashidi · Post by **Rashidi** » Mon May 05, 2008 3:18 am

... grimvader..., wait something doesn't seems right...

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm17 ... vader2.jpg

oh well, back to topic...

grimvader · Post by **grimvader** » Mon May 05, 2008 3:25 am

DAMM!!!!!!!

I tried my best to get every little detail.

Oh well, i surender..... go ahead and burninate me.

It was fun pretending to be a mod (while it lasted).

EDIT:
Hey, you've got to admit, i did a pretty good job copying the real grinvader's sig.

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Mon May 05, 2008 6:51 am

grimvader wrote: EDIT:
Hey, you've got to admit, i did a pretty good job copying the real grinvader's sig.

No you didn't. It was a shoddy cut/paste that didn't consider that the real one had links.

I.S.T. · Post by **I.S.T.** » Mon May 05, 2008 7:28 am

So, who the hell is the idiot?

declan · Post by **declan** » Mon May 05, 2008 9:07 am

grimvader is my idiot friend.

And yes, he used my photobucket account to get the real grin's avitar

EDIT: I showed him the Zboard when we were at school.

I thought he would be sensible with his account.

Someone (a real mod) get rid of him before he starts spamming the entire board.

ZH/Franky · Post by **ZH/Franky** » Mon May 05, 2008 10:59 am

Ok, we know that you are a joke. But now you are trying to suggest that we are all senile.

ZH/Franky · Post by **ZH/Franky** » Mon May 05, 2008 11:00 am

The whole "New member" status text and lack of that really cool avatar, is a real give away.

That and the fact that your avatar doesn't have "locations PAL50" below it.

And the fact that it's "Grimvader", not "Grinvader"

Can someone please get rid of this idiot? No, idiot is too weak to describe him. Absolute moronic retard.

I want this topic to get back on track, but the moronic retard "grimvader" is trying to ruin that.

Grim, you're not clever, not funny. You're just stupid.

Remember people:

Don't feed the troll.

adventure_of_link · Post by **adventure_of_link** » Mon May 05, 2008 11:29 am

Gil_Hamilton wrote:No you didn't. It was a shoddy cut/paste that didn't consider that the real one had links.

No, the real one only has his Pantheon in italics.

Mine has links.

(on other boards that I have a pantheon displayed that is.)

declan wrote:And yes, he used my photobucket account to get the real grin's avitar

Wrong (although rather partially). the real grin's avatar rotates.

Post by **Agozer** » Mon May 05, 2008 5:00 pm

declan wrote:grimvader is my idiot friend.

And yes, he used my photobucket account to get the real grin's avitar

EDIT: I showed him the Zboard when we were at school.

I thought he would be sensible with his account.

Someone (a real mod) get rid of him before he starts spamming the entire board.

The first rule of ZBoard is - YOU DO NOT TALK ABOUT ZBOARD. At least not with brainless trolls.

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Mon May 05, 2008 9:18 pm

Agozer wrote:
declan wrote:grimvader is my idiot friend.

And yes, he used my photobucket account to get the real grin's avitar

EDIT: I showed him the Zboard when we were at school.

I thought he would be sensible with his account.

Someone (a real mod) get rid of him before he starts spamming the entire board.
The first rule of ZBoard is - YOU DO NOT TALK ABOUT ZBOARD. At least not with brainless trolls.

Where is the facepalm when you need it?

Tallgeese · Post by **Tallgeese** » Mon May 05, 2008 9:49 pm

Franky wrote:The whole "New member" status text and lack of that really cool avatar, is a real give away.

Oh god.

You're joking, right? YOU'RE THE GUY WHO FELL FOR IT. My vision is bad yet even I noticed the difference in names!

ZH/Franky · Post by **ZH/Franky** » Mon May 05, 2008 10:19 pm

Metatron wrote:
Franky wrote:The whole "New member" status text and lack of that really cool avatar, is a real give away.
Oh god.

You're joking, right? YOU'RE THE GUY WHO FELL FOR IT. My vision is bad yet even I noticed the difference in names!

Yes. I'm pointing out how it would have been obvious for others.
Hypocrite, I am. And your point is?

Truth Unknown · Post by **Truth Unknown** » Tue May 06, 2008 3:30 am

Not to mention how grin's rotating avatar somehow finds a way to creepily match or fit his post. Or I could be the only one that sees it, maybe I have a case of paranoia.

adventure_of_link · Post by **adventure_of_link** » Tue May 06, 2008 3:34 am

eh, every time I see anger in grin's posts I always refresh it to where the red-eyed avatar appears

PHoNyMiKe · Post by **PHoNyMiKe** » Tue May 06, 2008 6:37 am

there's no need to waste time and money developing an emulator for hardware that doesn't exist. if someone needs some sort of processor that does certain things (like gather user input over a serial bus and display graphics with extra hardware as to take load off the main processor), then they find or make the hardware they need and finish the project. what you speak of can be futher dumbed down as to comparing your idea to that of paying some painter large sums of money to make a fancy painting of your house, instead of paying a builder less money to build the house in real life.