SPC player from bsnes

Anything else related to bsnes goes there.
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Deathlike2
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Post by Deathlike2 »

grinvader wrote:
adventure_of_link wrote:whip out the banstick
Waiting for input from this board's userbase, sorry.
I'm starting to think SmartAlec or SmartAss is more appropriate given the posts.
Continuing [url=http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?board=13.0]FF4[/url] Research...
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Post by Verdauga Greeneyes »

SmartOne wrote:An array? If it only contains one element.
Yeah, you're right. I thought there were more, but eh.
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Post by creaothceann »

Awakened wrote:It can run around 20 MB of RAM with a classic skin and without some of the RAM hogging plugins.
20 MB? Right now v5.3 is playing an MP3 here, at ca. 3.5 MB RAM usage (1.5 MB when running in the background).
Awakened wrote:[...] and I didn't think SPC's sounded as good as they do in SNESAmp.
Well, what SNESAmp options are you using? It can artificially "enhance" the sound.
Verdauga Greeneyes wrote:[...] and [blargg] offers the original source to it on his website (though I can't remember where that is)
http://www.slack.net/~ant/
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Post by SmartOne »

Deathlike2 wrote:I'm starting to think SmartAlec or SmartAss is more appropriate given the posts.
FUNNY!

I think you're the one who's taking this too seriously.
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Post by gllt »

SmartOne wrote:
Deathlike2 wrote:I'm starting to think SmartAlec or SmartAss is more appropriate given the posts.
FUNNY!

I think you're the one who's taking this too seriously.
Point proven? Either way I use foobar and spc has always been great in it for me.
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Post by SmartOne »

If I remember correctly, SNESamp is more accurate (and has better features) than foo.gep.

At least I don't sit here and antagonize people.
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Post by Deathlike2 »

SmartOne wrote:
Deathlike2 wrote:I'm starting to think SmartAlec or SmartAss is more appropriate given the posts.
FUNNY!

I think you're the one who's taking this too seriously.
Your sarcasm came out very poorly. Just watch what you say. It's easy to misinterpret what one thinks with what one writes.
Continuing [url=http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?board=13.0]FF4[/url] Research...
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Post by SmartOne »

Deathlike2 wrote:Your sarcasm came out very poorly. Just watch what you say. It's easy to misinterpret what one thinks with what one writes.
I really don't want to get into this...

But let's just say "other individuals" do much worse and don't get a word. I'm trying to promote a cordial environment.

*insert your mocking here*
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Post by Verdauga Greeneyes »

SmartOne wrote:If I remember correctly, SNESamp is more accurate (and has better features) than foo.gep.
SNESAmp may have better features, but I'm pretty sure kode54's plugin (foo.gep) uses blargg's sound core, which is as accurate as it gets. Mind you I don't know if kode54 keeps changelogs around anywhere, so I can't exactly check.
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Post by mudlord »

I tried out in_mgme.dll, and it doesn't even support RSN RAR archives!
Grievance noted.

Tell that to the retarded Winamp devs. RSN support in Snesamp is a hack.
Hence, I am not adding it. Rename the "RSN" files to RAR then try a suitable archive plugin. Also, subsong support for NSF files in plugins is ALSO a hack, thanks to Winamp devs not being considerate. Least fb2k has the right idea, with subsong support in the core.

Hence I am NOT adding hacks to my plugin: Winamp devs can go STFU, and I need to preserve XMPlay compatibility. That is why I wrote the plugin in the first place.

I have no idea why people are complaining over something thats free.
And because it supports mutliple formats, I can't pick and choose which plugins to use for specific formats without removing conflicting plugins from the Winamp Plugin directory.
Again, grievance noted. Pity that Winamp's plugin system is quite fucked up in so many ways. No wonder PP now works on foobar2000.....
This is why a stand-alone player would be ideal.
Grievance noted. Don't expect anything though.
As for an spc plugin based off bsnes' sound core, bsnes uses blargg's sound core with some modifications to accomodate the emulator's design, and he offers the original source to it on his website (though I can't remember where that is).. if someone here knows how to make winamp plugins actually making one shouldn't be overly difficult. I think the main problem is that most people are either fine with SNESAmp or prefer kode54's foobar2000 plugin.
Noted. Why not use snes_spc? That is basically the same code....:/
If I remember correctly, SNESamp is more accurate (and has better features) than foo.gep.
Give exact examples.

Or at least some double blind listening test results. foo_gep, uses blarggs code. Which uses cycle accurate cores for DSP emulation. I didn't think snesamp used a cycle accurate approach....
byuu

Post by byuu »

Yeah, not sure why you'd hear such a difference. It must be an issue with Winamp itself resampling the audio or something.

My S-DSP emulator is bit-for-bit identical with blargg's snes_dsp lib. The only thing completely different is our S-SMP processor emulators, but they're similar enough, really. blargg wrote an amazingly comprehensive test that checks all cycle positions so we both have cycle-perfect timing of all possible-to-observe opcodes.

The only differences I can think of are that mine emulates most of the S-SMP TEST register, and blargg's emulates the timer reset glitch behavior. Neither of which any games ever use.

I've been thinking about making bsnes load SPC files in standalone mode, but it just seems like it'd make a really, really crappy player that's hard to use. I'm also not too big on the format. It can't emulate S-CPU communication, and the startup state is not fully captured by the file format. SNSF is closer to what I'd like.

One important thing is that the most accurate and the best sounding are mutually exclusive. Gaussian interpolation sucks, but it's needed for a few effects to sound right. Replacing that internally is going to make things sound better in 99% of cases. I'm happy that you guys think bsnes sounds the best, of course; but I think it's quite possible to make it sound even better -- it just won't be as accurate anymore. Of course, for a music player, I don't think it really matters -- merely a personal preference.
I have no idea why people are complaining over something thats free.
I've been trying to figure that one out for years.
Last edited by byuu on Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by mudlord »

It must be an issue with Winamp itself resampling the audio or something.
I could write a test app for the people interested in listening tests.
byuu

Post by byuu »

mudlord wrote:
It must be an issue with Winamp itself resampling the audio or something.
I could write a test app for the people interested in listening tests.
If you want. Have it dump the output to a raw 32khz 16-bit stereo WAV file. Then we can compare the exact outputs and see how different they are.
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Post by Deathlike2 »

byuu wrote:
I have no idea why people are complaining over something thats free.
I've been trying to figure that one out for years.
People tend to demand for something they don't realize that it already exists or they want is run a certain way that's not possible or... you don't want that option. There's no happy medium.
Continuing [url=http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?board=13.0]FF4[/url] Research...
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Post by Awakened »

creaothceann wrote:20 MB? Right now v5.3 is playing an MP3 here, at ca. 3.5 MB RAM usage (1.5 MB when running in the background).
Impressive. There's so many ways to monitor RAM usage in Windows taskman and I'm not sure if I'm looking at the most accurate reading. Right now Winamp seems to be using about 16MB of Private Working Set Memory playing a Kirby SPC :P
creaothceann wrote:Well, what SNESAmp options are you using? It can artificially "enhance" the sound.
I've always had it on High Quality as opposed to Like the SNES. I like the stereo feature in NotSoFatso too. I don't need such things entirely accurate.
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Post by SmartOne »

mudlord wrote:I have no idea why people are complaining over something thats free.
If you're going to release something to the public, expect opinions. All of us enjoy software that fulfills the wants of this niche. Maybe you should be more optimistic. Instead of the derogatory word "complaining," consider "observing" or "suggesting."

I'm passionate about this stuff and want my voice heard. I will say what I think, and if you don't like it, I don't care. :D
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Post by gllt »

Edit your license for bsnes to not allow "complaining", unless it is simply misconstrued "observing" or "suggesting."

yw
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Post by SmartOne »

teehee
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Post by franpa »

byuu wrote:I've been thinking about making bsnes load SPC files in standalone mode, but it just seems like it'd make a really, really crappy player that's hard to use. I'm also not too big on the format. It can't emulate S-CPU communication, and the startup state is not fully captured by the file format. SNSF is closer to what I'd like.
I'd love it if you did. I too think that winamp does something weird to the sound because SnesAMP sounds better then MGME in Winamp yet MGME sounds better in foo.gep....
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Post by Gil_Hamilton »

Awakened wrote:
creaothceann wrote:Well, what SNESAmp options are you using? It can artificially "enhance" the sound.
I've always had it on High Quality as opposed to Like the SNES. I like the stereo feature in NotSoFatso too. I don't need such things entirely accurate.
NES stereo is hit and miss.

Sometimes it's great, other times it makes no sense(such as when the separate channels have different parts of the same sound).



For what it's worth, NotSoFatso is still being accurate, in a way.
Unless I'm mistaken, it doesn't allow you to choose what channels go on what side. You're stuck with the NES sound chip mixing.

A real deck outputs the 2 square waves on one pin, and the triangle wave, noise, and DAC on a second pin. It's a fairly trivial effort to lift these pins, add some filter caps, and use the unmixed audio. It's only SLIGHTLY less trivial to add some cross-mixing to reduce the separation without eliminating it.
Consequently, it's a fairly common mod, and there's homebrew music designed to take advantage of it.
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Post by SmartOne »

franpa wrote:I too think that winamp does something weird to the sound because SnesAMP sounds better then MGME in Winamp yet MGME sounds better in foo.gep....
Are you sure you're hearing this? I'm now using MGME in XMPlay to aviod conflicts with other Winamp plugins. I think it may be my new SPC plugin, if it really is the most accurate. :D Thanks for the work.

Does anyone know why the Starfox "Emergency Emergency" speaking part "plays too fast," as some have claimed? Is this true?

NotSo Fatso is very inacurrate, unfortunately. Try turning off all the filters. NEZplug++ (notice both +'s) is cutting edge for NSFs, GBSs, and the like.
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Post by SmartOne »

I notice scratchiness on the "edge" of the sounds on some instruments in MGME (like in SNESamp.) Is that what SNES is supposed to sound like? At the beginning of the song Cotton Island from the game Plok! (everyone should have this set,) the scratchiness is easy to hear.

I'm going to run Plok! in bsnes and see if the same sound happens.

EDIT: Yup, exactly the same in bsnes. Plok!'s music seems particularly scratchy in general. Unfortunate.
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Post by creaothceann »

byuu wrote:I'm also not too big on the [SPC] format.
It's certainly... unique. :?
byuu wrote:
I have no idea why people are complaining over something thats free.
I've been trying to figure that one out for years.
In the best case complaints/requests may be fixed/implemented. In the worst case, they may be simply ignored. So there's no downside to it, so to speak.
Awakened wrote:
creaothceann wrote:20 MB? Right now v5.3 is playing an MP3 here, at ca. 3.5 MB RAM usage (1.5 MB when running in the background).
Impressive. There's so many ways to monitor RAM usage in Windows taskman and I'm not sure if I'm looking at the most accurate reading. Right now Winamp seems to be using about 16MB of Private Working Set Memory playing a Kirby SPC :P
I should add that this is on XP with the classic design, not Vista.
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Post by FitzRoy »

I've removed SPC ripping from unsupported features based on what you guys are saying about it. I can't find a foobar plugin for snsf, unfortunately (doesn't seem very popular), but it has Lord of the Rings and Lost Vikings in its library, which are impossible to capture with SPC. I take it the SNSF strategy requires romhacking knowledge to create the files, so it's no wonder it never really took off. I suppose it's impossible to have a format that is as easy as SPC and as inclusive as SNSF?
byuu

Post by byuu »

You could capture the full S-SMP + S-DSP state, and then log all the S-CPU accesses as they occur. As most SPCs don't communicate with the S-CPU at all, they would remain very small. Those using streaming audio would grow by quite a bit, but it shouldn't be that bad.

One issue is sound effects getting in the way. You would either have to apply channel muting, or use some ROM hacking to disable them.

Another issue would be that the format would be much less tolerant of variances between emulators. The CPU<>SMP communication wouldn't tolerate different clock frequencies, or different / inaccurate opcode timings.
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