Where is the border between playable and unplayable FPS?

SPX · Post by **SPX** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:57 pm

Just curious as to everyone's opinion on where the border lies between playable and unplayable frame rates. As I mentioned in another thread, my PC runs games at around 4-5 FPS (unplayable) with the sound on and 14-16 FPS with the sound turned off (which I found to be playable).

What does everyone else think?

sweener2001 · Post by **sweener2001** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:33 pm

GAMING DISCUSSION

Post by **odditude** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:34 pm

it depends heavily on the game... an rpg like arcana could get by at 2 fps, while a twitchfest requiring perfect timing like r-type III will quickly become unplayable at anything but 60fps.

many games are perfectly playable at 30fps, with the caveat that any blinking tricks using alternate frames might make have issues (e.g. get hit in zelda or megaman x, and you disappear).

SPX · Post by **SPX** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:47 pm

sweener2001 wrote:GAMING DISCUSSION

Directly related to my experience with ZSNES.

dfreer · Post by **dfreer** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:46 am

Anything above 30 FPS seems fine with me, I know if I get any lower than that on Counter-Strike: Source my aiming goes to shit. I remember only getting about 30 FPS with ZSNES back in the day, I think it was ok back then (playable).

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:05 am

Back in The Day, when I had to worry about such things, I considered below 50 unplayable. The choppiness became visually distracting.

PC games are a different beast totally, given they aren't programmed to maintain a specific frame rate in the first place.

blackmyst · Post by **blackmyst** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:13 am

For 3D games it doesn't matter shit, because they're all a gooey imprecise mess anyway. For 2D platformers or something, anything under 60 is unacceptable.

Post by **grinvader** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:16 pm

Unplayable is when you aren't entertained enough, regardless to other factors.

And yes, that implies some games are unplayable even at their native FPS.

Clements · Post by **Clements** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:31 pm

I played SNES games @ ~40/60 fps about 8 years ago.

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:59 am

Clements wrote:I played SNES games @ ~40/60 fps about 8 years ago.

I used to play with a keyboard to squeeze that last frame out of my system.

Had a Gravis GamePad Pro, gameport version.
Couldn't use it in GrIP mode, ate too many cycles interpreting it.
So I switched it into 4-button gamepad mode for ZSNES. That was usable in most games. I just held it near the keyboard and mapped start, select, L, and R to buttons near the edge.

Post by **odditude** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:46 pm

Gil_Hamilton wrote:Had a Gravis GamePad Pro, gameport version.

i had a pair of them, they were full of win. although the d-pads were a little loose, and that made ducking in contra more like angling-down-and-getting-shot-in-the-face half the time.

Post by **grinvader** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:15 pm

odditude wrote:angling-down-and-getting-shot-in-the-face

This is what golden memories are made of.

Post by **odditude** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:59 pm

grinvader wrote:
odditude wrote:angling-down-and-getting-shot-in-the-face
This is what golden memories are made of.

and all of a sudden, this thread is going in a completely disturbing direction, lol

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:07 am

odditude wrote:
Gil_Hamilton wrote:Had a Gravis GamePad Pro, gameport version.
i had a pair of them, they were full of win. although the d-pads were a little loose, and that made ducking in contra more like angling-down-and-getting-shot-in-the-face half the time.

A little loose? I'd define them as worthless crap.

I got mine because FF7 PC had a coupon on the front of the box, and a Playstation pad knockoff seemed like the optimum toy to play FF7 with.

Post by **grinvader** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:24 pm

odditude wrote:
grinvader wrote:
odditude wrote:angling-down-and-getting-shot-in-the-face
This is what golden memories are made of.
and all of a sudden, this thread is going in a completely disturbing direction, lol

WELCOME TO THE ZSNES BOARDS

Pasky · Post by **Pasky** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:16 pm

I remember playing through lufia 2 at 14fps =P

ZH/Franky · Post by **ZH/Franky** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:09 pm

I think some people here are forgetting one thing: "playable" does not nescesarily mean "enjoyable".
As far as I'm concerned, anything below fullspeed is crap.

creaothceann · Post by **creaothceann** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:17 pm

If frameskipping is deactivated then a low fps can make a game more playable (e.g. shoot 'em ups).

ZH/Franky · Post by **ZH/Franky** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:27 pm

creaothceann wrote:If frameskipping is deactivated then a low fps can make a game more playable (e.g. shoot 'em ups).

Yeah, but that spoils the fun. I like my schmups to be challenging.

Post by **grinvader** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 7:48 pm

STOP

JACKHAMMER TIME

Franky wrote:I think some people here are forgetting one thing: "playable" does not nescesarily mean "enjoyable".

grinvader wrote:Unplayable is when you aren't entertained enough, regardless to other factors.

And yes, that implies some games are unplayable even at their native FPS.

Your opinion < my opinion

also

my schmups

it's SHMUPS, fgsfds

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:18 am

grinvader wrote: also
my schmups
it's SHMUPS, fgsfds

SHOOTERS.

Johan_H · Post by **Johan_H** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:59 am

SCHOOTERS

gllt · Post by **gllt** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:12 pm

oh schnap

Post by **grinvader** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:29 pm

Nach mocks any cellphone that doesn't come with a bottle of schnapps

it's true

ZH/Franky · Post by **ZH/Franky** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 6:54 pm

grinvader wrote:STOP

JACKHAMMER TIME

Franky wrote:I think some people here are forgetting one thing: "playable" does not nescesarily mean "enjoyable".

grinvader wrote:Unplayable is when you aren't entertained enough, regardless to other factors.

And yes, that implies some games are unplayable even at their native FPS.
Your opinion < my opinion

Haha, okey dokey. Btw, you're thinking of playability as "ability to not get bored, i.e. the ability to enjoy yourself", whereas I'm thinking strictly in terms of physically being able to play the game properly in the way the developers intended, regardless of whether or not you enjoy it (I said that "playable" doesn't mean "enjoyable", didn't I?).

Because you see, under your logic, a game is unplayable when it's unenjoyable, even though it is enjoyable (and thus, under your logic, playable) for others (even moreso that the people who don't enjoy the game can still probably play the game). Playability is an objective thing, and enjoyability is a subjective thing; i.e. they are two seperate things, but under your logic they are mixed together.

But under my logic, playability and enjoyability are seperate; you can have a playable game that has the ability to be enjoyable for others but unenjoyable for others. Take for example, Tekken Tag Tournament for the PS2; for both me and my dad it's 100% playable, but completely unenjoyable/uninteresting for him, but a lot of fun for me.
At the same time, Gran Turismo 4 is again 100% playable for both me and my dad, but completely unenjoyable/uninteresting to me, and fully enjoyable/interesting for my dad.

You could argue that some people are physically unable to play the game for some reason (most probably because they suck), and thus the game is unenjoyable; but you'd be wrong --> it's not that they don't enjoy the game itself; they just don't enjoy their physical inability to play the game. So basically, here's the jist of what I've been saying, dude:
In regards to the game itself, on it's own, playability and enjoyability are both completely unrelated *and* absolutely uncorrelated with each other.

So, my opinion wipes the floor forwards, backwards, sideways, inside-out and back again, with yours.

it's SHMUPS, fgsfds

I thought it was schmups. Ohwell.
("Schmups" looks cooler than "shmups" anyway, so I'm sticking to it).