doing my own little research, and loving to nickel and dime myself higher than the great system odditude layed out, I have added 1 more requirement to my system. I want to be able to upgrade it in 2 years to double it's gaming power for less than an estimated futuristic price of $300. my 2 computers are currently obsolete, and have no chance of upgrading. reading up on the 4870, it seems power almost doubles when doing crossfire. so in two years, how about a second 4870, a bigger power supply, and faster or even quad core processor. I would estimate those 3 items being less than $300 in 2 years.
ASUS P5Q Pro - $25 more
could I drop say $300 on a vid card in a few years that still uses pci express 2.0 x16? are there any foreseeable limits to pci express like 2GB SD cards and 4GB SDHC where you need to start over with new hardware? a 4870x2 would surely be down in price, and still fit the slot. maybe in 2 years I could get dual 4870x2's off ebay real cheap and a newer power supply.
also the asus 4870 had more poor reviews than the his 4870. I've always used asus motherboards, never had a single problem. the last video card I purchased was an agp 64MB ati rage pro almost 8 years ago. it was actually made by ati, not just the gpu. so I have no idea what brands are better than others. is saphire any good? I really don't want to get the asus card based on bad reviews.
again, any recommendations are greatly welcomed. you never know how long hardware is gonna last, but any other good experiences will help. all my shit is ancient, and the only stuff that's ever gone bad are hard drives.
Anybody got a gaming rig?
Moderator: General Mods
the ability to drop-in a faster processor at that time is up in the air. the new architecture about to hit the market is using two new socket designs (enthusiast/triple-channel QPI this quarter, mainstream/dual-channel DMI 1h09). i'm sure intel will continue to release 775 processors, but there's no guarantee that it won't be pushed to the side as a budget platform.
also, intel has no issues dramatically changing thermal and power requirements throughout the lifetime of a socket. this, in addition to the "newer cpu requires a newer chipset" issue that happens sometimes, causes situations like where someone with a presler or cedar mill P4 6xx or PD 9xx (which were the best intel cpus 3 years ago) can't upgrade to a c2d/c2q.
in general, you can rarely guarantee a cpu upgrade three years down the line.
on the video card side - i'm not personally familiar with HIS or Sapphire, but they've been around long enough. Sapphire was the sole manufacturer of ATI-based cards for the European market back when ATI was still manufacturing their own cards for the NA market, so they've been around and were trusted by ATI themselves.
it's unlikely for pci express 2.0 to be supplanted by anything but pci express 3.0, which (at current) is backwards-compatible with pcie 2.0/1.0 and possibly hitting the market in 2010.
the risk with using crossfire for an upgrade three years hence is availability - will anyone still be selling 4870s then? nobody can give you a definite answer on that. however, consider this: if you had a geforce 7900gtx from two and a half years ago, you'd need to ebay for a second card - and even then, it wouldn't be any faster than a current $120 card (9800gt).
upgrading the power supply, on the other hand, will be nice and easy - it's highly unlikely that the ATX form factor is going away any time in the near future.
also, intel has no issues dramatically changing thermal and power requirements throughout the lifetime of a socket. this, in addition to the "newer cpu requires a newer chipset" issue that happens sometimes, causes situations like where someone with a presler or cedar mill P4 6xx or PD 9xx (which were the best intel cpus 3 years ago) can't upgrade to a c2d/c2q.
in general, you can rarely guarantee a cpu upgrade three years down the line.
on the video card side - i'm not personally familiar with HIS or Sapphire, but they've been around long enough. Sapphire was the sole manufacturer of ATI-based cards for the European market back when ATI was still manufacturing their own cards for the NA market, so they've been around and were trusted by ATI themselves.
it's unlikely for pci express 2.0 to be supplanted by anything but pci express 3.0, which (at current) is backwards-compatible with pcie 2.0/1.0 and possibly hitting the market in 2010.
the risk with using crossfire for an upgrade three years hence is availability - will anyone still be selling 4870s then? nobody can give you a definite answer on that. however, consider this: if you had a geforce 7900gtx from two and a half years ago, you'd need to ebay for a second card - and even then, it wouldn't be any faster than a current $120 card (9800gt).
upgrading the power supply, on the other hand, will be nice and easy - it's highly unlikely that the ATX form factor is going away any time in the near future.
Why yes, my shift key *IS* broken.
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sweener2001
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newegg still sells geforce 4's, i think. videocard availability isn't a huge issue, but it's been awhile since i've checked that out.
and from what i've read, the core i7 socket seems to have been built to stay for awhile. at least from reviews i've read. it should still be around when intel goes into their tick phase and introduces 32 nm.
if 600-ish is the goal, here's my go at a gaming rig.
Open Box mobo - 60
80 plus, 500 W psu - 50
Core 2 Duo E8400 - 160
4850 videocard - 150
4 GB (4x1) RAM - 85
500 GB hdd - 70
22x dvd burner - 28
i'm at 603 right now. this set-up obviously doesn't include a case, but you've either got one already, or you can find one for cheap that fits your tastes.
you'll need to factor in a little more for some sata cables, so my setup is probably looking at 620 or something. it's not super upgradeable, as it's an LGA 775 socket, and that's on the way out with the core i7's finally available. it also only has one pci-e 2.0 x16 slot. and all the RAM slots are used up which makes for replacement instead of adding when upgrading RAM.
it is upgradeable in that you can get a soundcard down the line, either for pci-e x1 or regular pci.
i chose samsung instead of lite-on for the dvd burner because i've heard that they don't include some kind of hardware DRM lock. i don't even know completely what they were talking about, but it's also a customer choice winner, so that did it for me. and lite-on's are loud.
i splurged a little on the cpu and videocard, but this is a gaming rig we're trying to make. 4 GB of ram means you'll need a 64 bit OS, but i'm sure you knew that.
price of windows isn't factored in, since i'm assuming you won't be purchasing it. i'm also mostly sure that the psu is more than enough at 500 W.
but with an OC, this should do fairly well playing a lot of games at 1920x1200 with full details. crysis being the only exception that comes to mind. most other games will give you at least 40+ fps, with a few like mass effect and ut3 giving around 60 fps.
not my best build, but i did it in about 15 minutes.
and from what i've read, the core i7 socket seems to have been built to stay for awhile. at least from reviews i've read. it should still be around when intel goes into their tick phase and introduces 32 nm.
if 600-ish is the goal, here's my go at a gaming rig.
Open Box mobo - 60
80 plus, 500 W psu - 50
Core 2 Duo E8400 - 160
4850 videocard - 150
4 GB (4x1) RAM - 85
500 GB hdd - 70
22x dvd burner - 28
i'm at 603 right now. this set-up obviously doesn't include a case, but you've either got one already, or you can find one for cheap that fits your tastes.
you'll need to factor in a little more for some sata cables, so my setup is probably looking at 620 or something. it's not super upgradeable, as it's an LGA 775 socket, and that's on the way out with the core i7's finally available. it also only has one pci-e 2.0 x16 slot. and all the RAM slots are used up which makes for replacement instead of adding when upgrading RAM.
it is upgradeable in that you can get a soundcard down the line, either for pci-e x1 or regular pci.
i chose samsung instead of lite-on for the dvd burner because i've heard that they don't include some kind of hardware DRM lock. i don't even know completely what they were talking about, but it's also a customer choice winner, so that did it for me. and lite-on's are loud.
i splurged a little on the cpu and videocard, but this is a gaming rig we're trying to make. 4 GB of ram means you'll need a 64 bit OS, but i'm sure you knew that.
price of windows isn't factored in, since i'm assuming you won't be purchasing it. i'm also mostly sure that the psu is more than enough at 500 W.
but with an OC, this should do fairly well playing a lot of games at 1920x1200 with full details. crysis being the only exception that comes to mind. most other games will give you at least 40+ fps, with a few like mass effect and ut3 giving around 60 fps.
not my best build, but i did it in about 15 minutes.
[img]http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/sweener2001/StewieSIGPIC.png[/img]
only the budget ones. same goes for geforce fx, geforce 6, geforce 7...sweener2001 wrote:newegg still sells geforce 4's, i think.
two different sockets for nehalem - one for the triple-channel memory controller & QPI of the core i7, and one for the dual-channel memory controller & DMI of the yet-to-be-officially-named mainstream variant. the tri-channel core i7 is the only one that's coming out this year, and getting a gaming system under $600 with one isn't reasonable. consideration of that socket instead of 775 is out, so this argument is null.sweener2001 wrote:and from what i've read, the core i7 socket seems to have been built to stay for awhile. at least from reviews i've read. it should still be around when intel goes into their tick phase and introduces 32 nm.
Why yes, my shift key *IS* broken.
either I have spot on timing, or technology really jumps quick. in the two weeks since odditude posted his awesome idea, I can now get double the ram and upgraded vid card for $50 more. free shipping all around. mail in rebates are good as cash to me.
ASUS EAH4850/TOP - $169.99 (before $30 MIR)
Kingston 2 x 1GB DDR2-800 - $27.99
$167.98 after mail in rebate
SAPPHIRE 4870 - $229.99 (before $20 MIR)
CORSAIR 2 x 2GB DDR2-800 - $54.99 (before $30 MIR)
-$24.99 newegg combo deal
$209.99 after rebates
as for the mobo, I can get the dual pci express x16 version for $10 more after mail in rebate. in a few years if I ever do upgrade, I can slap $200 worth of whatever vid cards are good at the time. dual 4870x2's would pry lag a little bit on whatever games of the future.
I have a spare 500GB seagate sata disk, and an old dvd burner that works just fine. I'm looking at a corsair power supply.
ASUS EAH4850/TOP - $169.99 (before $30 MIR)
Kingston 2 x 1GB DDR2-800 - $27.99
$167.98 after mail in rebate
SAPPHIRE 4870 - $229.99 (before $20 MIR)
CORSAIR 2 x 2GB DDR2-800 - $54.99 (before $30 MIR)
-$24.99 newegg combo deal
$209.99 after rebates
as for the mobo, I can get the dual pci express x16 version for $10 more after mail in rebate. in a few years if I ever do upgrade, I can slap $200 worth of whatever vid cards are good at the time. dual 4870x2's would pry lag a little bit on whatever games of the future.
I have a spare 500GB seagate sata disk, and an old dvd burner that works just fine. I'm looking at a corsair power supply.
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win, dude, but make sure those rebates can actually be fulfilled - one of the rebate houses just died.
Why yes, my shift key *IS* broken.
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snkcube
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Since we're on the subject of custom built computers....
http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/Publi ... r=11418228
This is a proposed list of parts I am planning on buying. Is it any good? I am trying to keep the total cost around $1,500.
http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/Publi ... r=11418228
This is a proposed list of parts I am planning on buying. Is it any good? I am trying to keep the total cost around $1,500.
Try out CCleaner and other free software at Piriform
i'm not a fan of el-cheapo or store-branded power supplies, personally (rosewill is newegg's house brand). also, the wattage on the PSU is overkill, unless you're planning on throwing a higher end video card in. assuming you're sticking with a single video card, i'd recommend something 80 PLUS certified in the 450W-550W range from someone like corsair, enermax, pcp&c, antec, silverstone...
you're going to be gpu-limited by that 4850 - you're not going to gain any gaming performance from nehalem over a c2d/c2q unless you go with a higher-end video card.
the voltage on that memory isn't listed... might not be suitable (aka too high) for nehalem. the board has a triple-channel memory controller - you ideally want three sticks, so look at a tri-channel kit. (i know the board has 4 slots, but that's just uncharacteristic laziness from intel - you don't want two pairs of DIMMs on this board.)
if you want other suggestions (or better explanations), let me know.
you're going to be gpu-limited by that 4850 - you're not going to gain any gaming performance from nehalem over a c2d/c2q unless you go with a higher-end video card.
the voltage on that memory isn't listed... might not be suitable (aka too high) for nehalem. the board has a triple-channel memory controller - you ideally want three sticks, so look at a tri-channel kit. (i know the board has 4 slots, but that's just uncharacteristic laziness from intel - you don't want two pairs of DIMMs on this board.)
if you want other suggestions (or better explanations), let me know.
Why yes, my shift key *IS* broken.
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sweener2001
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echo odditude.
i recommend this motherboard. cheaper, triple channel capable. not DDR3 1600, though. I haven't looked at the best deal for DDR3 1600 boards.
while paying less for the motherboard (3 x 1) GB of DDR3 is not that cheap at the moment. I think it's another 220 for DD3 1333. (3 x 2) GB is even more ridiculous. And it hurts because tomshardware.com ran a test conducted by corsair showing that 6 GB made for a drastic improvement over 3 GB.
the RAM you have listed is 1.5 V, according to a customer review, and that's below the threshold for nehalem.
and given the brute force of any nehalem chip, the 4850 will be the choke point in your system.
It's an excellent base, though. a little more tweaking on parts, and you'll have a pretty rockin' system.
mod edit: fixed the URL bbcode
i recommend this motherboard. cheaper, triple channel capable. not DDR3 1600, though. I haven't looked at the best deal for DDR3 1600 boards.
while paying less for the motherboard (3 x 1) GB of DDR3 is not that cheap at the moment. I think it's another 220 for DD3 1333. (3 x 2) GB is even more ridiculous. And it hurts because tomshardware.com ran a test conducted by corsair showing that 6 GB made for a drastic improvement over 3 GB.
the RAM you have listed is 1.5 V, according to a customer review, and that's below the threshold for nehalem.
and given the brute force of any nehalem chip, the 4850 will be the choke point in your system.
It's an excellent base, though. a little more tweaking on parts, and you'll have a pretty rockin' system.
mod edit: fixed the URL bbcode
[img]http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/sweener2001/StewieSIGPIC.png[/img]
just to clarify - the smackover (DX58SO) is indeed triple-channel capable, it's just got an idiotic 4 slots on it.
if that corsair is 1.5V, that's just fine (nehalem wants <1.65V).
if that corsair is 1.5V, that's just fine (nehalem wants <1.65V).
Last edited by odditude on Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
Why yes, my shift key *IS* broken.
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snkcube
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Okay, I swapped the 4850 with a 4870. I hope that's good enough. I'm still wondering if I should keep the current motherboard or change it with the one sweener2001 suggested. I kind of want to prepare for the "future" by having DDR3. Now that I switched to a double-slotted video card, should I keep the current power supply? I actually like Rosewill, since they are reliable (I'm using one right now). I had a bad experience with Antec and I kind of want to avoid their products.
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any nehalem board is triple-channel DDR3. you only need to switch boards if you want to be able to use six DIMMs; on the intel board you're limited to 4 (3 for best performance).snkcube wrote:Okay, I swapped the 4850 with a 4870. I hope that's good enough. I'm still wondering if I should keep the current motherboard or change it with the one sweener2001 suggested. I kind of want to prepare for the "future" by having DDR3. Now that I switched to a double-slotted video card, should I keep the current power supply? I actually like Rosewill, since they are reliable (I'm using one right now). I had a bad experience with Antec and I kind of want to avoid their products.
the power supply is still overkill. again, unless you're adding a second card, 450W is more than enough for the system as you laid it out. the 4870 doesn't draw much more power than the 4850.
Why yes, my shift key *IS* broken.
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snkcube
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Sorry about the DDR2 confusion. I don't know what I was typing...
Well, I swapped the power supply with a 450W one. It should be good enough. For the RAM, I'm going to stick with 2GB for now. I might even kill the cheap speakers and just use my old ones.
Well, I swapped the power supply with a 450W one. It should be good enough. For the RAM, I'm going to stick with 2GB for now. I might even kill the cheap speakers and just use my old ones.
Try out CCleaner and other free software at Piriform
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sweener2001
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it will indeed do dual-channel. a third dimm can be added later; just make sure to match specs (and preferably make/model).sweener2001 wrote:performance will take a bit of hit going dual channel instead of triple. i can't even remember if it lets you, but i think it will. worst case is single channel, i guess.
Why yes, my shift key *IS* broken.
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snkcube
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I made one final change (I hope) to the RAM by buying a triple channel kit instead. It's only about a $22 increase over my original choice. Any thoughts on it? Also, thank you both odditude and sweener2001 for helping me out on this. I'm learning a lot from this!
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sweener2001
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i'd still go with the motherboard i suggested. i don't see any advantages that this one offers for the higher price. plus six slots will allow you to throw in another (3 x 1) GB kit down the line.
and thanks to the mod that fixed my tags. forgot to check my post.
and thanks to the mod that fixed my tags. forgot to check my post.
[img]http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/sweener2001/StewieSIGPIC.png[/img]
glad to be of assistance.
i agree with sweener on the MSI board, btw... it's a nice layout, and MSI makes a decent board. the only "downsides" to the board are slightly worse integrated audio (which, if you care that much about, means you need a real sound card anyway) and no fantastic intel gigE.
i agree with sweener on the MSI board, btw... it's a nice layout, and MSI makes a decent board. the only "downsides" to the board are slightly worse integrated audio (which, if you care that much about, means you need a real sound card anyway) and no fantastic intel gigE.
Why yes, my shift key *IS* broken.