I'm about to sound way too serious for this thread now....
Lincoln is indeed iconified as being something greater than he was. He may have abolished slavery (in perhaps the least efficient way), but he was no champion of equity as he did not favor a desegregated society or giving blacks voting rights and political entry.
Civil War is a misnomer, the South never wanted control of the North, they wanted independence from it. But history is written by the winners. Underneath it all was a dispute over protectionist tariffs favoring the North and slavery may have been a more effective pretext for preserving the union. Lincoln didn't let the constitution get in his way, he censored and jailed dissenters, issued fiat currency, probably some other shit I'm forgetting. I don't know if war could have been avoided by simply buying the slaves. I also don't how history would have played out had he allowed states their constitutional right to secede. Slavery certainly would not have lasted very long even with secession. It had been peacefully abolished by major countries at that point and trade relationships would have been hard for the South to maintain. Mechanization also made many slave jobs obsolete.
I generally blame the whole sorry episode on our (somewhat hypocritical) forefathers failing to address the matter in their time when writing the constitution. Being able to draft an entire body of supreme law is an amazing opportunity, they could have done better.
Besides causing all that death and bitterness, it also gave a sort of perverse justification for increased federal power over the states. Secession can be done for good reasons, though. For example, let's say the federal government today forced a bunch of small states with balanced budgets to subsidize the failure that is California. Those states would be within their right to threaten secession. In fact, I support any state with the balls to do it today, the federal government is completely out of control.
I'm not sure exactly what motivations Lincoln had with abolishing slavery, but it makes one wonder at the point that things could possibly get out of hand (and much more bloody than it was then) if it didn't happen earlier.
I'd say it's better to preach tolerance... and above all.. people are people. In unity, you can accomplish more, but you don't have to get along with everyone.. people are jackasses too.
FirebrandX wrote:The liberals would fail first, because everybody would be on wellfair with nobody working to pay for it. Then they'd attempt to become a fully communistic state, causing people to flee for the border into the conservative countries, only we wouldn't take them because they'd just try the same crap all over again.
A manager pulled a pin for the restaurant's fire suppression system, which rained chemicals on her and others, because she was told to by a man on the phone claiming to be her boss from the corporate office.
"And then they were told by this person on the phone to go outside and disrobe and actually urinate on one another to decontaminate each other," said Lt. Peter Bartlett.
Police said that somehow, the prankster managed to keep the employees on the phone for 10 to 15 minutes. Only when someone in the parking lot called police to say a woman was standing in the doorway naked did police and fire show up, and that's when the prankster finally hung up.
A manager pulled a pin for the restaurant's fire suppression system, which rained chemicals on her and others, because she was told to by a man on the phone claiming to be her boss from the corporate office.
"And then they were told by this person on the phone to go outside and disrobe and actually urinate on one another to decontaminate each other," said Lt. Peter Bartlett.
Police said that somehow, the prankster managed to keep the employees on the phone for 10 to 15 minutes. Only when someone in the parking lot called police to say a woman was standing in the doorway naked did police and fire show up, and that's when the prankster finally hung up.
So am I and I;m confused as to what logic is in his post.
Free Republic liberalism = communism.
FWIW, with the current state of things, I'd consider myself fiscally conservative. And neither the Republicans nor Democrats have been fiscally conservative since I started paying attention circa ~1992.
Anyway, sorry if I've assumed too much. Should wait to see what FirebrandX says.
Last edited by byuu on Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
So am I and I;m confused as to what logic is in his post.
Free Republic liberalism = communism.
FWIW, with the current state of things, I'd consider myself fiscally conservative. And neither the Republicans nor Democrats have been fiscally conservative since I started paying attention circa ~1992.
Fiscal conservatism is sadly dead. It's just not feasible in a world where everything is so interconnected.
Which is really too bad. I'd love for it to make a return.
A manager pulled a pin for the restaurant's fire suppression system, which rained chemicals on her and others, because she was told to by a man on the phone claiming to be her boss from the corporate office.
"And then they were told by this person on the phone to go outside and disrobe and actually urinate on one another to decontaminate each other," said Lt. Peter Bartlett.
Police said that somehow, the prankster managed to keep the employees on the phone for 10 to 15 minutes. Only when someone in the parking lot called police to say a woman was standing in the doorway naked did police and fire show up, and that's when the prankster finally hung up.
Dot dot dot.
How can people be so DUMB?
"Employees at the KFC didn't want to talk to reporters about what happened."