Garou Densetsu (Fatal Fury) - Rev A/1

[Eyedunno]

I'm not sure if this is an okay place to post this question, but I remember there being a lot of knowledgeable folks here. Apologies in advance if it's not appropriate.

I ripped my cart of Garou Densetsu via the Mash Mods programmer, and was surprised to find out that while the checksum checks out fine in emulators, GoodSNES and NSRT both fail to recognize it. A little websearching revealed that I have "Rev A" of the game (or "Rev 1", according to the No-Intro project).

So I'm just curious, what does this mean? What's the difference between this and the apparently more widely available version of the game?

[Overload]

The game will be exactly the same. The revision may contain bug fixes, increased copy protection or may have been re-released by a different licensee (e.g. Licensed to Nintendo).

You might want to post the NSRT output.

[grinvader]

You definitely want to post the NSRT output.

[Eyedunno]

The game will be exactly the same. The revision may contain bug fixes, increased copy protection or may have been re-released by a different licensee (e.g. Licensed to Nintendo).

Yeah, and I wondered which of these might be the case, or if there's any way of perhaps determining such.

You might want to post the NSRT output.

I'm not really sure I want to do that...

You definitely want to post the NSRT output.

Well, okay.

Code: Select all

---------------------Internal ROM Info----------------------
       File: Garou Densetsu - Shukumei no Tatakai (J).smc
       Name: GAROU DENSETU            Company: Takara
     Header: None                        Bank: LoROM
Interleaved: None                        SRAM: 0 Kb
       Type: Normal                       ROM: 12 Mb
    Country: Japan                      Video: NTSC
  ROM Speed: 200ns (SlowROM)         Revision: 1.0
   Checksum: Good 0xB9F6            Game Code: 
---------------------------Hashes---------------------------
      CRC32: 0D549E3E
--------------------------Database--------------------------
       Name: Garou Densetsu
    Country: Japan                   Revision: 1.0
     Port 1: Gamepad                   Port 2: Gamepad
    Genre 1: Fighting                 Genre 2: Hand To Hand

---------------------Internal ROM Info----------------------
       File: garoudensetsu.smc
       Name: GAROU DENSETU            Company: Takara
     Header: None                        Bank: LoROM
Interleaved: None                        SRAM: 0 Kb
       Type: Normal                       ROM: 12 Mb
    Country: Japan                      Video: NTSC
  ROM Speed: 200ns (SlowROM)         Revision: 1.1
   Checksum: Good 0x9EF5            Game Code: 
---------------------------Hashes---------------------------
      CRC32: AE4DFED0
--------------------------Database--------------------------
    ROM wasn't found in the database (possible bad dump).
    You can try using -fix or -findover to see if the
    file has been slightly altered in a rectifiable way.

It should be pretty obvious, but the first is from a complete GoodSNES set, while the second is my own dump.

[Nach]

It would seem I don't have the info for your dump in my database yet.

Can you repost the info from your dump with the -hashes parameter?
Thanks.

[Eyedunno]

It would seem I don't have the info for your dump in my database yet.

Can you repost the info from your dump with the -hashes parameter?
Thanks.

Okay, here you go:

Code: Select all

---------------------Internal ROM Info----------------------
       File: garoudensetsu.smc
       Name: GAROU DENSETU            Company: Takara
     Header: None                        Bank: LoROM
Interleaved: None                        SRAM: 0 Kb
       Type: Normal                       ROM: 12 Mb
    Country: Japan                      Video: NTSC
  ROM Speed: 200ns (SlowROM)         Revision: 1.1
   Checksum: Good 0x9EF5            Game Code: 
---------------------------Hashes---------------------------
      CRC32: AE4DFED0
        MD5: 921F3B70F4D61B8F30E470C684D66015
     RIPEMD: 8ABA10C24396697FF533D8F8FBE383F391B096AA
      SHA-1: EB22AF75CFEE35C3E252A282637668460A51EA85
    SHA-256: 55C62CF5E387193F42DBE45DBD506E68A5B1A2C3EF91020D19E5B5854F166BF5
    SHA-512: FF4D50C164F955E0643F1BCD3AAC64C576FCD8FC7032077460E39CEA977D5211
             7F96BCC22BB833350FD1E9C586143D56CB28917CDB7565D3D28392E38BFD7D44
      Tiger: 56272C6CA79A38E596E4F8AFF442405571C6090637E4F4F3
  Whirlpool: 9EC7668F97F3EA63F5137C59FF96257C329FD4D16892D3D22F00233E81A5BAF4
             FEBB1BC6223C57F4921AF3A10D578E3CDC2DADF9C18905B1374ACED3730C4560
--------------------------Database--------------------------
    ROM wasn't found in the database (possible bad dump).
    You can try using -fix or -findover to see if the
    file has been slightly altered in a rectifiable way.

BTW, I also noticed that one title comes up as "Waratte Iitomo! Tamorin Pick", just as it does in GoodSNES. Since this is a pun on Tamori (nickname of the host of the Japanese variety show Waratte Iitomo!) and the Olympics, probably something like "Waratte Iitomo! Tamolympic" would make more sense, though no romanized title would work perfectly, I suppose...

[Hyos]

Can anyone explain the difference with Densetu and Densetsu in the name to me?

[Eyedunno]

Can anyone explain the difference with Densetu and Densetsu in the name to me?

Yes, in more detail than you probably care for. Japanese has five vowels, and each one gets associated with each consonant (well, aside from y and w, which are exceptions in modern Japanese), so with "k" that would be "ka, ki, ku, ke, ko".

In verbs, conjugation is pretty easy to figure out based on this - "kaku" (to write) can become "kakimasu" (same meaning, but distal/polite), "kakanai" (negative), "kake" (imperative), "kakou" (volitional, e.g. "I wish to write/Let's write!"), and other such things that change the vowel. Well, for say "matsu" (to wait), the above forms would be "machimasu", "matanai", "mate", and "matou", which doesn't seem too logical based on the above, huh?

This is because, before "u", "t" is palatalized to "ts", and before "i", it becomes "ch". The "ts" and "ch" certainly make the pronunciation easier for English speakers to passably imitate, but they don't reflect how Japanese people think about their own language. As such, there are two romanization systems in play - Hepburn (used in train stations, for example, for the benefit of foreigners) and Kunrei (learned by Japanese elementary students). In Kunrei, the above plain and distal forms for "to wait" would be "matu" and "matimasu" - much easier to understand, but it doesn't reflect pronunciation variation.

So you'll get a lot of differences like this between the two systems:
(Hepburn)/(Kunrei)
Fuji/Huzi (the tallest mountain in Japan)
sushi/susi (sushi)
densetsu/densetu (legend)

[grinvader]

I FUCKING HATE PEOPLE WRITING SHO SYO

[Agozer]

I FUCKING HATE PEOPLE WRITING SHO SYO

Hepburn romanization ftw.

[odditude]

I FUCKING HATE PEOPLE WRITING SHO SYO

hisshou buraiken!

[Hyos]

So the answer to my question is: the internal ROM name is in Kunrei, while the game is known under it's Hepburn name.

Also, while I did not suspect the reason to be linguistic in nature, the explanation was interesting. Thank you.

[Francis64]

I FUCKING HATE PEOPLE WRITING SHO SYO

SYO-RYU-KEN!!

Umm yeah, I see what you mean now <_<

[Eyedunno]

I personally don't care how people romanize. Hepburn has one good point in that ティ and トゥ become "ti" and "tu" respectively, while Kunrei has no way of distinguishing them from チ and ツ (chi and tsu in Hepburn). But some (older) speakers don't distinguish them in speech anyway.

When I type, I type with a weird mix; I type "ja" (Hepburn, "zya" in Kunrei), but "ti" and "tu" (mentioned above). I basically try and save keystrokes, and I'd say I'm 75% "sho" and 25% "syo", and I have no idea why I use both, but I do.

[byuu]

Both Hepburn and Kunrei suck. Kunrei just sucks more.

Hepburn crushes both oo and ou to ō. Which is quite important for words that actually end in oo, and not ou.

So I don't really use any official system.

[grinvader]

I don't really use any official system.

i typically use -oh for those names ending in -oo (liek, kanoh makoto)

-ou is for shouryuuken and co

[Eyedunno]

I don't really use any official system.

i typically use -oh for those names ending in -oo (liek, kanoh makoto)

-ou is for shouryuuken and co

Well, but Kanou Makoto ends in -ou. See?:
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%8A%A0% ... D%E8%AA%A0
Names like Oono (big field, not to be confused with Ono, small field, like John Lennon's wife) are a good example of things with "oo".

Besides, they're pronounced the same in every dialect that I'm aware of; it's largely a matter of historical interest that they remain written differently (I think oo was originally oho). And the only romanization system that differentiates 気付く and 築く is the old-fashioned Nihonshiki (where they're kiduku and kizuku, respectively), even though some dialects DO still pronounce these differently. You could go more archaic than that and insist on spelling "owari" (the end) as "wohari" and "chouchou" (butterfly) as "tefutefu", but not even kana spelling works that way any more.

[Johan_H]

-ou is for shouryuuken and co

I've always found this confusing as hell because to me, "ou" looks like you're supposed to emphasize the "o" diphthong, rather than kill it.

[grinvader]

the "o" diphthong

wat

Well, but Kanou Makoto ends in -ou.

FFFUUUUUU

[Johan_H]

the "o" diphthong

wat

I mean how a regular English "o" is normally pronounced.