Hi , i have a graphic problem with snes emu

sackofsnack · Post by **sackofsnack** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 6:55 pm

But i dont think its a bug

for example, it happens in every snes emulator, but only with snes emulation, all other work fine (sega, psx, n64 etch)

when i play a snes rom i cant get the roms to play without a black bar on the lower side of the screen, no matter what setting i use, and no matter what snes emulator i try , some screens are fine, like the chrone trigger world map , but inside towns i always get a ugly black bar

with games like street fighter theres always a black bar during matches but never on the character select screen, almost every snes rom i try has this issue`s

my specs are
P4 2.66
nvidia geforce 4 ti4400 (latest drivers + direct 9.c)
1024 mb p3200 ddr ram

i hope someone knows a solution to this, tnx

FitzRoy · Post by **FitzRoy** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 7:14 pm

I'm confused. If you know it's not a bug, why are you asking for a solution? This does happen on the actual system, you know. You never played these games on an actual snes?

On a similar note, this forum is becoming littered with posts of false bug reports and other misc junk that really isn't related to zsnes talk. We should just make a new forum called "I can't use my computer........ (btw im dumb)"

sackofsnack · Post by **sackofsnack** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 7:21 pm

FitzRoy wrote:I'm confused. If you know it's not a bug, why are you asking for a solution? This does happen on the actual system, you know. You never played these games on an actual snes?

On a similar note, this forum is becoming littered with posts of false bug reports and other misc junk that really isn't related to zsnes talk. We should just make a new forum called "I can't use my computer........ (btw im dumb)"

i know its not a bug cause it happens with all snes emulators ( a graphical issue is not a bug) , i am asking for a solution to fix this ( not to fix a bug but to fix a graphical issue) , i had a snes for years , it never showed any black bars for me, neither did my voodoo 3 3000 on my previous pc

and dont claim i dont know how to use my pc, i am a certified IT engineer
also this isnt a bug report, your pretty insulting
ITS HARDWARE RELATED!

christ , i hate people that claim things without any backup, people like you have a room temprature IQ

HalfShadow · Post by **HalfShadow** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 12:20 am

Well, if you're such a genius,why don't you try to use your big engineer brain and fix the problem yourself?

Please do your part to raise the planet's intelligence quotient.

Kill yourself.

Barring that, sodomise yourself with a soldering gun.

Joe Camacho · Post by **Joe Camacho** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 12:29 am

If you are using Windows Xp, download the latest WIP windows version.

snkcube · Post by **snkcube** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 3:37 am

And if you don't know what a WIP is, it's right here.

Post by **grinvader** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 11:40 am

Ok. You don't want black bars. The problem is, computer monitors are very different from the old TV set.
TVs have an analog input and automatically stretch whatever is feed to the screen size. The snes has several graphical modes, and it as been found that for some games, the snes output had this black bar.

The TV gets rid of it by stretching more than it should, this is known as overscan. The overscan was a problem with some games (like Chrono Trigger...) because it actually cut off several pixels left and right, hiding letters in textboxes. Overscan is compeletely TV-dependant. My TV has a real bad left overscan, but yours may be perfect.

Now, back on the problem: this is not an emu bug, as it's been confirmed to be the real snes output. The goal of SNES emu teams is to emulate the snes the most accurately possible.
The real problem goes with computer monitors. Using either DirectX or OpenGL you can't stretch 'out of bounds'. You have to use the resolution(s) allowed. So the black bars are still on the picture.
The only way to fix it I can imagine would be to ask manufacturers to add a analog input for monitors, and use a TV-out card.

sackofsnack · Post by **sackofsnack** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 12:59 pm

thank you, finally a person i can communicate with in understandable languange

whats the problem with the rest of you >? cant get a girlfriend ? someone bothering you on school ? are you following a terrorist course and practise by yelling at people to kill themselves ?
or worse, you must have voted bush, that explains your redneck behavior

(and it engineering is several people working together with a amount of tech knowledge to form a solution , expaining its name INFORMATION, COMMUNICATION and technology, but ofcourse a bunch of rednecks will never understand that)

and sadly my tv doesnt do the output correct either =\ . it gives the same bar my monitor does in certain parts of games, anyway tnx for the respond

Dmog · Post by **Dmog** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:03 pm

grinvader wrote:Ok. You don't want black bars. The problem is, computer monitors are very different from the old TV set.
TVs have an analog input and automatically stretch whatever is feed to the screen size. The snes has several graphical modes, and it as been found that for some games, the snes output had this black bar.

The TV gets rid of it by stretching more than it should, this is known as overscan. The overscan was a problem with some games (like Chrono Trigger...) because it actually cut off several pixels left and right, hiding letters in textboxes. Overscan is compeletely TV-dependant. My TV has a real bad left overscan, but yours may be perfect.

Now, back on the problem: this is not an emu bug, as it's been confirmed to be the real snes output. The goal of SNES emu teams is to emulate the snes the most accurately possible.
The real problem goes with computer monitors. Using either DirectX or OpenGL you can't stretch 'out of bounds'. You have to use the resolution(s) allowed. So the black bars are still on the picture.
The only way to fix it I can imagine would be to ask manufacturers to add a analog input for monitors, and use a TV-out card.

Holy crap! An intelligent reply! Nice to see some intelligence in here, no thanks to flaming faggots like halfshadow.

Post by **grinvader** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:28 pm

Oy, don't start again... or the crush will ensue.

sackofsnack · Post by **sackofsnack** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:42 pm

grinvader wrote:Oy, don't start again... or the crush will ensue.

true , and oh
seems its also output based, seems diff snes games use diff output for the screen ratio
for instance , when i try zelda 3 , i dont see any bars anywhere in the game, the picture is perfect

in street fighter 2 i get to see a black bar on top, and in chrono trigger a black bar in the lower side of the screen, but only in towns

il just live with it, i was just wondering why snes screen ratio is giving modern day hardware such a challenge , where megadrive, master system, n64, psx , amiga , TG16 , etch etch is giving perfect picture

Post by **grinvader** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:45 pm

As I said, the SNES has several display modes. Some are 'fullscreen' and some others have these black borders.

I don't know about other consoles... Maybe their graphical modes are all fullscreen.
Blame Nintendo, I guess.

sackofsnack · Post by **sackofsnack** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:46 pm

k tnx for all your information

FitzRoy · Post by **FitzRoy** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 2:57 am

sackofsnack wrote:
FitzRoy wrote:I'm confused. If you know it's not a bug, why are you asking for a solution? This does happen on the actual system, you know. You never played these games on an actual snes?

On a similar note, this forum is becoming littered with posts of false bug reports and other misc junk that really isn't related to zsnes talk. We should just make a new forum called "I can't use my computer........ (btw im dumb)"
i know its not a bug cause it happens with all snes emulators ( a graphical issue is not a bug) , i am asking for a solution to fix this ( not to fix a bug but to fix a graphical issue) , i had a snes for years , it never showed any black bars for me, neither did my voodoo 3 3000 on my previous pc

and dont claim i dont know how to use my pc, i am a certified IT engineer
also this isnt a bug report, your pretty insulting
ITS HARDWARE RELATED!

christ , i hate people that claim things without any backup, people like you have a room temprature IQ

It's not a "graphical issue" and it's not a bug. I just told you VERY SIMPLY it was normal graphical output that happens on the actual hardware. Why does it happen? I'm guessing because sf2 was a an arcade port, and chrono trigger - who the hell knows? It doesn't even matter. You didn't need an elaborate explanation as to WHY it happens to make the simple connection that normal graphical output has no "solution." You could obviously try to stretch your monitor to get rid of it, but this will just make everything look really tall. And as for the claim that you didn't have it on another graphic card or your real snes, that's just BS. There is no amount of overscan that will completely cover up bars these significant. Go ahead, fire up chrono trigger and see: it's there. The fact is you needed something to back up your claim, and you made the claim they weren't there when the fact is you just didn't remember.

So don't sit there and post "see, jeez you idiots that all I needed. What the hell is wrong with you guys" when you basically needed someone to spoon feed you a connection you should have easily made about something that was already said in addition to a bunch of technical spiel that wasn't really necessary.

sackofsnack · Post by **sackofsnack** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:57 pm

FitzRoy wrote:
sackofsnack wrote:
FitzRoy wrote:I'm confused. If you know it's not a bug, why are you asking for a solution? This does happen on the actual system, you know. You never played these games on an actual snes?

On a similar note, this forum is becoming littered with posts of false bug reports and other misc junk that really isn't related to zsnes talk. We should just make a new forum called "I can't use my computer........ (btw im dumb)"
i know its not a bug cause it happens with all snes emulators ( a graphical issue is not a bug) , i am asking for a solution to fix this ( not to fix a bug but to fix a graphical issue) , i had a snes for years , it never showed any black bars for me, neither did my voodoo 3 3000 on my previous pc

and dont claim i dont know how to use my pc, i am a certified IT engineer
also this isnt a bug report, your pretty insulting
ITS HARDWARE RELATED!

christ , i hate people that claim things without any backup, people like you have a room temprature IQ
It's not a "graphical issue" and it's not a bug. I just told you VERY SIMPLY it was normal graphical output that happens on the actual hardware. Why does it happen? I'm guessing because sf2 was a an arcade port, and chrono trigger - who the hell knows? It doesn't even matter. You didn't need an elaborate explanation as to WHY it happens to make the simple connection that normal graphical output has no "solution." You could obviously try to stretch your monitor to get rid of it, but this will just make everything look really tall. And as for the claim that you didn't have it on another graphic card or your real snes, that's just BS. There is no amount of overscan that will completely cover up bars these significant. Go ahead, fire up chrono trigger and see: it's there. The fact is you needed something to back up your claim, and you made the claim they weren't there when the fact is you just didn't remember.

So don't sit there and post "see, jeez you idiots that all I needed. What the hell is wrong with you guys" when you basically needed someone to spoon feed you a connection you should have easily made about something that was already said in addition to a bunch of technical spiel that wasn't really necessary.

well how many times do i need to say it , perhaps its because i had a pal system/pal tv combo

i never , that means NEVER , ok i repeat it , cause in the last post you somehow read over it , NEEEEVVVVEEEERRR!!!! had black bars with my old tv/snes combo or my old tv/old vid card combo

not with chrono trigger, not with street fighter, or any other damn game i ever owned on the snes , (like 50 ~ 60)

and are we talking about the same bars ? i dont mean the bars on top and on the bottom that you get with dvd movies , and even those i never saw on the snes , its just a single ugly bar in the screen, (NOT ON EVERY SCREEN) in chrono trigger the world map is full screen , just the towns arenth cause theres a black bar on the bottom , NOT THE TOP!

with street fighter its reversed

Noxious Ninja · Post by **Noxious Ninja** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:17 am

Your old TV probably had a different overscan than your current TV.

Post by **grinvader** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:26 am

I would also point that a computer-generated TV-out picture may be different when it comes to black borders, compared to a realsnes plugged into a tv.

ZSNES --(digital)--> Gfx card --[TV-out processing, prolly digital]--> TV
Real SNES --(full analog)--> TV

If there's no differences between the two, I'll gladly eat my pants.

sackofsnack · Post by **sackofsnack** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:43 am

well whatever it is , i know my monitor doesnt display it the way my snes did/does either
my monitor and tv however do display every other system correctly

i asked a plain polite question and didnt wish to get flamed by some social disabled person, now this has gotten such a mess, bah

i know there aint much of a solution to this , perhaps if i buy a radeon eventually ( wich i was planning anyway) it may look correct

connecting my snes to my new tv doesnt give any problems tho =\ , so maybe its just that gf4 ti4400 that doesnt know how to do a proper output for snes emulation , i only hoped to get the image the way it looked on my voodoo 3 3000 , cause that was just perfect ( only not for heavyer systems like n64 and psx , doh =) )

anyway again tnx for the responses

Joe Camacho · Post by **Joe Camacho** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:49 am

Oh... Looks like I didn't understand your question the first time I read it, sorry. Nightcrawler has recommended Nvtool (Or something like that, it's a shame I can't remember the proper name) That lets Nvidia users configure their tv-output to solve your "problem".

sackofsnack · Post by **sackofsnack** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:52 am

np, you gave a proper response without flaming, tnx for the hint, il look up into nvidia utils for tv out

Joe Camacho · Post by **Joe Camacho** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 5:06 pm

The program's name is tvtool:

http://tvtool.info/index_e.htm

It's late, but it's better than never.

funkyass · Post by **funkyass** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 9:35 pm

the image that all snes emulators display is one untouched by the hardware the snes uses to convert it into something the TV understands.

if you can, get a hold of a DVD with a THX optimizer, make sure your TV is setup correctly.

MorteTheSkull · Post by **MorteTheSkull** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 11:56 pm

Yay! Everyone stopped being mean to eachother!
On a serious note, that explains why the text boxes were sometimes cut off when I was playing Chrono Trigger on my basement TV, but not on the TV in my room. And Grinvader, I am going to devote my life towards somehow proving you wrong, just because I want to see you eat your pants.

sackofsnack · Post by **sackofsnack** » Sun Nov 14, 2004 2:02 pm

tnx for all the info guys

il try that tv tool, looks like it has some great features that the nvidia tool that comes with the drivers doesnt have

Post by **grinvader** » Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:28 pm

MorteTheSkull wrote:Yay! Everyone stopped being mean to eachother!
On a serious note, that explains why the text boxes were sometimes cut off when I was playing Chrono Trigger on my basement TV, but not on the TV in my room. And Grinvader, I am going to devote my life towards somehow proving you wrong, just because I want to see you eat your pants.

I should warn you I wear no pants.

Cheap, but it works :þ