Problem when pressing multiple keys on keyboard

[mahaju]

Hi
I use the keyboard for input when using the emulator
I have noticed that in Zsnes (or any other emulator for that matter, except Project 64 I think), whenever I have to press multiple buttons at the same time or multiple buttons quickly in succession, only the operation of the first 2 buttons pressed takes place and the other sometimes happens and sometimes doesn't. For eg, if I play Super Castlevania 4 and I try to whip to the bottom right while jumping, the keys do not respond properly sometimes (for eg, only the jump takes place, or jumps to the right, or jumps and whips to the right but not bottom right, etc)
Do I just need to practice a little more, or is it possible to make the keyboard more responsive?
Thanks in advance

[Gonzo]

It's a limitation with certain keyboards. They can't detect some keys being pressed together(usually when its three or more keys pressed together at the same time). You've got three solutions;

1) Get a new keyboard.

2) Buy a gamepad.

3) Experiment with remapping the keys on your keyboard until you work around the problem. I remember I had the same problem years ago when I used to play on a keyboard. I used to have the keys mapped from 'a' to 'h'. This caused me to have the problem you described. So I moved everything down a row, i.e, 'z' to 'n'. Fixed the problem.

Also the shift and ctrl keys don't have this problem so use those as your most used controls, i.e run or shoot, then that should help to solve the problem.

[Gil_Hamilton]

To expand on this, it's a limitation with MOST keyboards. If you want to ensure you dodge the issue, look at gaming keyboards. Specifically ones marketing N-key rollover. In theory, that means that you can mash every button on the keyboard at once and it'll work right. In practice, they don't always live up to the marketing promise, but at least they're PROMISING to not shit their pants the instant you press two non-modifier keys.

[mahaju]

Thanks for the replys
Unfortunately I don't have any idea about game pads and what to look for if I want to buy one
So I want to stick with the keyboard option
I think the first thing I will try is remapping the keys
So in your opinion it's better not to use all alphabet keys?
I usually use the arrow keys for d-pad, then things like q-w, a-s and z-x for the button pairs, enter for start and spacebar for select
Do you have some suggestions for how I should change the mapping? How about the group of buttons containing Ins to Page Down or the number pad?
Also, are laptop and USB keyboards more prone to this problem compared to PS2 ones?
And please don't mind, one last question
If keyboard type can effect this behaviour, would changing from Windows to linux help in any way? Is there any linux distribution tailored to remove this effect from emulators?
Thanks again

[Agozer]

Map the d-pad tothe number pad; that usually works well. Although, some laptops can have problems even with this setup.

As far as gamepads go, anything made by Logitech that more or less mimics the PlayStation controller is more than good enough. Well, my personal preference, others may chip in.

[adventure_of_link]

Yeah, as long as the controller looks like a PSone pad setup it's good.

(I would make an honorable mention for the XBox 1 -> USB conversion, but not only do I not know if they still make those pads, but you'd have to do some color-by-color cut and splicing.)

[Rashidi]

i would request the future zsnes 2.0 to have a key-test features.
to test wether assigned keys would work (or not) if pressed altogether.

as for now, i use Notepad to test if various key-press would work or not.
for example my keyboard would allow C+D+Q keys pressed altogether, but would fail on A+D+C keys

[Gonzo]

To expand on this, it's a limitation with MOST keyboards.

Yeah I wasn't sure of the percentages. I always sort of figured it was relatively uncommon thing considering how infrequently this question has been asked over the years.

Is there any linux distribution tailored to remove this effect from emulators?

Just to be clear, this isn't the emulators fault, it's your keyboard. If you want proof, try what Rashidi said and open notepad and try to press the same three keys in there, you'll see that you've got the same problem.

[grinvader]

i would request the future zsnes 2.0 to have a key-test features.
to test wether assigned keys would work (or not) if pressed altogether.

as for now, i use Notepad to test if various key-press would work or not.
for example my keyboard would allow C+D+Q keys pressed altogether, but would fail on A+D+C keys

That's hardware dependant (and is not reported by the device), so open up any program and check for yourself.

[Gil_Hamilton]

Thanks for the replys
Unfortunately I don't have any idea about game pads and what to look for if I want to buy one
So I want to stick with the keyboard option

If you're buying hardware just for emulation, you really ought to be looking at gamepads. It's better to buy hardware designed for playing games than hardware designed for text input.

Go to a computer store, see what feels good in your hands. That's the primary metric here.
You need one with enough buttons. That's almost impossible to NOT do these days.
If it's fixed-purpose, it should more or less match the SNES layout. Most do since the Playstations and XBox 360 use the same layout.
If you intend to use other emulators with it as well, I'd recommend a more Sega-esque layout, with two rows of 3 buttons instead of a 4-button diamond. The 3/3 controller handles 2/2 layouts well, but the opposite is not true.

D-pad precision is your major stumbling block. It's important, but hard to identify without actually playing a few games.


Personally, I use a Saitek P880(out of production, as is every device that used the same mold) and a Horipad EX2 intended for the XBox 360(360 pads work with no hassle in Windows XP, Vista, and 7).
Both devices are precise, comfortable in my hands, and offer enough inputs for most console emulation.
The Saitek required me to do weird things with my button layout at times(SNES select winds up in odd places, as does PS L2 and R2), but the Horipad "just works".

I think the first thing I will try is remapping the keys
So in your opinion it's better not to use all alphabet keys?
I usually use the arrow keys for d-pad, then things like q-w, a-s and z-x for the button pairs, enter for start and spacebar for select
Do you have some suggestions for how I should change the mapping? How about the group of buttons containing Ins to Page Down or the number pad?

It will depend on how your keyboard's wired up. In my experience, the arrows and button cluster above them are the WORST to use, as in an arrow can block most non-modifier keys all by itself. First thing I'd try is remapping your directionals from the arrow cluster to the num-pad on your existing keyboard. If that solves your problem, you aren't out any cash.

The only "safe" keys are modifiers. They're explicitly designed to be pressed alongside other keys, and are wired differently than the main keyboard.

Also, are laptop and USB keyboards more prone to this problem compared to PS2 ones?

Nope. They're all built using the same technology to interface the keyswitches to the keyboard controller, and it's that underlying technology that causes the problem. It's got nothing to do with the interface between the keyboard and the PC.
There are ways to fix it, but they greatly increase costs.

If keyboard type can effect this behaviour, would changing from Windows to linux help in any way? Is there any linux distribution tailored to remove this effect from emulators?
Thanks again

No. It's not a software issue. It's a hardware issue.
Your keyboard literally CANNOT SEE certain button combinations, so it cannot send them to the computer. It won't work in Linux, Windows, MS-DOS, DR-DOS, BeOS, AROS, QNX, or any other operating system you can find.

And really? You're considering changing operating systems and completely rebuilding your system to avoid keyboard ghosting, but spending a half-hour doing gamepad research is too hard?

[odditude]

dualshock3s work wonderfully in windows nowadays. ds2s are quite nice with a decent USB adapter (i just picked up two more at target for $10 each).

[mahaju]

Thanks everyone
This is what I did on my laptop computer
qw-as-zx for the buttons
okl; for up-left-down-right on dPad
it's working quite properly on Snes9x in Win 7
I will post updates when I am able to try it with other emulators and/or other computers and keyboards

[Noxious Ninja]

are laptop and USB keyboards more prone to this problem compared to PS2 ones?

No, but PS/2 keyboards are the only ones that support true n-key rollover. Limitations in the USB keyboard protocol mean that USB keyboards can only do 6-key rollover, so no matter how well the hardware is built, the PC will only see 6 keys at a time. The only USB keyboard I know of that can work around this is the Microsoft SideWinder X4. It's a pretty good keyboard IMO, and also pretty cheap for a gaming keyboard - $45-$55 depending on seller.

As for game pads, I would just go for an XBox 360 wired controller. Solid device, works fine on PCs, and is good for use with Games For Windows Live games which tend to assume that's what you'll have.

dualshock3s work wonderfully in windows nowadays

Do you have to use Motioninjoy? Or will Windows work with the DS3 out of the box nowadays?

[Gil_Hamilton]

The only USB keyboard I know of that can work around this is the Microsoft SideWinder X4.

Do you know how it gets around this? I mean, I ASSUME it still appears as a HID keyboard.

I have an X6 myself. Aside from the volume knob not working right in Windows 7(it tends to "stick" and just hammer up or down forever until you reboot), I've got no major complaints. Key travel could be a bit longer, I suppose, but it's hardly the worst-feeling board I've ever used.

As for game pads, I would just go for an XBox 360 wired controller. Solid device, works fine on PCs, and is good for use with Games For Windows Live games which tend to assume that's what you'll have.

Counterpoint: The worst d-pad ever seen this side of a Gravis product.



Totally unrelated, but interesting nonetheless: The PS3 will recognize standard USB HID game controllers and let you use them in games. Obviously, button layout is subject to some serious WTF, but... if you have a nice PC gamepad or joystick, you can use it on your PS3 in any game that allows control remapping.
(I have no idea on Bluetooth HID game controllers)

[Noxious Ninja]

Do you know how it gets around this? I mean, I ASSUME it still appears as a HID keyboard.

It seems to show up as both a "HID Keyboard Device" and a "Microsoft SideWinder X4 Keyboard (IntelliType Pro)". I'm guessing it has a special keyboard protocol, but still emulates a standard keyboard for compatibility reasons? I'm not sure.

Counterpoint: The worst d-pad ever seen this side of a Gravis product.

The Dual Shock 3's d-pad is better, but I'm afraid that's the only device to compare against I've had in a while.

Totally unrelated, but interesting nonetheless: The PS3 will recognize standard USB HID game controllers and let you use them in games. Obviously, button layout is subject to some serious WTF, but... if you have a nice PC gamepad or joystick, you can use it on your PS3 in any game that allows control remapping.

Huh. I would never have thought to try.

[Gil_Hamilton]

Do you know how it gets around this? I mean, I ASSUME it still appears as a HID keyboard.

It seems to show up as both a "HID Keyboard Device" and a "Microsoft SideWinder X4 Keyboard (IntelliType Pro)". I'm guessing it has a special keyboard protocol, but still emulates a standard keyboard for compatibility reasons? I'm not sure.

Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinteresting...

Totally unrelated, but interesting nonetheless: The PS3 will recognize standard USB HID game controllers and let you use them in games. Obviously, button layout is subject to some serious WTF, but... if you have a nice PC gamepad or joystick, you can use it on your PS3 in any game that allows control remapping.

Huh. I would never have thought to try.

I forget where I saw it, but I think it's safe to say MOST people haven't thought to try it, else it would be more well-known.

[odditude]

dualshock3s work wonderfully in windows nowadays

Do you have to use Motioninjoy? Or will Windows work with the DS3 out of the box nowadays?

you do; however, the drivers are signed now so no more stupdity under x64. i'm satisfied.

[Noxious Ninja]

Counterpoint: The worst d-pad ever seen this side of a Gravis product.

The Dual Shock 3's d-pad is better, but I'm afraid that's the only device to compare against I've had in a while.

OK, I forgot I had a Logitech Rumblepad 2 lying around. I only remembered it after getting into Super Meat Boy a couple of days ago and coming to hate the 360 controller's d-pad after a couple of hours. The Rumblepad is a lot better. I still need to try the DS3 with SMB, though.

[Agozer]

Counterpoint: The worst d-pad ever seen this side of a Gravis product.

The Dual Shock 3's d-pad is better, but I'm afraid that's the only device to compare against I've had in a while.

OK, I forgot I had a Logitech Rumblepad 2 lying around. I only remembered it after getting into Super Meat Boy a couple of days ago and coming to hate the 360 controller's d-pad after a couple of hours. The Rumblepad is a lot better. I still need to try the DS3 with SMB, though.

Seconding Logitech Rumblepad 2's d-pad. The best controller I've ever had. The DS3 is almost at the same level, but the L2/R2 buttons drop it down a notch.

[mahaju]

is that a spam bot??

[grinvader]

Don't waste your time posting about it, we clean stuff as we go. Report the post if you want, or just wait until one of the staff burninates them.

[Gil_Hamilton]

And if it's particularly hilarious, quote it for posterity. I know I do.