ZSNES is no longer in active development.

[Yuber]

Audio crackling in 9x happens to everyone afaik, and switching the plugin to XAudio2 pretty much solved it. I appreciate the suggestion, NN, but my setup works just fine for 9x as it is. I only brought audio cracking back up because john mentioned that I had posted about it before and I wanted people to know how I solved the problem. Even with the Directsound plugin, it's not really that bad, but I'm pretty picky about audio problems due to my sensitive hearing. If you look up "SNES9x audio crackling", you'll see that it's a common problem. Thankfully, it's easy to get rid of like 99% of it.

I dunno why you're all so concerned, because I've stated multiple times that switching to the XAudio2 plugin fixed most of the problem. Changing the input rate & disabling hi-res mode pretty much got rid of it completely. I have a shitty CPU AND GPU, but other than that, I don't think I have any driver issues because sound cracking is a VERY common issue with 9x, mostly because its default plugin is Directsound. I have no audio problems with other emus I use, and with my current settings(even with hi-res mode turned on), ZSNES cracks more than 9x now.

Try casting lightning2 in CT using ZSNES & you'll hear some serious crackling. The timing is completely off, because sometimes it sounds ALMOST correct while other times it sounds like a chimp screech. Same thing with the monster screams/roars. Sometimes they sound close to correct while other times they're incredibly off. If ZSNES' audio timing(dunno the technical terms) was a boxer trying to time a guy and counter punch, he'd get knocked out in the 1st round. 9x would time his opponent perfectly and land fast counter shots all night.

Yes, I just compared ZSNES & 9x to boxers; I'm a huge dork.

[grinvader]

The horse sandbag used by the boxers has been grinded into fine bone dust by now, as well.

[Thalon]

Just passing by for my usual annual visit to check if Zsnes is still alive or not
Also let me wish you a merry christmas and a happy new year.
BTW, is pagefault still active on the project? It's something like three years since his last post here: does anybody have news about him? Is he fine? I'm a bit worried about his prolonged absence...

[nintendo_nerd]

The horse sandbag used by the boxers has been grinded into fine bone dust by now, as well.

The hell kind of an analogy is that?

Just passing by for my usual annual visit to check if Zsnes is still alive or not
Also let me wish you a merry christmas and a happy new year.
BTW, is pagefault still active on the project? It's something like three years since his last post here: does anybody have news about him? Is he fine? I'm a bit worried about his prolonged absence...

Funny you should ask that; Zsnes' current state is, well, like most Facebook relationship statues, "it's complicated"

[Gil_Hamilton]

Are we still behind Duke Nukem for longest time in dev hell?

[nintendo_nerd]

Are we still behind Duke Nukem for longest time in dev hell?

I think it's pretty damn close to that either way

[Yuber]

Duke Nukem Forever actually existed(in a few forms) way before its eventual release, though That was a low blow, but in all seriousness, I wanna be proven wrong. You devs are apparently very busy irl and on top of that, I have no clue how often if it all you've all been working on ZSNES 1.52 or whatever you wanna call it. You've told me your vision is to completely, 100% rebuild ZSNES from the ground up. I have no clue how long it would hypothetically take to build a brand new SNES emu from scratch and have it be even better than 9x in terms of speed & accuracy. Yes higan is more accurate, but 9x is better because it's much, much faster. 9x is accurate enough to feel like a real SNES.

ZSNES is the older, alcoholic Larry Holmes while 9x is PRIME(before Buster Douglas) Mike Tyson. Larry Holmes used to be a great champion but when he faced Tyson, he was already WAY past his prime. You could also say ZSNES is the version of Muhammed Ali that fought a prime Larry Holmes. Holmes DESTROYED Ali because Ali was both past his prime AND suffering from Parkinson's already. ZSNES used to be the greatest SNES emu out there but 9x has had the belt for a while now.

[Gil_Hamilton]

So you're saying snes9x beats women?

[adventure_of_link]

I'll say this: I'm thankful I used most of the popular SNES emulators over the years (ZSNES, Snes9X, bsnes/higan, SnEeSe).. made my transition from ZSNES to Snes9X pleasant.

[joe_devore]

I tired Chrono Trigger in SNES9x.... it sounded different.... and not really better...
I had to switch to Xaudio2 on Windows XP Pro becuase of crackling so...
so after that I went back to ZSNES to continue like always ;^_^;

[nintendo_nerd]

I tired Chrono Trigger in SNES9x.... it sounded different.... and not really better...
I had to switch to Xaudio2 on Windows XP Pro becuase of crackling so...
so after that I went back to ZSNES to continue like always ;^_^;

Could you elaborate? I'm curious as to how it sounded different or rather, how it didn't sound better. You did try Snes9x 1.53 correct? You piqued my curiosity, maybe this will help. Just as an example, I recorded the cursor sound using Snes9x versus Zsnes from Chrono Trigger:

Snes9x uses highly accurate SPC700 (the sound chip) emulation, which is on part with the real deal
http://filetrip.net/dl?GPW9dagFRI

Zsnes however, is nowhere near close to real Snes sound
http://filetrip.net/dl?WFQ7khxs2C

Let me know what you think. You should be able to perceive a difference. Oh! For Snes9x in XP, DirectSound is the better API to use, Xaudio2 is for Vista/7/8, I should have clarified that, whoopsie! For the buffer length, typically 128 to 160 ms and the sampling frequency should be at around 31900 Hz The accurate emulation does take a bit of getting used to, but I can definitely help you go through the transition

[joe_devore]

I was playing the Chrono Trigger ~ Intro Sequence(pressing together the [L] & [R] buttons on the SNES pad)
had it running on both emus at the same time just [alt+tab]ing back and forth listening to the sounds...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqTZfknDVes


I could SWEAR... ZSNES sounds like the real one... because i still have my SNES OOHHH YEAH!!! ;;;^_^;;;
and my physical copy of Chrono Trigger ;^_^;....

but then there are the correct settings for SNES9x.... *_*

[nintendo_nerd]

I was playing the Chrono Trigger ~ Intro Sequence(pressing together the [L] & [R] buttons on the SNES pad)
had it running on both emus at the same time just [alt+tab]ing back and forth listening to the sounds...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqTZfknDVes


I could SWEAR... ZSNES sounds like the real one... because i still have my SNES OOHHH YEAH!!! ;;;^_^;;;
and my physical copy of Chrono Trigger ;^_^;....

but then there are the correct settings for SNES9x.... *_*

Hmm...need to do some more testing.. Ah, the game Clay Fighter, there's supposed to be voices at the intro were they're talking and playing instruments. On Snes9x, it's clear, but on Zsnes, it's broken and choppy.

[paulguy]

You can't really recommend an output frequency as being correct for anybody. It's going to be specific to their system and configuration. They'll just have to tweak it until it sounds correct for each computer.

[nintendo_nerd]

You can't really recommend an output frequency as being correct for anybody. It's going to be specific to their system and configuration. They'll just have to tweak it until it sounds correct for each computer.

Well, yeah, that's true

[Yuber]

Good point, paul. Switching to XAudio2, lowering the input rate, increasing the buffer length and disabling hi-res mode unless the game you're playing uses it are generally the best ways to remedy the problem. For all I know though, Directsound could work better for some people. The advice above is the closest thing to a "one size fits all" solution I can think of, but you're absolutely right. I keep the buffer length at 64ms, but I may increase it when I play games that use hi-res mode like SoM & SD3.(only games I play that use it off the top of my head)

Nerd: ZSNES' timing is way off so the difference is immediately obvious. There are major fluctuations in the cursor sound in ZSNES,(same goes for all of CT's sound) while 9x's cursor sound is both dead on AND consistent. I haven't compared my SNES and 9x side-by-side to listen for differences, but the fact I'd have to do that to even notice any discrepancies is a testament to how accurate 9x's sound emulation is.

So you're saying snes9x beats women?

There are questions regarding whether Tyson raped Desiree Washington because she apparently had a history of claiming rape, so I don't trust Tyson OR Washington's stories of what happened. I suspect Robin Givens' allegations of abuse as well because she seemed to be your stereotypical gold digger/attention whore, but Tyson WAS really fucked up emotionally at the time so both parties' allegations could've been true. Tyson being a rich, famous black athlete in a country with a VERY racist justice system makes the truth even more elusive. He only served 3 years for rape too which is very suspicious.(could've been bribe related though, dunno)

To answer your joke though, I'm only talking about Tyson INSIDE the ring during his prime.(pre-1990) Tyson was always famous for his ridiculous punching power, but his amazing hand speed helped set up that power. If you watch Tyson's fights from the 80s, it's amazing how fast he used to throw his combinations. He seemed to stop caring when he returned to boxing after being released, stopped throwing body shots & generally just relied on his power without nearly as much technique as before. Biting Evander Holyfield's ear(TWICE!) wasn't exactly a good game plan either. Holyfield capitalized on Tyson's apparent lack of heart/passion for boxing post-prison in both of their fights & picked him apart technically. Tyson picked poor Evander's ear apart.

IMO, Evander Holyfield is one of the most underrated champions of all time. He was the undisputed cruiserweight champ prior to bulking up(everyone was juiced back then, not just him) & becoming a heavyweight. He was a 3-time world HW champ(I don't count the WBF belt) and was incredibly fun to watch, namely his 3 fights with Riddick Bowe. He lost 2 out of those 3 fights, but he came back and kicked Tyson's ass twice, taking his title in their first fight.(the one without the ear biting ) He was the Arturo Gatti of the HW division, but His alleged PED abuse definitely hurts his legacy.

EDIT: Speaking of fights, here's a live stream of UFC 168: Silva VS Weidman 2, the biggest fight of the year. Catch it while you can! There should also be replay links 12-24 hours after the event.

EDIT2: Man, I REALLY hope Anderson Silva makes a full recovery after that AWFUL leg break. Anderson threw a kick, Weidman blocked it with his shin(muay thai style) and the bottom of Anderson's shin SNAPPED. May have been right between his shin & ankle, but either way it was one of the worst injuries I've ever seen from 20+ years of watching fights. Silva's 38(thought he was older) so it's incredibly unlikely he'll fight again, but I hope to God that he makes a full recovery so he can at least train young fighters using his massive wealth of martial arts knowledge. The women's bantamweight title fight stole the show, and it doesn't hurt that the champ is a hot, big assed blonde girl.

What makes Silva's injury even sadder is that he was literally the Sugar Ray Robinson of mixed martial arts, and it was awful to watch one of my favorite fighters get injured like that. He's like a Brazilian Bruce Lee.

[nintendo_nerd]

Good point, paul. Switching to XAudio2, lowering the input rate, increasing the buffer length and disabling hi-res mode unless the game you're playing uses it are generally the best ways to remedy the problem. For all I know though, Directsound could work better for some people. The advice above is the closest thing to a "one size fits all" solution I can think of, but you're absolutely right. I keep the buffer length at 64ms, but I may increase it when I play games that use hi-res mode like SoM & SD3.(only games I play that use it off the top of my head)

Nerd: ZSNES' timing is way off so the difference is immediately obvious. There are major fluctuations in the cursor sound in ZSNES,(same goes for all of CT's sound) while 9x's cursor sound is both dead on AND consistent. I haven't compared my SNES and 9x side-by-side to listen for differences, but the fact I'd have to do that to even notice any discrepancies is a testament to how accurate 9x's sound emulation is.

Good point, some games aren't so easily distinguishable, but others are blatantly obvious, one being Clay Fighter's intro sequence. The voices should be stutter-free, but on Zsnes, they crackle like hell and are hard to hear. Super Mario World is another offender with inaccuracies, like the shrink/grown sound, the warp-pipe, the spinning-jump, all are easily describable, I think

[Yuber]

The sound problems I tend to notice the most in ZSNES are timing issues, and I'm guessing the Cay Fighter(not my thing, haven't run it in ZSNES) issues are timing related too; dunno. I'm almost positive there are some games/sounds that are poorly emulated in ways not related to timing, but the ones you mentioned as well as the ones off the top of my head seem to be timing related. I say seem to because I don't understand the technical details of ZSNES' design.

[nintendo_nerd]

The sound problems I tend to notice the most in ZSNES are timing issues, and I'm guessing the Cay Fighter(not my thing, haven't run it in ZSNES) issues are timing related too; dunno. I'm almost positive there are some games/sounds that are poorly emulated in ways not related to timing, but the ones you mentioned as well as the ones off the top of my head seem to be timing related. I say seem to because I don't understand the technical details of ZSNES' design.

I know that it was written entirely is assembly, the good thing about that is it can run full speed on very low requirements, but you sacrifice a lot of accuracy for the sake of speed. Not to mention not a lot about the SPC700 was truly known for a long time, at least, until Blargg developed a cycle-accurate S-SMP emulator that passed all the tests. I could be wrong, but I believe this was first implemented into Bsnes, but Zsnes developers have been messing with it as well for quite a while. Then Snes9x implemented it as of 1.52, so far, only two Snes emulators have been released with Blargg's code. The audio isn't synchronized with the Snes CPU, hell, a lot of the Snes processors/co-processors aren't synced in Zsnes and have many inaccuracies that throw the timing off.

[grinvader]

until Blaarg developed
with Blaarg's code

Blargg. Like the super mario monster. ¬_¬

[nintendo_nerd]

until Blaarg developed
with Blaarg's code

Blargg. Like the super mario monster. ¬_¬

Whoops . Fixed

[Yuber]

I'm very thankful to Blargg for helping devs give their SNES emulators perfect or at least near-perfect sound. ZSNES has a huge speed advantage over 9x but if you can run SNES9x 1.53, I think you should use it.(or BSNES) 9x is the middle ground between the FAST ZSNES & slow ass but cycle-accurate BSNES/higan. I frankly don't care if an emulator is 100% cycle-accurate as long as games feel VERY close to how they ran on the original console. Perfect accuracy is always a plus, but it's gotta be fast enough to run on average or below average PCs to become "mainstream". My guess is that ZSNES is still so popular because it's so damn fast.

I use boxing analogies because timing is VERY important in fights. If you try and time a hard puncher's right hand(to counter) and you're even a fraction of a second off, your opponent's punch may land first and knock you out. I'm no fighter but it's obvious from being a fight fan for over 20 years. In the same vein, if the timing for certain sound effects is even slightly off, they'll often sound completely off. Nerd's CT cursor sound recording is a perfect example with all the severe fluctuations in its pitch & length.

I give ZSNES tons of shit when I compare it to the superior 9x, but for people with ancient computers it's an absolute godsend.

[nintendo_nerd]

I'm very thankful to Blargg for helping devs give their SNES emulators perfect or at least near-perfect sound. ZSNES has a huge speed advantage over 9x but if you can run SNES9x 1.53, I think you should use it.(or BSNES) 9x is the middle ground between the FAST ZSNES & slow ass but cycle-accurate BSNES/higan. I frankly don't care if an emulator is 100% cycle-accurate as long as games feel VERY close to how they ran on the original console. Perfect accuracy is always a plus, but it's gotta be fast enough to run on average or below average PCs to become "mainstream". My guess is that ZSNES is still so popular because it's so damn fast.

I use boxing analogies because timing is VERY important in fights. If you try and time a hard puncher's right hand(to counter) and you're even a fraction of a second off, your opponent's punch may land first and knock you out. I'm no fighter but it's obvious from being a fight fan for over 20 years. In the same vein, if the timing for certain sound effects is even slightly off, they'll often sound completely off. Nerd's CT cursor sound recording is a perfect example with all the severe fluctuations in its pitch & length.

I give ZSNES tons of shit when I compare it to the superior 9x, but for people with ancient computers it's an absolute godsend.

All I know is that programmers are crazy geniuses that figure out how the inner workings of hardware function and how they execute, etc. At one point, cycle-accurate audio emulation was a pipe dream, no one thought it was possible, but here we are, we now have two emulators that use near perfect sound (they certainly sound spot on to me to real hardware, I can't perceive any difference at all). People don't like to move from their comfort zone, and like you said, Zsnes is fast to due being coded in ASM, so the attachment rate is high. Perhaps when Zsnes 2.0 is released, people will still stick to 1.51 due to familiarity, much like IE 6 versus IE 10, more people stick to 6 because they're familiar with it despite 10 being a lot better than IE used to be (I like Chrome and Firefox better though)

The problem with the cursor (among other things) is the inconsistencies in the pitch fluctuations, they have to be steady and repeatable. Plus, I hope the guy that maintains Zophar.net changes the entry for Zsnes; something about that description bothers me.

[Yuber]

Yeah, familiarity probably is the main reason and I've used that argument myself as well. tbh it's probably both, but familiarity makes much more sense than speed being the dominant reason. Human nature and all that. I myself was hesitant to switch and only did so because ZSNES runs like shit on this computer; I wasn't really thinking when I made the speed argument.(although it's certainly a small factor) Familiarity was definitely what kept me clinging to ZSNES for so long, but I'm incredibly glad I was forced to switch because I probably wouldn't have otherwise.

Maybe zophar.net's compliment of ZSNES' audio is just very outdated? The site does at least recommend using 9x if BSNES is too slow for you. Before Blargg, was ZSNES' sound emulation the best available? I only ask because ZSNES, 9x and BSNES/higan are the only SNES emulators I've really tested. I think I tested SNEeSe a LONG time ago but I don't remember enough about it to have an opinion of it. IF ZSNES' sound emulation used to be the best pre-Blargg, that may be why zophar.net claims it has high quality audio. It sucks balls compared to BSNES or 9x's sound emulation, but it's not so bad that it's unusable either. We're both spoiled by 9x's amazingly accurate sound emulation; ZSNES used to be the king.

"Goner" from FF6 MAY sound a tiny bit different in 9x than on a real SNES, but I'd have to test 9x an my SNES side-by-side. My saves got erased on my FF6 cart while I was using Game Genie codes to revive Leo and just generally fuck around, so I can't test it right now. Using GG codes in games with battery backups is RISKY. I did get Leo in my party, but I don't remember which code(s) erased my saves. My FF6 cart is in bad enough shape that I need to replace it anyway. The Paladin Shield is a monstrous pain in the ass to get with the 255 battle requirement to uncurse it, but the rest of the game is easy.(including maxing everyone out in the dino forest + Esper stat customization)

[Realord]

it's been seven f***ing years since the last progress update (btw, progress update != asking for a new release)

surely you mean seven fucking days, lel
the only update you care about is "click here to download", anyway. would be a waste of time.

Oh, really? So... I have one question. Where the ZSnes versions greater than 1:51 were hidden?