What do you want from ZSNES?

[DEFIANT]

game fixes.

~DEFIANT

[Hexlord]

More games fixed..

Yeah I know.. more boring request of all..

[thegreatswami]

Game fixes would be great. I mean the main reason so many people use zsnes as apposed to other snes emulators is the fact that it is the fastest and that it is compatible with the most games. It seems like the more game fixes that are handled, the more it would fit the reputation of the system.

[Dmog]

I am pro-accuracy. I definitely support more game fixes.

For the most part, IMO, a new "feature" wouldn't be useful if I can't use it on a "broken" game I want to play.

If Zsnes doesn't allow for a timing rewrite..how can you improve on compatibility, other by means of using hacks (or "game fixes")? And hacks are, by definition, not accurate.



Anyway, at this point, I couldn't care less about more "features".

[Dmog]

Fix more games please.
PS: I'm suprised that Michael Flatley didn't come in here crying about the ZMV support yet.

There's one vote for more ZMV support though Free Cookie to whoever guess who voted for that.

[Agozer]

Fix more games please.
PS: I'm suprised that Michael Flatley didn't come in here crying about the ZMV support yet.

There's one vote for more ZMV support though Free Cookie to whoever guess who voted for that.

Do we even have to guess?

[grinvader]

If Zsnes doesn't allow for a timing rewrite..how can you improve on compatibility, other by means of using hacks (or "game fixes")? And hacks are, by definition, not accurate.

Cleaning code and fixing imperfections along the way is an excellent method to fix zsnes without knowing shit about 65c816 or SPC700.

Zsnes uses heaps of alignment tricks to clear/set memory faster. But if said alignments get broken somehow, it goes horrible very fast.
PF recently fixed some misaligned data.

[Hexlord]

Cleaning code and fixing imperfections along the way is an excellent method to fix zsnes without knowing shit about 65c816 or SPC700.

Zsnes uses heaps of alignment tricks to clear/set memory faster. But if said alignments get broken somehow, it goes horrible very fast.
PF recently fixed some misaligned data.

It sounds like a bit of an extra work, because games get broken as others get fixed..

[Dead]

Zsnes uses heaps of alignment tricks to clear/set memory faster.

Could you please elaborate on what an alignment trick might be?

Thanks.

[Kagerato]

It sounds like a bit of an extra work, because games get broken as others get fixed..

If the modification to the code is clean and accurate, there shouldn't be any new problems. That is, of course, assuming correcting one piece of code doesn't happen to reveal an entirely unknown bug somewhere else.

[Nach]

Cleaning code and fixing imperfections along the way is an excellent method to fix zsnes without knowing shit about 65c816 or SPC700.

Zsnes uses heaps of alignment tricks to clear/set memory faster. But if said alignments get broken somehow, it goes horrible very fast.
PF recently fixed some misaligned data.

It sounds like a bit of an extra work, because games get broken as others get fixed..

Zsnes uses heaps of alignment tricks to clear/set memory faster.

Could you please elaborate on what an alignment trick might be?

Thanks.

Not at all. Alignment is where you expect certain data in your program to be in memory in a certain way.

Example:
5MB buffer 1.
5MB buffer 2.

Now I need to clear it somewhere, so I cheat by clearing buffer1, but tell it to clear 10MB instead.
If the two buffers are right next to each other in memory, I did what I intended, otherwise I'm clearing the first buffer and who knows what else instead of buffer 2.

ZSNES was programmed to use a lot of speed up by expecting values to be aligned. If something isn't it's just not doing what we intended. That doesn't break and fix games at the same time, it only fixes.

[Dead]

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

[kieran_]

Feature wise, I think zsnes is perfect. MORE GAMES. fixed

[Player1]

I'm for game fixes as well. The only feature ZSnes is missing is like vsnes. Hope it something will be implemented in version 2.0. Just see topic http://board.zsnes.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2209.

[Nightcrawler]

I think it's quite obvious what should be worked on. Look at the massive amount of bugs we all went through the trouble to find and verify to add to that bug tracker awhile back. It may be a good idea we don't shove them under the carpet and forget about them and start knocking some of them down?

I don't want to see 'games' fixed. I want to see EMULATION fixed. ZSNES is an SNES emulator last time I looked.

I want to see 65c816 code written for ZSNES actually work on the SNES!

I want to see sprite priority bugs fixed.

I want to see VRAM writes ONLY allowed during vblank or forced blank.

I want to see improved SPC700 communication timings.

I want to see all the research that's been done in the dev forum lately to be put to good use!

Some of these bugs have been in ZSNES for years and years.

In closing.. I think it's obvious that features should take a back seat. ZSNES reminds me of a microsoft product lately with a 'Let's forget about the bugs and just make more features' attitude.

[Nach]

In closing.. I think it's obvious that features should take a back seat. ZSNES reminds me of a microsoft product lately with a 'Let's forget about the bugs and just make more features' attitude.

One problem is we have more able people to work on features than emulation bugs. We do fix feature bugs, in fact grinvader and I have a little project right now to fix a load of feature bugs by rewriting some highly used feature segments.

I do fix emulation bugs from time to time, like I polished of the C4 last week, but unforunetly not all of us are capable of doing much more than that.

[Dmog]

I think it's quite obvious what should be worked on. Look at the massive amount of bugs we all went through the trouble to find and verify to add to that bug tracker awhile back. It may be a good idea we don't shove them under the carpet and forget about them and start knocking some of them down?

I don't want to see 'games' fixed. I want to see EMULATION fixed. ZSNES is an SNES emulator last time I looked.

I want to see 65c816 code written for ZSNES actually work on the SNES!

I want to see sprite priority bugs fixed.

I want to see VRAM writes ONLY allowed during vblank or forced blank.

I want to see improved SPC700 communication timings.

I want to see all the research that's been done in the dev forum lately to be put to good use!

Some of these bugs have been in ZSNES for years and years.

In closing.. I think it's obvious that features should take a back seat. ZSNES reminds me of a microsoft product lately with a 'Let's forget about the bugs and just make more features' attitude.

Feel the same way, especially when you say

I don't want to see 'games' fixed. I want to see EMULATION fixed

But from what I gathered, Zsnes has probably reach a dead end as far as emulation accuracy goes. Not sure if it's caused by the fact that there's no one that have the skills or desire to make a massive rewrite of the core...or simply because rewritting the core timing engine is pretty much impossible without making a completely new emu.

What I see right now is that Zsnes is going in circles:
New version fixes game A but break game B and C... Game B and C used to work in wip2004x...Spend some time trying what caused the game to "break"...Now B and C work but A and D don't...and the cycle or rather the 'circle' goes on.
So basically, the devs are trying very hard to come up with a build of Zsnes that "fixes" games that used to work at one point or another in Zsnes history, while keeping the games that get "broke" to a minimum.

Problem with this, is that's it's not only extremely tedious, but it never answer the main issues anyway...



I found the whole: Game "fix"/"broken" fishy...It does make it sound like you have a "game-centric" emulator, has opposed to "hardware-centric" one to use someone else's words (Mkendora?)


In any cases, I hope the great reasearch done by anomie, byuusan and others are implemented in a emulator one day...even if it's not in zsnes.

[Gil_Hamilton]

I want to see emulation fixes.

Not so much because ZSNES isn't perfectly accurate to a real SNES, but because targeting specific games means that those of us with less-than-mainstream tastes tend to get the short end of the stick when a fix for a mainstream game breaks one we like that maybe 2 dozen people have heard of.


As an example, there's a recently posted Super Robot Wars 4 glitch. That was introduced quite some time back. 1.35, if I recall. Maybe 1.36. I believe I reported it at the time. It's been ignored totally since then.

If it was FF3 that got broken, it would've been fixed immediatly.

[AspiringSquire]

As an example, there's a recently posted Super Robot Wars 4 glitch. That was introduced quite some time back. 1.35, if I recall. Maybe 1.36. I believe I reported it at the time. It's been ignored totally since then.

You should realize, though, that the developers were not keeping track of every single bug at that point. They worked on the issues that were considered to be the most important things at the time and likely forgot about many bug reports simply because they didn't use a bug tracker, as they do now.

If it was FF3 that got broken, it would've been fixed immediatly.

Just like the sound effects in Super Mario games getting broken in 1.41 (jump sounded particularly bad), then fixed for 1.42 only days later... (along with the problem auto-patching was having, of course), but it was at least something that probably affected other games, too.

I see your point, though. Everything would benefit from general "emulation fixes." As pagefault said, fixing what doesn't work is probably the fastest route to improved accuracy.

[ipher]

As long as the games we are fixed are not done by hacks, i think by fixing games we come closer to true emulation. Remember, games are the ultimate test on whether we are emulating the system correctly. Nach and PF have been real good at not putting in a quick hack to fix games that are broken (Star Fox 2 comes to mind real quick), and as long as they continue on that route i think that we will get closer and closer to emulating it perfectly.

[Joe Camacho]

As an example, there's a recently posted Super Robot Wars 4 glitch. That was introduced quite some time back. 1.35, if I recall. Maybe 1.36. I believe I reported it at the time. It's been ignored totally since then.

If it was FF3 that got broken, it would've been fixed immediatly.

Just to note that even if it's not fixed by the next release, it doesn't mean it was ignore, there are a varied amount of bugs, some are easier to fix than others.

[Gil_Hamilton]

As an example, there's a recently posted Super Robot Wars 4 glitch. That was introduced quite some time back. 1.35, if I recall. Maybe 1.36. I believe I reported it at the time. It's been ignored totally since then.

If it was FF3 that got broken, it would've been fixed immediatly.

Just to note that even if it's not fixed by the next release, it doesn't mean it was ignore, there are a varied amount of bugs, some are easier to fix than others.

But if a change fixes one really popular game and breaks 5 less popular ones, it will likely stay. but if it fixes 5 less-popular ones and breaks one really popular one, it will be rolled back.

Or I'm being cynical.

[Joe Camacho]

As an example, there's a recently posted Super Robot Wars 4 glitch. That was introduced quite some time back. 1.35, if I recall. Maybe 1.36. I believe I reported it at the time. It's been ignored totally since then.

If it was FF3 that got broken, it would've been fixed immediatly.

Just to note that even if it's not fixed by the next release, it doesn't mean it was ignore, there are a varied amount of bugs, some are easier to fix than others.

But if a change fixes one really popular game and breaks 5 less popular ones, it will likely stay. but if it fixes 5 less-popular ones and breaks one really popular one, it will be rolled back.

Or I'm being cynical.

Just look for "Squaresoft's soundrape" to give an idea of what I'm talking about, it happens to popular games and it still hasn't been repaired because it's not easy.

[FitzRoy]

Game bugs! And after that, if it is possible, definitely look into the spc sound rape thing. It's not just square, it's a ton of games and effects. Star Fox is the most annoying because the arwing engine sound that continually drones the whole game is done with spc rape, so it crackles through the whole game.

[Gil_Hamilton]

As an example, there's a recently posted Super Robot Wars 4 glitch. That was introduced quite some time back. 1.35, if I recall. Maybe 1.36. I believe I reported it at the time. It's been ignored totally since then.

If it was FF3 that got broken, it would've been fixed immediatly.

Just to note that even if it's not fixed by the next release, it doesn't mean it was ignore, there are a varied amount of bugs, some are easier to fix than others.

But if a change fixes one really popular game and breaks 5 less popular ones, it will likely stay. but if it fixes 5 less-popular ones and breaks one really popular one, it will be rolled back.

Or I'm being cynical.

Just look for "Squaresoft's soundrape" to give an idea of what I'm talking about, it happens to popular games and it still hasn't been repaired because it's not easy.

I know about that. Believe me.
I'm honestly surprised noise sim was never added back in after it was removed.