Translated SO on original hardware

Post by **grinvader** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 5:39 pm

Arsenic Toast wrote:Okay, I don't have a lot of time, so bear with me, but I was wanting to know if there's a way to simply transfer the translated SO ROM to the original SO cart, seeing as how the cart already has the chip in it and doesn't require a load of space for decompressed graphics data, and all I'm doing is changing the text around, is it possible? If so, please explain how, it would be really awesome. Thanks!

I guess you'd have to remove the romchip and replace it with your own programmed eeprom. I hope you're good with a soldering iron.

Nightcrawler · Post by **Nightcrawler** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:46 pm

Right. I don't think you can buy an EPROM pin for pin compatible with he one on the cartridge anymore, so you'll also have to do a little rewiring possibly.

Arsenic Toast · Post by **Arsenic Toast** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 8:41 pm

But... why would I need to do any soldering? I don't think I'd be uploading all the decompressed data, wouldn't I just have to use the translation patch on the raw rom and upload that?

I know it seems silly to ask if I can do something and then question the answer you give me, but I guess I'm wondering if anyone has actually done this before, and if it wouldn't be too much trouble, if you guys could elaborate a tad on why I'd need to solder a whole new chip to the original cart.

Noxious Ninja · Post by **Noxious Ninja** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:28 pm

Arsenic Toast wrote:But... why would I need to do any soldering? I don't think I'd be uploading all the decompressed data, wouldn't I just have to use the translation patch on the raw rom and upload that?

I know it seems silly to ask if I can do something and then question the answer you give me, but I guess I'm wondering if anyone has actually done this before, and if it wouldn't be too much trouble, if you guys could elaborate a tad on why I'd need to solder a whole new chip to the original cart.

A ROM chip is, well, read-only. That's what ROM means: Read-Only Memory. Technically, a game file used for ZSNES is a ROM image - a copy of the data on the ROM chip(s).

To put new data on the cart, you would have to replace the ROM chips with programmable chips which you would write the modified ROM image to.

Arsenic Toast · Post by **Arsenic Toast** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 4:57 am

Ah, okay....

So, is there any way to play a translated Star Ocean on original hardware without screwing around with my Star Ocean cart or spending 120 dollars?

kevman · Post by **kevman** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:15 am

Arsenic Toast wrote:Ah, okay....

So, is there any way to play a translated Star Ocean on original hardware without screwing around with my Star Ocean cart or spending 120 dollars?

Nope. Unless you can find the copier for less than that.

Post by **Nach** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:10 pm

Not just any copier, a GD7.

Post by **grinvader** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 2:31 pm

Nach wrote:Not just any copier, a GD7.

And not just any GD7, a 96MB+ GD7.

Post by **Nach** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 4:06 pm

grinvader wrote:
Nach wrote:Not just any copier, a GD7.
And not just any GD7, a 96MB+ GD7.

And not just any Star Ocean patched on a 96MB+ GD7, but Neviksti's Star Ocean patched.

talesrom · Post by **talesrom** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 1:55 pm

Nightcrawler wrote:Right. I don't think you can buy an EPROM pin for pin compatible with he one on the cartridge anymore, so you'll also have to do a little rewiring possibly.

some types of EPROMS are pin compatible with SO MASK ROM,
for example: 27C320 44pin 32megabit/4MB SIOC EPROM is pin compatible with 44pin STAR OCEAN MASK ROM.

27C320 - 44pin SOIC 32Megabit:
http://nintendoallstars.w.interia.pl/romlab/m27c320.gif

SO ROM - 44pin SOIC 32Megabit:
http://nintendoallstars.w.interia.pl/romlab/so4044.gif

oryginal SO cart have two mask ROM chips,
if you want put translated SO to cart you need:
- original SO japanease cart
- 1x 27C320 4MB eprom
- 1x 27C160 2MB eprom (or 27c320 also)

remove (desolder) old mask roms from SO cart, program EPROMS with translated SO ROM and solder EPROMS to cart.

only problem is buy this rare 27C320 eproms in SOIC package (TSOP wersion is more common.

also its posiible to make normal cart with 12x 27C080/801 eproms and program with SO unpacked 96megabit ROM (SF7 version)

or use only one StrataFLASH 64megabit (common chip!)
like 28F640 memory
http://nintendoallstars.w.interia.pl/romlab/28f640t.png
there are two verions 3V and 5V.

other info:
http://nintendoallstars.w.interia.pl/romlab/romlab.htm

Carnivol · Post by **Carnivol** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:38 pm

Okay, even though it's half a year since this thread stopped....

I'm quite amazed, 'cause this is the first time I've seen a thread been ressurrected with something usefull.

Anyway, I was thinking about evt. having a Star Ocean cart made by just resoldering/rewiring the main rom/whatever chip on a newly bought SO cart (got one already, but I don't wanna kill the only cart I've got)

Though, I'd propably have someone else do that for me, as I'm not "that" technical and I suck at soldering (propably 'cause I have one of those soldering irons that fits into the cathegory of welding iron and not soldering pen)

kevman · Post by **kevman** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 3:36 pm

Eprom programmers can be very expensive, though. Even on Ebay, you're looking at $50+

You'd need a buddy with one to make it economically feasible.

Carnivol · Post by **Carnivol** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 3:49 pm

$50 for a eeprom programmer, not expensive at all in my eyes, I mean, if it'd cost like $250 or something, then I would've started seriously doubting about getting one...

Maybe I should get one, I mean... it's easier for me to learn stuff when I'm like doing it, than just reading about it

talesrom · Post by **talesrom** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 4:48 pm

great programmer: www.willem.org (make willem will cost about 20$ if you want buy - about 30-40$)

many eprom burners can be buy for 10$ - 30$

kevman · Post by **kevman** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:49 pm

Carnivol wrote:$50 for a eeprom programmer, not expensive at all in my eyes, I mean, if it'd cost like $250 or something, then I would've started seriously doubting about getting one...

Maybe I should get one, I mean... it's easier for me to learn stuff when I'm like doing it, than just reading about it

Most good ones are more than $250 new.

The cheaper ones won't program all the many different types. You'll have to check carefully to see if the progammer supports the chip you want to program.

And I'm not sure if just setting the chip outside in the sun is enough to erase them or not. You may need to buy a special lamp.

rioninja · Post by **rioninja** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:04 am

Just wanted to add some useful info here:

I do a lot of rom programing for Honda ecus, and i personally use an inexpensive bugzapper (available at Home Depot, Lowes, etc for around $20). Its not as powerful as a commercial eprom eraser, which will erase a rom in a few hours or less. The bugzapper usually takes 5-8 hours for a 256kb eprom. I lay a few eproms on the tube, and plug it in overnight.

kevman · Post by **kevman** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:20 am

please let dead threads die unless they you having something really important.

(not locked, in case anyone wants to talk about this in the future again. Please leave alone)

Spoony · Post by **Spoony** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 4:45 am

I'd say that was fairly important information that contributed to the thread.

pcman · Post by **pcman** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 4:27 am

I was looking for an eprom programmer on Ebay and found some for as low as $36 with everything included (software, cable, ac adapter, eproms). http://stores.ebay.com/Timpark-Electronics. That is a pretty good price and the shipping was only $10. Eproms are also relatively cheap. Just be sure to buy new eproms that have not been written on. Hope this helps.

The Dumper · Post by **The Dumper** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:39 am

talesrom wrote:
Nightcrawler wrote:Right. I don't think you can buy an EPROM pin for pin compatible with he one on the cartridge anymore, so you'll also have to do a little rewiring possibly.
some types of EPROMS are pin compatible with SO MASK ROM,
for example: 27C320 44pin 32megabit/4MB SIOC EPROM is pin compatible with 44pin STAR OCEAN MASK ROM.

27C320 - 44pin SOIC 32Megabit:
http://nintendoallstars.w.interia.pl/romlab/m27c320.gif

SO ROM - 44pin SOIC 32Megabit:
http://nintendoallstars.w.interia.pl/romlab/so4044.gif

If you find any let me know. I don't think they are available.

talesrom wrote:oryginal SO cart have two mask ROM chips,
if you want put translated SO to cart you need:
- original SO japanease cart
- 1x 27C320 4MB eprom
- 1x 27C160 2MB eprom (or 27c320 also)

I have a couple of 16Mbit Flashes that are basically pin compatible with 2MB part (OK, 1 pin difference), but the 32Mbit pin compatible I never was able to procure. I asked Dark Force if he could do the patch in only the 16Mbit ROM. I don't think it worked out that way unfortunately.

talesrom wrote:also its posiible to make normal cart with 12x 27C080/801 eproms and program with SO unpacked 96megabit ROM (SF7 version)

I doubt it. Have you tried? I believe Neviksti's 96Mb version relies on the bank switching hardware in the SF7 to make it fit the 64Mb footprint of the SNES. I think you'd have to have some bankswitching hardware that functions like the SF7 or use some other bank switching hardware and modify Neviksti's patch.

talesrom wrote:or use only one StrataFLASH 64megabit (common chip!)
like 28F640 memory
http://nintendoallstars.w.interia.pl/romlab/28f640t.png
there are two verions 3V and 5V.

I'm not sure if the access time on the 5V version is fast enough. I see a 150ns access time. Maybe there's a faster one?

I'd like to attempt a HW translation cart one day. I think it's gonna be hairy. Maybe d4s is the only one brave enough to face down the huge number of small pins and wires involved.

zipper · Post by **zipper** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 10:06 pm

Firstly, it's amazing what's been done and discussed previously in this thread - and by Dejap.

I've been thinking..

I should imagine that an awful lot of the 96megabits that make up SO is in the speech. Does anyone have a rough idea what %age of the rom is taken up by speech and audio in total?

What are the chances of pulling the speech and any other audio out in order to 1/2 the size of the rom to 48megabits (i.e. fit on flashcart)?

Has anyone tried reducing rom sizes by removing elements of a game before?

Obviously, this isn't a great solution (taking stuff away from a brilliant game) - i don't even know if it's technically possible - that's why I thought I'd ask if anyone's considered it.

Nightcrawler · Post by **Nightcrawler** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 1:33 pm

No.. the majority of the data that makes the Star Ocean ROM so big is GRAPHICS. The SDD-1 is primarily used for decompressing graphics on the original cartridge.

Furthermore, let's take your scenario. Say it WAS voices. You can't just take them out. Everything is at a certain address. So, if there was any non voice material toward the end of the ROM, it would stay there. You'd have to recode all the addresses in the game that access data beyond the region you're eliminating. Definitely not easy and very tedious.

But the big data consumer is the graphics and well.. you can't even THINK about taking them out.

sessions · Post by **sessions** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:52 pm

http://www.neoflash.com/forum/index.php ... 94.15.html

A new chance for playing this game on the SNES.

ZSNES board

Translated SO on original hardware

Cheap Ebay Eprom Programmers