Tales of Phantasia question

[TalesFan]

Hi. I noticed on the 11-27-03 update that updates were still being made on the Tales of Phantasia patch, which I took to mean that eventually a new patch might be released. I've been waiting since that update for this new patch; however, when I heard that DeJap was pretty much dead, I just about gave up hope, as you can probably imagine. Anyway, today, while I was on the ToP board on GameFAQs, I read yet another annoying post by someone who wanted to know about the accuracy of the translation in regards to the infamous "boat scene."

That compelled me to come here and ask if in fact there is any hope for waiting for a future new release of the ToP patch, complete with references to Derris-Kharlan, calling the world tree by the name Yggdrassil, and accurate characterization.

On this post, it is stated that

tales of phantasia stays with dejap always.. it's our claim to fame.

Since you state ToP is your claim to fame and that it will stay with you always, I sincerely hope that releasing a more accurate patch is not out of the question. I've waited a year and a half, and I can continue waiting if need be, but I just want to know if I am waiting for nothing.

[Tallgeese]

...No offense, but I seriously doubt anyone (who matters) cares about such nitpicky issues.

Be happy it was fan-translated as well as it was for the love of God.

[Agozer]

The current patch is final, unless DF really finds a bug that severely hinders gameplay; but that is very unlikely to happen.

[Joe Camacho]

Well, if you want "accurate" characterization and all that there is always the "translate it yourself" or "learn japanese" options.

As Agozer said, as long as they don't find game breaking bugs or a large portion of untranslated text hidden in the depths of the game, I doubt a new version will be released.

If you don't know japanese... As Metatron said, be happy you can play the game, at all.

[Carnivol]

Like... also... if you're aware of this little "freedom" they've taken themselves in the script...


Why do you want another patch that fixes this issue?

It's not like it affects gameplay, not like it affects anything at all actualy...
And also, do you feel like the world has a "right to know" what was originally there?



As a sidenote to this, if you're so nitpicky about the little details and such, I suggest that you (like everyone else that've played ToP SFC and anyone that evt. will) just be thankfull for the countless hours they spent on the project.

And also... look forward to the translation of the PSX version, which is aiming for an accurate translation, OF THE PSX VERSION'S NEW AND REWRITTEN SCRIPT.

The PSX version is in my opinion a much better game in every possible way.
(don't get me wrong, the original is great too, as great as they get, but well, there's just something about the improved battlesystem in the PSX version + the upgraded visuals and music)

[Cidolfas]

The scene is pretty much exactly that way in the original, from what Tomato said. The question is more about sensibilities than accuracy - that kind of scene isn't as shocking in Japan as it is in America. Which is an interesting conondrum about whether the translation should have taken this into account even if it'd mean degrading its accuracy.

[Tomato]

No, I've never played that far into either versions of the game, but what I had been told was the text for that scene was translated as per the text in the PSX version. I guess it was a little more risque in the updated version or something. I'm not really sure on the details other than what I was told :/

[Louis Cypher]

I've probably got a ToP sram (from the dejap patch) somewhere around here that's about that far, if someone would like to take a look at it. We could put this issue to rest once and for all.

[Cidolfas]

I have an alternate translation from Disnesquick's version (which never got off the ground). Here's the line from there:

<KLARTH>:
<MINT> is neat and calm, which is nice, but it'd be hard to get rid of <ARCHE>.

I'm not sure if our own translator sanitized it, or if DeJap made it more risque.

[Louis Cypher]

I was more thinking of the drunken dream, heh.

[Cidolfas]

Heh, looks like that one's pretty much the same. ^^;

<ARCHE>:
Wooo-oooh!
<END>


<TEXT: 40>
Stop it, <CLESS>--
don't touch me there...<END>


<TEXT: 41>
Meyer:
My real objective is to sell secret information about Alvanista via an acquaintance in the Adventurers' Guild.
<KLARTH>:
Information?
Meyer:
Yeah. See, Alvanista looks peaceful at first glance, but in reality it's almost entirely under Dhaos's control.
<KLARTH>:
What!? Why?
Meyer:
This is important: Alvanista's prime heir, Prince Rayard, is becoming a
puppet of Dhaos's henchmen. That's why Midgarz won't fight Dhaos, even though it's really for the good of the country.
<END>


<TEXT: 42>
<KLARTH>:
Now that's a surprise...
<END>


<TEXT: 43>
<ARCHE>:
Yeee-heee!!
<END>


<TEXT: 44>
I said STOP IT, <CLESS>...<END>


<TEXT: 45>
Meyer:
A-anyway, please, please keep this a secret.
Now, how about we start winding this up?
<KLARTH>:
Yeah, let's.<END>


<TEXT: 46>
<KLARTH>:
You'll catch a cold if you sleep in a place like that, <ARCHE>.
<ARCHE>:
Mean ol' <CLESS>...
<KLARTH>:
(What kind of dreams is she having ......??)<END>

[Shinrin]

that seems more accurate than "Sex Dream". Course the Japanese did have diffrent views on that stuff than we do. So Dejap's proably made the "Sex Dream" to arouse american guys, (and possibly girls)

[Cidolfas]

Um... it's actually pretty similar to what DeJap wrote, just a tad bit less explicit, and that might be because the translator was a professional, not a free spirit.

[Tallgeese]

I think most of us have concluded by now that Shinrin is in the same boat as Sky Render. You know how difficult it is to argue with those types.

[Shinrin]

Um... it's actually pretty similar to what DeJap wrote, just a tad bit less explicit, and that might be because the translator was a professional, not a free spirit.

basicly dejap spice things up.. yes it's similar in a way but then again, as you said, less explicit. (which i do like less explicit) the two versions could mean a diffrence in a T and M rating in ToP if the game came out in english market. (them again i think namco would proably the less explicit to target more players that way)

I think most of us have concluded by now that Shinrin is in the same boat as Sky Render. You know how difficult it is to argue with those types.

i really don't like to get into fights about things such as this. Even though i like the FF6-retrans i can tell improvement between it and the DQ3 translation he's working on. (you should have seen earlyer version of the ff6-retranslation before he moved to rpgone. they we're worse than what we got released today. hehe, at least he's trying to making a game enjoyable in english now and take the step to do the same in CT and the next version of FF6) So things are looking up.

I'm not wanting to try and upset anyone. but some things are my views and my views alone. sorry if i did upset ya. just my view on things.

[blackmyst]

If you know anything about japanese culture you'll know that when a girl says "no, don't" it has much, much more of a sexual tone than westerners would ascribe to it. So unless you're completely wapanese, Dejap's translation is more accurate than what Cidolfas quoted in terms of the original meaning.

A lot of these retranslations just feel like Engrish to me. I'm reading some strange sentence which, while gramatically correct, just sounds awkward and has me struggling to really understand and feel what was originally meant to be conveyed, if I'm able to understand it at all and not just shrug it off and move on.

But like I said, if you're wapanese (i.e. you think you're japanese and have adapted the emotional character of a japanese), then you won't have any trouble not getting confused by those subtle nuances which only someone from japan would understand.

And that brings up the point once more: why not just play the original version? You're so deeply entwined with the japanese mindset, and you want literal translations of japanese sentences, yet you can't be arsed to learn the language?

Are translators just catering to these lazy types? Or maybe they just don't understand that many people still retain a western upbringing? Or maybe they do, and they have some fascination with forcing Engrish onto people and then feel superior while laughing at their confusion? Maybe they want to keep all the info within their elite little group of wapanese, and they simply don't want "normal" people to be able to understand the stories?

Which is it?

[Carnivol]

he's trying to making a game enjoyable in english now and take the step to do the same in CT and the next version of FF6

Not that I got anything against what he does, but... weren't these games fully enjoyable in English already?

Last time I checked, I enjoyed FF6 and CT when I was like 12 or 13.

A lot of these retranslations just feel like Engrish to me. I'm reading some strange sentence which, while gramatically correct, just sounds awkward and has me struggling to really understand and feel what was originally meant to be conveyed, if I'm able to understand it at all and not just shrug it off and move on.

Stuff like this happens when no one pays a person a shitload of money to translate something, and then pay a tester team an inzane amount of money an hour to sit on their ass and play the game through over and over again and make text changes on the road and compare with original text and evt. ask for retranslations and such.

[grinvader]

why not just play the original version? You're so deeply entwined with the japanese mindset, and you want literal translations of japanese sentences, yet you can't be arsed to learn the language?

SUPERIOR RETORT WINNER

if you want japanese, eat it
in the face

don't whine that the fanmade english patch that allowed you to understand all the great stuff you would *never* have found by yourself isn't japanese enough for your anal tastes

this comes from someone who likes japanese names, references and overall culture
(enough to learn a decent load of it)


lack of punctuation for better impact

[Carnivol]

I must hereby kindly ask for blackmyst to forgive me, 'cause I missed those two lines in his post...

That is so correct.


Take me, my own japanese skills are limited... so I almost go bananas everytime I see a translation project or an English localized release getting announced for some title I'm playing. Lovely, finaly I can understand most of what's written there, and it's not like they'd make a localization that makes the game unplayable.
(Find item X! *hunts for item X and comes back with item Y instead* Thanks for bringing me Item Z!)

Sure, I often get aware of changes, but damn... so what... as I obviously cared to dig out that info, I'm already aware of it anyway, so why should I care about if the game has some other stuff there?
most people don't care anyway, and those we really care should just go for the Japanese, since they obviously know the game inside out and can still play through it without knowing a single word Japanese.

[Cidolfas]

DeJap's translation of that scene wouldn't give ToP an M rating. FF7 had more swearing and more mature themes and still rated a T. Maybe that *and* the boat scene together might be pushing it, though.

[Carnivol]

Snes/Nintendo in general was stricter with stuff like that, than what Sony was with the PSX.


So I dunno actually...

How was it with the rating system in the US back then anyway?
I'm still, to this date, confused about how the heck US ratings work...
(must be because I'm from the place with just "recommended" age rating, and no direct laws for it)

[snkcube]

Snes/Nintendo in general was stricter with stuff like that, than what Sony was with the PSX.


So I dunno actually...

How was it with the rating system in the US back then anyway?
I'm still, to this date, confused about how the heck US ratings work...
(must be because I'm from the place with just "recommended" age rating, and no direct laws for it)

http://www.esrb.com/

[adventure_of_link]

DeJap's translation of that scene wouldn't give ToP an M rating. FF7 had more swearing and more mature themes and still rated a T. Maybe that *and* the boat scene together might be pushing it, though.

Not to mention if Jack Thompson gets hold of this game, he'd push for an "AO" rating to t3h maxxxx for ToP.

[Cidolfas]

Jack Thompson has major emotional problems. The stories circulating around about him are absolutely shocking.
I'm just waiting for the makers of The Sims to sue him for defamation.

[Solo_Talent]

If you fucked up your ToP savegame with using the inventory cheats wrong and you get the errors that result because of this... is there a way of fixing this ?? And are the codes different if you have different translations ?? Didnt want to make a new thread for that and this one had the best topic