Nestopia 1.39

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Spike
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Post by Spike »

I would love to see a good NES emulator for *NIX systems. Currently the crop of emulators that exist either wont compile on newer systems, lack any proper filter and gui, and unnecessarily chew up 100% of cpu time while you play them. ZSNES is a luxury when it comes to SNES for *NIX. An NES emulator with the same quality for *NIX would be a godsend.
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Post by Jipcy »

Spike wrote:I would love to see a good NES emulator for *NIX systems. Currently the crop of emulators that exist either wont compile on newer systems, lack any proper filter and gui, and unnecessarily chew up 100% of cpu time while you play them. ZSNES is a luxury when it comes to SNES for *NIX. An NES emulator with the same quality for *NIX would be a godsend.
Nestopia IS open-source. Perhaps you can contact and work with Marty to get a Unix port going.
Nestopia Home Page wrote:Feb 16 2006

Version 1.27 is out. Here are the changes:

Windows Additions:

* Any input key may now be mapped to a joystick.
* Alternative set of icons provided by Pongbashi.

Windows Changes:

* Auto-monitor-frequency setting is now applied after exiting the dialog.

Windows Fixes:

* Grayed Power-off menu item.
* Controllers in netplay.

Emulator Additions:

* Mapper 102 (SUNSOFT-3R) for "Shanghai (redump)".
* RP2C03B/RC2C05-03 palette. Info from Kevtris.
* Color decoder control via R-Y/G-Y/B-Y angle+gain. Comes with three presets.
* Support for NSF files that use more than one external soundchip.

Emulator Changes:

* More accurate NES chroma/luma coefficients. Info from Blargg.

Emulator Fixes:

* Mapper 83. Fixes intro in "World Heroes 2".
* Mapper 185. Patch for "Seicross (redump)".
* APU triangle step-sequencer reset bug.
* Some NSF player bugs.
* Some database entries.
[url=http://zsnes-docs.sf.net]Official ZSNES Docs[/url] | [url=http://zsnes-docs.sf.net/nsrt]NSRT Guide[/url] | [url=http://endoftransmission.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=394]Using a Wiimote w/ emulators[/url]
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Post by snkcube »

Nice release. I'll check it out soon.
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Dmog
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Post by Dmog »

I posted this on the Nestopia sourceforge forum:
First off thanks for creating this incredible emulator. It's completely above all the other N.e.s emus in my (not-so) humble opinion.

The problem I've experience is as follow: When I have Vsync enabled it seem to create a small lag in terms of input responsiveness (using a gamepad). This lag is not more than 1 frame max (or approxi 0.016 sec)

When Vsync is turned off, I do not experience any kind of input lag whatsoever.Perfect responsiveness, but obviously I experience the annoying screen "tearing" then, which I hate.

I tried the TripleBuffering option instead, but it doesn't seem to do anything for me...(Still experience tearing when it's enabled)



Only this issue prevents this emulator from reaching perfection imo.
Although "perfection" is relative I guess

Does anyone here noticed this? (Although, not everyone will be able to notice a 1 frame input lag)
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Post by franpa »

does nestopia support trog? american/australian versions.
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Post by Jipcy »

I don't know. Have you tried it yourself yet?
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Post by franpa »

no i havnt... ive never used nestopia but if it supports trog then ill definatly try it. i use other nintendo emulator known as virtuacnes. (virtuanes)
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Post by Jipcy »

Yes, Trog works. How about you try doing things yourself before you ask other people to do your work for you?
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Post by franpa »

sorry... i am currently at a place that only has 28.8kbps and thus didnt have the time to download the emulator.
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Deathlike2
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Post by Deathlike2 »

I don't recall any SNES emulator that was any bigger than a MB... let alone an NES emulator...
Continuing [url=http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?board=13.0]FF4[/url] Research...
blackmyst
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Post by blackmyst »

Dmog wrote:I posted this on the Nestopia sourceforge forum:
First off thanks for creating this incredible emulator. It's completely above all the other N.e.s emus in my (not-so) humble opinion.

The problem I've experience is as follow: When I have Vsync enabled it seem to create a small lag in terms of input responsiveness (using a gamepad). This lag is not more than 1 frame max (or approxi 0.016 sec)

When Vsync is turned off, I do not experience any kind of input lag whatsoever.Perfect responsiveness, but obviously I experience the annoying screen "tearing" then, which I hate.

I tried the TripleBuffering option instead, but it doesn't seem to do anything for me...(Still experience tearing when it's enabled)



Only this issue prevents this emulator from reaching perfection imo.
Although "perfection" is relative I guess

Does anyone here noticed this? (Although, not everyone will be able to notice a 1 frame input lag)
.....sometimes I wish I could blind-test someone to see if they actually felt a one frame "lag" or whether it was all in their head because they love to believe they're so leet that they can notice it (most likely). It's the same as with the sound rate thing.
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Dmog
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Post by Dmog »

blackmyst wrote:
Dmog wrote:I posted this on the Nestopia sourceforge forum:
First off thanks for creating this incredible emulator. It's completely above all the other N.e.s emus in my (not-so) humble opinion.

The problem I've experience is as follow: When I have Vsync enabled it seem to create a small lag in terms of input responsiveness (using a gamepad). This lag is not more than 1 frame max (or approxi 0.016 sec)

When Vsync is turned off, I do not experience any kind of input lag whatsoever.Perfect responsiveness, but obviously I experience the annoying screen "tearing" then, which I hate.

I tried the TripleBuffering option instead, but it doesn't seem to do anything for me...(Still experience tearing when it's enabled)



Only this issue prevents this emulator from reaching perfection imo.
Although "perfection" is relative I guess

Does anyone here noticed this? (Although, not everyone will be able to notice a 1 frame input lag)
.....sometimes I wish I could blind-test someone to see if they actually felt a one frame "lag" or whether it was all in their head because they love to believe they're so leet that they can notice it (most likely). It's the same as with the sound rate thing.
:? That was unwarranted.

"I'll take the Pepsi challenge with that Amsterdam shit, any day of the fuckin' week" (quote from Pulp fiction)

But seriously. Yes,in Nestopia (1.27) there 'is' a small input lag when Vsync is on. Doesn't have anything to do with me wanting to feel quote: "leet".

Someone else reported the same thing btw, and I'm not the only one that can notice that type of small lags with some emu. (ex: many people said bsnes doesn't have the small lag zsnes does...you're telling me that's all in their head?)

And yes, it's true many people don't notice that type of lag.
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Post by blackmyst »

Like I said, I'd love to test it. People can "say" and "feel" a lot of things, but surely you should know that those things mean absolutely zip. One sixtieth of a second? Sound rates above 48 khz? When it involves these tiny differences, the mind is simply very susceptible to suggestion, and that's a fact. So excuse me if I take some of those comments with a grain of salt.

But anyway, there's always the possibility that the "lag" can be attrributed to something else that has a much larger effect. The way some people make it sound it's as if it's absolutely huge, which makes me remember when my mouse used to lag like half a second in Unreal 1. Never did find out what caused that.
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Post by Clements »

I experience no input lag with 1.27 with vsync enabled, but I do experience tearing when only triple buffering is enabled.
Dmog
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Post by Dmog »

blackmyst wrote:Like I said, I'd love to test it. People can "say" and "feel" a lot of things, but surely you should know that those things mean absolutely zip. One sixtieth of a second? Sound rates above 48 khz? When it involves these tiny differences, the mind is simply very susceptible to suggestion, and that's a fact. So excuse me if I take some of those comments with a grain of salt.
You make some valid points and indeed, I'm the first to agree that people are imperfect and can report imperfect or wrong informations. Heck,I'd 'love' to have a way to scientifically analyse the input lag (if any) with some external means,instead on relying on feels.

In this particular case though,I was simply playing/experimenting with Nestopia's setting (as I'm quite new with this emulator) and it was by coincidence I notice that the control were lag-free when Vsync was off. I wasn't "looking" for such lags.

And again,not to sound "l-eet" but presuming that something doesn't exist because you can't see it is not much better. Of course, the ideal would be to measure these things with something other than people's "feelings".

1/60 of a second( it may be more actually,but it certainly less than half a sec) is not 'that' insignificant anyway. For example: most people could see an image that flash on a screen for only 1/60 of a sec.
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Post by blackmyst »

Don't take the leetness comment all too personally, I was really just talking about the internet populace in general.

But anyway, yeah, I've always wondered if there wasn't some vsync/TB glitch that people were experiencing. I wasn't kidding when I said Unreal used to lag half a second on my old computer, I could literally click twice and then watch the game fire two shots after I'd let go of the button. The severity of the problem seemed to vary with each time I'd start up the game.
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Post by Jipcy »

Version 1.28 is listed on the files page, but not announced on the main page: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfile ... p_id=83320. Not all mirrors have it yet.

Code: Select all

----------------------------------------------------------------
1.28
----------------------------------------------------------------

Windows:

 Additions:
  
  - Sound volume level sliders.
  - More NTSC video filter options.
  - Scanline darkening level sliders.

 Changes:
  
  - Pressing the ALT-key when the menu is hidden should no longer
    cause "hickups" during play.
  - Recent files/directories menu lock state is now saved on exit.

 Fixes:

  - Window placement bug.

Emulator:

 Additions:

  - Non-linear APU sound output.
  - Mapper 116 for "AV-Girl Fighting".
  - Mapper 163 and 167. Info from tpu.
  - Database entries.

 Changes:

  - Update to version 0.1.7 of Blargg's NTSC composite video filter.
  - Fine-tuned the volume levels of the external sound chips.
  - More accurate SUNSOFT5B sound chip emulation.
  - Moved "Shanghai" to mapper 93.
  - Patch for "Dragon Ball Z II - Gekishin Freeza!! (redump)" to 
    use the proper EEPROM type.
  - 'No Sprite Limit' option should now be more responsive to games 
    that make heavy use of OAM cycling.

 Fixes:

  - Mapper 45, 53, 74, 90, 93, 164 and 165.
  - Dip-switch and input fixes for some VS.System games.
  - Database entries.
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Dmog
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Post by Dmog »

Jipcy wrote:Version 1.28 is listed on the files page, but not announced on the main page: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfile ... p_id=83320. Not all mirrors have it yet.

Code: Select all

----------------------------------------------------------------
1.28
----------------------------------------------------------------

Windows:

 Additions:
  
  - Sound volume level sliders.
  - More NTSC video filter options.
  - Scanline darkening level sliders.

 Changes:
  
  - Pressing the ALT-key when the menu is hidden should no longer
    cause "hickups" during play.
  - Recent files/directories menu lock state is now saved on exit.

 Fixes:

  - Window placement bug.

Emulator:

 Additions:

  - Non-linear APU sound output.
  - Mapper 116 for "AV-Girl Fighting".
  - Mapper 163 and 167. Info from tpu.
  - Database entries.

 Changes:

  - Update to version 0.1.7 of Blargg's NTSC composite video filter.
  - Fine-tuned the volume levels of the external sound chips.
  - More accurate SUNSOFT5B sound chip emulation.
  - Moved "Shanghai" to mapper 93.
  - Patch for "Dragon Ball Z II - Gekishin Freeza!! (redump)" to 
    use the proper EEPROM type.
  - 'No Sprite Limit' option should now be more responsive to games 
    that make heavy use of OAM cycling.

 Fixes:

  - Mapper 45, 53, 74, 90, 93, 164 and 165.
  - Dip-switch and input fixes for some VS.System games.
  - Database entries.
Small input lag with Vsync is still there unfortunately.

Btw Blackmyst, I did a self-administered blind test :lol:

I got into the timing configuration screen where Vsync is and - without looking at the screen of course, repeatedly clicked the mouse on the Vsync option and then exit, in such a way that I didn't know if Vsync was on or off when I did exited. I even alternated my click "rhythm" so that I wouldn't always do an even or odd numbers of "clicks". And I tested this in parts of a game (Zelda 2) without scrolling, so there wasn't any screen tearing when Vsync was off (that would have been of course a dead giveaway)
..The actual "test" consisted of simply pressing down and notice how responsive "Link" was to duck.

Aaaaaanyway...I tested this more then twenty times, and guessed right 100% of the time...So I'm convinced this is not a sort of "auto-sugestive placebo idea" mumbo jumbo thing...

Again, to anyone saying they don't notice a lag: This lag is no more than a frame (1/60) or two max.
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Post by blackmyst »

And what I'm saying is that there might be something weird with vsync. =p

I'm still waiting to hear if anybody else has ever had that odd problem I described in my previous two posts (be it in unreal or any other game that uses vsync), or whether it was just temporary insanity on my part.
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Post by Dmog »

blackmyst wrote:And what I'm saying is that there might be something weird with vsync. =p
I read once about the difference between Vsync and Triple buffering but I'm not sure what it is anymore.

The triple buffering option in Nestopia 1.28 still doesn't do anything...Maybe you're right, the problem may be caused by vsync and it would perhaps go away if the triple buffering option worked...I dunno. So if Martin-Freij read this,maybe he could be nice enough to look into it.. :D
Deathlike2
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Post by Deathlike2 »

Dmog wrote:
blackmyst wrote:And what I'm saying is that there might be something weird with vsync. =p
I read once about the difference between Vsync and Triple buffering but I'm not sure what it is anymore.

The triple buffering option in Nestopia 1.28 still doesn't do anything...Maybe you're right, the problem may be caused by vsync and it would perhaps go away if the triple buffering option worked...I dunno. So if Martin-Freij read this,maybe he could be nice enough to look into it.. :D
Supposedly Triple Buffering in conjunction with Vsync can cause input lag. I don't know why exactly that is though.

Link I googled up on Triple Buffering and Input Lag:
http://discuss.microsoft.com/SCRIPTS/WA ... F=P&P=7586
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Post by Nightcrawler »

Triple Buffering takes the place of Vsync as a better/alternative syncing mechanism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_buffering

Why the hell would you enable them both at once?

Stop doing that. :P

The author shouldn't allow you to select both of them at once. It's no surprise that it causes a problem.
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Dmog
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Post by Dmog »

Nightcrawler wrote:Triple Buffering takes the place of Vsync as a better/alternative syncing mechanism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_buffering

Why the hell would you enable them both at once?

Stop doing that. :P

The author shouldn't allow you to select both of them at once. It's no surprise that it causes a problem.
Except here, it's not the case...Only vsync is selected and it does cause lag. Like I said, in Nestopia TB doesn't seem to do anything anyway.
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Post by Jipcy »

If with just VSync, you have no frame rate slowdowns, you probably wouldn't notice a difference with Triple Buffering on.
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Dmog
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Post by Dmog »

Jipcy wrote:If with just VSync, you have no frame rate slowdowns, you probably wouldn't notice a difference with Triple Buffering on.
Err talking about input lags...Not cpu usage.
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