So, I just got a job today

lockharte · Post by **lockharte** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:15 am

It's kind of like the NBC mockumentary, the office, except I will be selling knives, instead of paper. base pay is $15.00/hr which is decent given that it is an entry level position and i have no prior work experience.

Also an hour later, I got sued by the RIAA...

if anyone here is a lawyer, please feel free to give legal counsel, if not, feel free to dish out whatever you want anyway.

here's the email in my inbox if anyone wants to laugh at my misfortune:

Northwestern University received the attached correspondence, entitled Notification of Copyright
Infringement Claims, from counsel for the Recording Industry Association of America ("RIAA") today.
The IP address specified in the RIAA's letter is associated with your NetID.

While Northwestern is not providing -- and cannot provide -- legal advice to you concerning this
matter, we are forwarding the RIAA's letter to you immediately to provide you as much time to
respond as possible. Please review the letter carefully; as it indicates, you may wish to consult
with an attorney who can advise you on your rights and responsibilities in connection with the
RIAA's claims.

i have to give it to them though, it really took them awhile to sue me. the event they are specifically referring to happened in january.

...strange day

PHoNyMiKe · Post by **PHoNyMiKe** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:41 am

format all hard drives, use a disk wiper that formats and rewrites each disk like 7 times. then ditch the drives. tell them you had a wireless router, which broke and you threw away. it must have been someone taping off your wireless.

innocent until proven guilty. all they have is an ip address, they don't have finger prints or any other hard evidence. don't buy into their scare tactics, if you admit it or do anything they say then you're giving them proof. do not contact them, if they do somehow contact them you say "fuck off, I did nothing, quit harassing me" if they're gonna sue based on ip address, they mine as well sue "Northwestern University." someone could have broken into your house and downloaded that shit. seriously, can they prove otherwise?

p.s. nice score on the job.

whicker · Post by **whicker** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 7:47 am

phOnYmIkE is giving somewhat disastrous advice about "somebody broke in and used my wireless router" oh.. wait.. uh.. I mean somebody broke my wireless rout... nah,... uh... heh... (sweat... gulp)...

Don't say anything, don't make excuses or try to spin a fancy tale about what happened. Clean up your act. Don't give in to negotiations. God, and here you are basically admitting what you did. You've already provided enough details about your situation for them to figure out your "online alias" if they ever find the post you just wrote.

Until they actually send a letter DIRECTLY TO YOU, don't do anything. Refuse any certified mail unless it's a summons. Your choice is basically when and if you DO get a nasty letter, tell them to stop racketeering and harassing you for a false debt you do not owe. Tell them you're vaguely familiar about how they go around falsely suing grandmothers and children. That you're not going to pay protection money.

This isn't about guilty/innocent. It's about proof. Proven guilty is the same as admitting to the alleged offense. If you do admit guilt by negotiation, you're still not off the hook. Don't eat the dangled carrot, IT'S A TRAP.

There's so many angles, don't limit your options. DON'T LIE, DENY! Take any correspondence directed at you mailed to your name, if it happens, to a real lawyer (not those personal injury lawyers you see on TV).

Again, this isn't about getting off the hook, I'm not telling you how to be free. I'm just trying to tell you how you can receive due process of law if it comes to that point.

I'll edit my post after you edit yours.

I just hope this isn't a school writing project of yours...

lockharte · Post by **lockharte** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:08 am

whicker wrote:
I just hope this isn't a school writing project of yours...

no, and i did actually get a mailed letter from the RIAA as well.

AntoineWG · Post by **AntoineWG** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:32 am

Well at least you have lots of knives...

What did you download, anyways? It better have been worth it. And you may as well go out and buy a copy of it. You can always say that downloading it influenced your purchase.

Joe Camacho · Post by **Joe Camacho** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 11:25 am

lockharte wrote:
whicker wrote:
I just hope this isn't a school writing project of yours...
no, and i did actually get a mailed letter from the RIAA as well.

Bare with me, I'm a bit drunk, and when I say a bit, I mean, a lot.

Ok.. Seriously, you have two options, just as whicker said:
1) Deny
2) Negociate

If you deny, you have to do all the shit Phonymike said, hell, the wireless story could even work, if played well, you just have to clean yourself or *any* evidence, if you got caught for downloading , I dunno, Half Life 2, don't just delete that, DELETE ALL.

They will tell you "Yada Yada, for all the damages caused, you owe us 10000000000000000000000 dollars, but because we are nice, we will settle for 100000 dollars" that's a dirty tactic, that while valid, it is as good as surrendering.

Get a proffesional lawyer ASAP, specially one that specializes in copyright law. There is no need to go all defensive with all that children and grandma crap, that while truth, it won't really serve a purpose.

You should post what the RIAA letter said. GET A LAWYER.

adventure_of_link · Post by **adventure_of_link** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:09 pm

Nice score with the job dude

I'm thinking about looking for something better myself, just need that driver's licence...

sad that all the good (and sometimes better) jobs are BYOT (bring your own transportation) eh?

whicker · Post by **whicker** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:24 pm

First of all, afaik nobody ever got sued for downloading.
It's the distribution to others they nab you for.

Joe Camacho · Post by **Joe Camacho** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:34 pm

whicker wrote:First of all, afaik nobody ever got sued for downloading.
It's the distribution to others they nab you for.

Indeed, uploading is what gets you busted, for now.

adventure_of_link · Post by **adventure_of_link** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:35 pm

illegal uploading is even described in my ISP's terms of service

then again, "posession is 9/10 of the law"

so meh

PHoNyMiKe · Post by **PHoNyMiKe** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 11:35 pm

what are you talking about I give great advice!

but I think we all agree on denying it. pretty much think of it as the riaa is accusing you of stealing five cars on that date. that's rediculous, you didn't steal five cars back in january, nor did you download any bullshit they're trying to sue you for. they have just as good a chance of proving you stole cars as proving you downloaded shit. so don't give in to their scare tactics and admit anything.

get a lawyer? yeah, cause you have thousands of dollars to throw away.

Cyrus · Post by **Cyrus** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:17 am

Just do what phonymike said.
1- Format
2- Wipe disk repeatedly
3- Do NOT contact them
4- If they contact you directly tell them to fuck off, they can't prove anything

Also, when you want this thread gone Joe can delete it for you.

Jikmo · Post by **Jikmo** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:17 am

Cyrus wrote:Just do what phonymike said.
1- Format
2- Wipe disk repeatedly
3- Do NOT contact them
4- If they contact you directly tell them to fuck off, they can't prove anything

Also, when you want this thread gone Joe can delete it for you.

That doesn't mean it's not available elsewhere in some kind of back log, and if it's known that the message was deleted (or even if it's not), it could be reason to confiscate the hard drives of whatever computer this forum is hosted on. Furthermore, unless I'm mistaken, isn't knowingly hiding evidence itself a punishable offense?

AntoineWG · Post by **AntoineWG** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:35 am

Yeah, at this point the worst thing you can do is wipe your computer clean. Doing so is tampering with evidence and almost an admission of guilt in itself. They already have all the evidence they need. If you must, shred some stuff that they may not know about, but don't delete everything.

PHoNyMiKe · Post by **PHoNyMiKe** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:51 am

AntoineWG wrote:Yeah, at this point the worst thing you can do is wipe your computer clean.

what the fuck are you talking about? I wipe my computer clean all the time (xp craps out) and get new hard drives all the time. what's wrong with that?

AntoineWG wrote:Doing so is tampering with evidence and almost an admission of guilt in itself. They already have all the evidence they need.

seriously what the fuck are you on? you're acting like they have his dna all over a murder weapon. at best they have an ip address linked to his address. doesn't mean he downloaded anything.

AntoineWG wrote:If you must, shred some stuff that they may not know about, but don't delete everything.

yeah, shredding those receipts of all the warez he sells is gonna shave maybe 10 years off his sentence. wtf.

dude, AntoineWG is the kind of dude the IRAA is looking to catch. don't wipe your hard drive? why not, it's your hard drive. you gonna not wipe your hard drive cause you think it's what the IRAA would want you to do? he pry thinks the RIAA installed some rootkit and has more proof than a time and ip address. I'd take it as a joke from Antoine but I detect 0% sarcasm and 70% fear in his words! all you got was a letter, and there's no proof it was you! getting a lawyer or doing anything other than telling them to fuck off is an admission of guilt.

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:18 pm

Just a thought.. formatting a hard drive doesn't get rid of the evidence. You have to physically destroy the hard drive so the thing is unusable. There are tools for data recovery even after you've erased data in the hard drive.. you would have to use special software tools to completely erase data on the hd.

creaothceann · Post by **creaothceann** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:40 pm

whicker wrote:First of all, afaik nobody ever got sued for downloading.
It's the distribution to others they nab you for.

Downloading via a peer-to-peer program, which automatically offers the downloaded parts to others, is also "bad".

I've heard something about that, but wasn't very interested & hence don't remember much about it... might've been an european thing.

casualsax3 · Post by **casualsax3** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:52 pm

Your school has a lawyer that will be available to you.

Joe Camacho · Post by **Joe Camacho** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:13 pm

creaothceann wrote:
whicker wrote:First of all, afaik nobody ever got sued for downloading.
It's the distribution to others they nab you for.
Downloading via a peer-to-peer program, which automatically offers the downloaded parts to others, is also "bad".

I've heard something about that, but wasn't very interested & hence don't remember much about it... might've been an european thing.

"Bad" how? Regarding morals, probably. Financially speaking, probably too.

But according to past lawsuits, it's uploading what's being currently prosecuted, imagine the drug dealer / drug addict situation. You would want prosecute the source, not the client.

In this case, it's the uploader that is giving the oportunity for others to copy it, damaging the economic state of the copyright holder.

Logic would tell you that both are responsable, but let's say there is an uploader and a downloader, the downloader got 1 .mp3, with a value of 1 dollar, while the uploader managed to let the file get downloaded by 10,000 people.. Who caused more harm?

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:28 pm

RIAA lawsuits are founded on intimidation, which is why they're mostly settled out of court -- RIAA intimidates Joe Fileshare, and he agrees to pay a one-time fee to avoid any further problems. Now, if they actually tried to bring these frivelous disputes into court, they would be laughed at.

Personally, I would challenge their "evidence" against me and counter-sue for every ridiculous reason I could -- harassment, emotional distress, invasion of privacy, etc.

Joe Camacho · Post by **Joe Camacho** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:09 pm

Grendel wrote:RIAA lawsuits are founded on intimidation, which is why they're mostly settled out of court -- RIAA intimidates Joe Fileshare, and he agrees to pay a one-time fee to avoid any further problems. Now, if they actually tried to bring these frivelous disputes into court, they would be laughed at.

Personally, I would challenge their "evidence" against me and counter-sue for every ridiculous reason I could -- harassment, emotional distress, invasion of privacy, etc.

Ah no. They *do* have a right to protect their copyright, this isn't something out of the blue. And it's easy to solve this out of court because the "real" amount of damage a person would be condemned to pay by the numbers it's ridiculously huge, but it's the real amount.

Hey, no one is forcing you to upload stuff. It's no harassment because they have a legal purpose, so they aren't doing it out of the law. It's not invasion of privacy because they surely got this information from the ISP provider, and the right to privacy is usually the less of to rights, in this case, right of privacy Vs right of property/copyright.

And good luck trying to prove emotional distress.

lockharte · Post by **lockharte** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:17 pm

casualsax3 wrote:Your school has a lawyer that will be available to you.

yes, but two problems:

she doesn't specialize in copyright or technology cases, and she is out for the summer.

and by the way, in the letter i got from the RIAA, one paragraph tells me i have 40 days to settle, and the last part tells me i only have 20 days to settle before they sue me.

is this inconsistency a mistake on their part, or am i missing something here?

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:26 pm

lockharte wrote:and by the way, in the letter i got from the RIAA, one paragraph tells me i have 40 days to settle, and the last part tells me i only have 20 days to settle before they sue me.

is this inconsistency a mistake on their part, or am i missing something here?

Exactly. Like I said above, they're just going to try to bully you into a settlement. I doubt they would actually bother trying to take you to court. I'm pretty sure they hand these out like candy and hope someone is gullible enough to buy into it.

creaothceann · Post by **creaothceann** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:48 pm

Joe Camacho wrote:"Bad" how?

Valid reason for a lawsuit, or something like that. Or an increased level of interest from police / copyright holders, since you're now one step above (or below) the generic Joe Downloader.

Eh, better ignore this until someone else can confirm it.

PHoNyMiKe · Post by **PHoNyMiKe** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:01 am

I would email the RIAA from your computer saying this:

to whom it may concern:

I received a letter from the RIAA stating that I downloaded some sort of copyrighted material. I did no such thing. I hope this settles your inquiry.

seriously, it's all bully tactics, and they have no evidence. they'll pry contact you again stating all the proof they have, time and ip address, trying to lure you into more tactics. to that reply:

I did not download any of this stuff you claim. please stop contacting me.

because if it ever does go to court, they can use your replies as evidence. so claim nothing but innocence. even if they say "hey give us $10 and we'll call it even" tell them to fuck off because you never downloaded anything. it's easy!