SONY PS-3 100% backwards compatibility and region free...

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ST Dragon
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SONY PS-3 100% backwards compatibility and region free...

Post by ST Dragon »

So, it’s been some time since the PS-3 has been released in Europe, but I’ve read some nagging issues about the PAL PS-3 regarding backwards compatibility and region free capability.

1. Is the EURO PAL PS-3 fully backwards compatible and 100% region free with all PS-1/2 games?

2. For example can you play, Thunder Force V (JPN PS-1), Einhander (US PS-1), Mushihimesama (JPN PS-2) and R-Type Final (US PS-2) as well as X-2 (EU PS-1) & Gradius V (EU PS-2) on the EURO PAL PS-3 console?

It would be best to verify before one spends his/hers hard earned money on one these! ;)

Thanks in advance.
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Post by blackmyst »

Last I heard the European PS3 was going to lose the hardware BC and revert to software emulation which is apparently not compatible with all titles.
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Post by Neo Kaiser »

The problem is that their emulators are fixed for certain games then broken for others. I they where to do things the emulation's community's way then they would have better results.
Last edited by Neo Kaiser on Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by ST Dragon »

If they where to do things the emulation's community way then they would have better results.
How would that be excactly? ;)


That said, PS1/2 games are supposed to look better running off of the PS3 thanks to "upscaling".
But what's upscaling?
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Post by snkcube »

ST Dragon wrote:
If they where to do things the emulation's community way then they would have better results.
How would that be excactly? ;)


That said, PS1/2 games are supposed to look better running off of the PS3 thanks to "upscaling".
But what's upscaling?
I believe upscaling converts the game's resolution to something much higher such as 720p or 1080i. Backward compatibility is region-locked so don't plan on playing any imported games.
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ST Dragon
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Post by ST Dragon »

Also is it true that US/JPN PS-3 incorporates Hardware Backwards compatibility where as EURO PS-3 relies on software emulation to cut down the cost?
Which would explain the 20% difference in compatibility between EURO & US/JPN PS-3s.

Supposedly the Euro software emulator will surpass the US hardware emulator using Bios updates, but can't the hardware emulator also be updated via the bios so that they'll be equal at some point?
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Post by Agozer »

Yes, it is true. The Emotion Engine was removed from the PAL PS3s in an effort to cut costs. AFAIK, Japan and the US will face the same thing eventually.

As a result by the time the European PS3 launched, around ~1,800 out of ~2,400 titles worked perfectly or with some errors. Yeah, firmware updates make the compatibility better, but last time I looked most of my PS2 games wouldn't work at all or worked poorly with the PS3 - especially games that make heavy use of the Emotion Engine's "special" features.
Last edited by Agozer on Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Gil_Hamilton »

snkcube wrote:
ST Dragon wrote:
If they where to do things the emulation's community way then they would have better results.
How would that be excactly? ;)


That said, PS1/2 games are supposed to look better running off of the PS3 thanks to "upscaling".
But what's upscaling?
I believe upscaling converts the game's resolution to something much higher such as 720p or 1080i. Backward compatibility is region-locked so don't plan on playing any imported games.
It's not like one of those emus with a DirectX plugin that renders the game at a higher resolution.
The games are still rendered at their native resolution, THEN upsampled to the Ps3's configured output resolution.
So it's only an advantage relative to the original PS3 firmware, which used crappy resize functions that made everything look like ass.
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Post by corronchilejano »

Well, thank god we have emus.
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Post by snkcube »

Gil_Hamilton wrote:
snkcube wrote:
ST Dragon wrote:
If they where to do things the emulation's community way then they would have better results.
How would that be excactly? ;)


That said, PS1/2 games are supposed to look better running off of the PS3 thanks to "upscaling".
But what's upscaling?
I believe upscaling converts the game's resolution to something much higher such as 720p or 1080i. Backward compatibility is region-locked so don't plan on playing any imported games.
It's not like one of those emus with a DirectX plugin that renders the game at a higher resolution.
The games are still rendered at their native resolution, THEN upsampled to the Ps3's configured output resolution.
So it's only an advantage relative to the original PS3 firmware, which used crappy resize functions that made everything look like ass.
I know now they have some graphic filter option, which smooths out the graphics when the games are upsampled. It might not look too great but it's something, right?
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Post by Cyrus »

Yep the 60GB PS3s in North America are being phased out and replaced by 80GB ones which use a Cell CPU made with a smaller die (65nm?), with a cheaper Blu-Ray drive and with the Emotion Engine + Graphics Synthesizer chip cut out so it will rely on half-assed (at best) emulation. That and they will cost a lot more than the 60GB ones despite costing less to make.
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Post by ST Dragon »

Gil_Hamilton wrote:
snkcube wrote:
ST Dragon wrote:
If they where to do things the emulation's community way then they would have better results.
How would that be excactly? ;)


That said, PS1/2 games are supposed to look better running off of the PS3 thanks to "upscaling".
But what's upscaling?
I believe upscaling converts the game's resolution to something much higher such as 720p or 1080i. Backward compatibility is region-locked so don't plan on playing any imported games.
It's not like one of those emus with a DirectX plugin that renders the game at a higher resolution.
The games are still rendered at their native resolution, THEN upsampled to the Ps3's configured output resolution.
So it's only an advantage relative to the original PS3 firmware, which used crappy resize functions that made everything look like ass.
Upscaling:
http://hometheater.about.com/od/homethe ... ingdef.htm
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Post by sweener2001 »

cyrus is talking out of his butt again.

the 80 gb will cost 600$, just like the 60 did. and the 60 is only cheaper so they can phase it out. once it's gone, that's it.

that other stuff could be true, i don't really keep track of what they're doing.

EDIT: and i forgot that the 80 gb comes with a game to boot
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Post by Cyrus »

sweener2001 wrote:cyrus is talking out of his butt again.

the 80 gb will cost 600$, just like the 60 did. and the 60 is only cheaper so they can phase it out. once it's gone, that's it.

that other stuff could be true, i don't really keep track of what they're doing.

EDIT: and i forgot that the 80 gb comes with a game to boot
I'm not in the US. The 60GB version was $800 until it dropped to the MSRP of $741 ('$650' but after reality kicks in it's $741) and now that they're phasing it out it's $627. The 80GB version will cost the old price of $800 as opposed ot the 60GB's current price of $627. Even in the US it still will cost the old price as you just said, which is still a chunk more. Why would you make such a stupid point if you knew I was referring to the current price...

Looks like you were the one talking out of your ass again.
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Post by Gil_Hamilton »

Everyone's doing it! Assholes are the new mouth!
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Post by sweener2001 »

it's all in your lack of semantics

i stated how it is, you "stated how it is" in an exaggerated fashion. the fact that the price is going back to normal is very different from "a lot more." then there's the fact that you're getting a bigger HDD and a game. yes, they're probably still making more of a profit due to the lack of hardware emulation and smaller die size, but honestly it won't be that different from the consumer's point of view. it's not like major blockbuster games won't work anymore, just obscure asian titles no one cares about. and are you honestly complaining about the fact that it will run cooler thanks to smaller chip process?
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Post by Cyrus »

sweener2001 wrote:it's all in your lack of semantics

i stated how it is, you "stated how it is" in an exaggerated fashion. the fact that the price is going back to normal is very different from "a lot more." then there's the fact that you're getting a bigger HDD and a game. yes, they're probably still making more of a profit due to the lack of hardware emulation and smaller die size, but honestly it won't be that different from the consumer's point of view. it's not like major blockbuster games won't work anymore, just obscure asian titles no one cares about. and are you honestly complaining about the fact that it will run cooler thanks to smaller chip process?
I was pointing out the three things which resulted in price cuts, I never said that they're all bad. Anyone who knows anything about CPUs knows a die shrink is a good thing due to lower power consumption and heat output.

Also, I said cheaper blu-ray drive as in cheaper in price to produce, not necessarily a lower quality one. Something apparently had changed resulting in cheaper to produce drives. I don't remember what exactly so you'll have to look that up if you want to know.

As for the EE+GS chip (the CPU and GPU of the PS2 on one chip) being removed that's a bad thing no matter how you look at it. Sony can say all they want about firmware updates resulting in improved emulation, and blind fans can rave on about how great the emulation is.... but no matter how you look at it in the end emulation will not measure up to the real thing.

The last time I saw a compatibility list of PS2 games which the PAL PS3 could run it was extremely disappointing. The majority of the games were either not working or working with serious and/or understated bugs, not just unknown asian games but a lot of internationally popular ones too like SC3. I'm not very confident that this will be improved significantly anytime within the next two years if at all.
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Post by sweener2001 »

it would appear that i gave sony a little too much credit in the software emulation department, then.

at least they update more often than MS.
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Post by snkcube »

sweener2001 wrote:it would appear that i gave sony a little too much credit in the software emulation department, then.

at least they update more often than MS.
Maybe not in the software backwards compatibility area, but otherwise, you're correct.
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Post by clessoulis »

Let me just say the ps3 has the worst upscaling ever. It still looks horrible on my hdtv where as my xbox games look wonderfull when scaled on the 360. This is why hardware scaler chips are better than software scalling. They should just convert over to emulating instead of upscaling.
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Post by Deathlike2 »

I doubt its the chip (although it would help), but I suspect it is the software algo used (it could be poorly optimized/designed/not ideal).
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Post by Cyrus »

Update:
Sony now has a shitty site which lists backward compatibility problems of the USA NTSC PS3s. Unlike the Euro sites which just list them out they require you to type in the name in the US site... possibly because of how hard this new 80GB PS3 is failing.


Examples:

Soul Calibur II
Publisher: NamcoProduct No: SLUS-20643
Description: Throughout gameplay, the title performs at a significantly slower than normal performance speed.

Soul Calibur III
Publisher: NamcoProduct No: SLUS-21216
Description: Throughout gameplay, the title performs at a significantly slower than normal performance speed.

Final Fantasy VIII
Publisher: Square EA (Square Enix)Product No: SLUS-00892
Description: Throughout gameplay, when the user's party encounters a random enemy in the "world map", and the “pre-battle” transition screen appears, approximately 40 - 60% of the “pre-battle” transition screen appears black, and the remaining portion of the screen appears corrupted.

Final Fantasy IX
Publisher: Square EA (Square Enix)Product No: SLUS-01251 / 01295 / 01296 / 01297
Description: Throughout gameplay and FMA's, when the user’s character walks up or down on screen and the camera pans up or down to follow the movement, four transparent horizontal lines appear across the screen.


All this trouble because Sony decided to cut out a chip which supposedly saves them $20 per console.

Now what console am I supposed to buy considering I'll be DAMNED if I pay monthly fees for Micro$oft's online xbox 'service'? And no, the Nintendo Urine is not an option. I wanted a PS3 to replace my dead PS2 and for the upcoming FF and SC games. Now that plan has failed and gone to shit, thanks Sony.
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Post by Nightcrawler »

At some point several months back when this change was announced, i was arguing with some people about how this is a bad move. They kept saying you can get far greater compatibility via emulation than you could with the hardware chip...

In theory, I suppose that's true. However, looking at reality, it's not. This is a great example. Look at any other emulator. It takes a long time to even approach 99% for emulator compatibility. They're going to be plagued with issues for a long time to come.

Perhaps several years from now, it may be a worthwhile solution, but it's not now.
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Post by snkcube »

Cyrus wrote:Now what console am I supposed to buy considering I'll be DAMNED if I pay monthly fees for Micro$oft's online xbox 'service'? And no, the Nintendo Urine is not an option. I wanted a PS3 to replace my dead PS2 and for the upcoming FF and SC games. Now that plan has failed and gone to shit, thanks Sony.
Xbox Live isn't a monthly based service, but a yearly service. And there's also two options of an Xbox Live account: either silver (free) or gold (pay).
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Post by corronchilejano »

I read somewhere that the problem is that the newer PS3's no longer have the chip that made backward emulation (mostly) posible. From the 80gb model and uppwards it's all software emulation. I wonder how long will they be working on backwards compatibility?
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