byuu wrote:Again, I don't ask others to agree with me. If you give me any credit at all, you can at least say that I practice what I preach.
If only more people do what you do.
Sorry, I got the wrong impression from your post. It seemed like you were saying ideals only matter when the dollar amount is too high.
Well, I'm basically saying that sometimes people need to look beyond their ideals, and look at the reality of the situation. And in this case, I think it's a little silly to say that "I'm against paying for emulator software" when the software costs $2.50.
EDIT: here, I wrote an article on my feelings on this matter. Feel free to disagree with me if you choose.
I'll take a look later when I have more time.
Man, I really do love a good, sane, mature, civil discussion once in a while.
first off, buying his emulator isn't going to hurt the sales of the DS, is it right? no it isn't, because it's not his, but did he work for it, yes, so is it wrong to ask for pay? that really is up to the person.
I don't really want to argue for either side, I'm glad most emus are free.
morals are absolute but then again what is the moral here.
I will not do this because it hurts DS sales? no, not really.
I will not do this because it does not belong to him therefore he can't sell it? yes, that makes sense, but then again why do we even use emulators at all? consoles aren't that expensive, certainly less expensive than getting the computers that run them, even old systems like the SNES. but it is INTERESTING to take em apart. Emulation is a fascination for me, as I'm sure it is for many of you, beyond simply playing a game.
I guess I'm saying, there IS something a little shady about zero day releases of games that are all about stealing, but just because the DS isn't ancient, I don't think that there is anything wrong with making an emulator for it. I don't think his main intent is to pirate, but I could be wrong. I'd rather someone work on it now, than wait till it's old and politically correct to work on it, it's such a successful system I just have a really hard time seeing this emulator make it struggle, it would be different if it was affecting the system, or it was simply made to play games for free.
I used to think emulators were just to play games for free when I FIRST got that, but it's so much more than that.
of course most of you agree with me, and now it's all about the issue of him asking for money, because that's really politically incorrect.
The thing is you can still have the last version, but of course the issue remains, he's charging for his emu.
The thing is though, why do you think that is? I'm sure he's had a paypal link on his site for ages, so what is the deal? people are greedy, they take and never choose to help the guy out. SO eventually he makes people pay for the latest release, because people don't decide to donate of their own accord. That alone is pretty sad. Not that you should feel obligated to pay, but I've always felt that if you take advantage of someone's work, it's always nice to try to return the favor. It is a bit rude to expect it, but I mean c'mon. Many things are easy enough to just give and receive and there is no reason to expect anything in return, but when someone spends there time to make something you can use and enjoy I think that it certainly isn't out of the question to try to return the favor. Perhaps there are less morally gray ways than paying money for software that emulates licensed software, but you understand my point yes?
Now I think it's lame too to beg for money, but I don't think this dude doesn't have a job, but think that if he takes that much insane time to research all this stuff, he is not getting paid for that time, so the way I see it, it's basically
"ok guys, this saps a lot of my time, and I kind of need to make some money, so if I'm going to keep working on this I kinda need some people to help fund it"
I mean it's almost Christmas, goodness. I'm really usually apposed to paying anything for emu stuff, but for some reason this just makes sense to me.
I'm not saying either side "MUST BE RIGHT" I'm just saying that I don't think we should assume that people are lazy, and people are manipulative by default.
I know it's great that everything is free, but maybe we should start giving to the community that gives us so much and I'm not even talking about nocash, and it just doesn't have to be paypal, it can be time coding something if you have the knowledge, or bug testing as some people are apt at (yes it actually is hard work if you do it right), or donate hardware that people need, or do research.
I think not everyone, but the community in general is a little self centered at times, I'd be the first to admit it over anyone else. And maybe I think it's time we start trying to be a little more useful by donating some part of us in some capacity, so that people don't have to charge for emus (I know for many emu authors this will never be a problem, and I thank you, but all the more reason to try to support you in someway, of course some of you would feel very uncomfortable with money, but there are always alternatives)
so I guess in the end you can look at it two ways, and I can't really say what the guy's TRUE intent is.
you can see it as PAYING for this software as it is for sale
or you can see it as donating to his work
I know it is rather forced, not your normal kind of donation, but whatever, I've rambled long enough.
[quote="byuu"]Seriously, what kind of asshole makes an old-school 2D emulator that requires a Core 2 to get full speed? [i]>:([/i] [/quote]
Panzer88 wrote:The thing is though, why do you think that is? I'm sure he's had a paypal link on his site for ages, so what is the deal? people are greedy, they take and never choose to help the guy out. SO eventually he makes people pay for the latest release, because people don't decide to donate of their own accord. That alone is pretty sad.
You may have a point if he hadn't been such a jackass back in the no$gmb days.
Looks like he's since taken down the page where he was posting the personal information of the people that paid for the leaked keys and requesting people launch counterattacks.
I'm telling you right now that history has shown that emus are usually doomed when money has to be involved.. whether it be because of legality or because they are geniunely that poor.
Obviously, within the context of the politics of the online emulation community. I don't think mainstream politics has treated this issue very much.
Gil_Hamilton wrote:Looks like he's since taken down the page where he was posting the personal information of the people that paid for the leaked keys and requesting people launch counterattacks.
byuu, I read your article. I definitely agree with you on the problems with current copyright. On the other hand, I have no strong opinion for or against charging money for emulators or programming emulators for on-the-market systems.
byuu wrote:Many mentioned that because the cost was so low, surely nobody's ideals could get in the way of "donating."
I suppose when you say "many" here you really mean me?
For a long time, the latest MEKA release was only available to registered users - everyone else could only get the previous versions. That seemed to work pretty well for Omar when things were tight.
Gil_Hamilton wrote:Looks like he's since taken down the page where he was posting the personal information of the people that paid for the leaked keys and requesting people launch counterattacks.
I suppose when you say "many" here you really mean me? :D
I changed it to "some". This was discussed on RHDN as well, with similar feelings all around.
I also try and avoid naming anyone specific in those articles, as it's not very nice.
Or possibly I just missed the link.
The very bottom of this page is pretty classy, too.
ha, of course being the hypocrat that I am the next emu that comes out that wants money I'll be totally outraged.
I realize the guy might just be a jerk, or lazy, but I guess I was trying to think of a "what if" situation, but that's never good.
when I said politically incorrect, what I meant was that what I'm saying may be frowned upon, but that I'd say it anyways.
I really like to try to sit in other people's shoes for a day, but I want to charge money for it if I was making it, not because I'm a patron saint but that could be risky as mentioned before.
I think overall I agree with you byuu, and free software, I was simply searching for a counterargument, and I think I said some good things, but overall it DOES usually cause problems. Nice article by the way.
[quote="byuu"]Seriously, what kind of asshole makes an old-school 2D emulator that requires a Core 2 to get full speed? [i]>:([/i] [/quote]
I don't want to discuss either or not to pay for emulators, of course, if it is a FANTASTIC one, why not? Donate here and there, it will raise the world!
But don't come with lame arguments about seeing his "situation", "the poor bastard without luck that can't buy drugs" blahblah...
If you really believe in all this bullshit, here is something you must see, at the bottom of this page: http://nocash.emubase.de/gbapics.htm .
He plays fairly well, eh? Spreading nonsense about emulators not working because "you don't have a modern PC". The error messages are self explanatory.
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Jipcy wrote:Bad:
- The emulator doesn't auto-detect the correct save type format. You must manually select the correct format. Use this for reference.
- You must select and load a ROM before entering into the main emulator GUI. So you can't just open the emulator and do some configuration before loading a ROM.
Both of these points make the emulator a pain to use for me. You sometimes need to load a game, then switch save type, then reset to get the game to work. Fantastic emulator otherwise, the new release plays everything smoothly with the new renderer (which has some tiny artefacts that don't detract from the game).
v2.6a out, and the points I mentioned above are now no longer an issue with a new auto-detect save type feature.
Jipcy wrote:Bad:
- The emulator doesn't auto-detect the correct save type format. You must manually select the correct format. Use this for reference.
- You must select and load a ROM before entering into the main emulator GUI. So you can't just open the emulator and do some configuration before loading a ROM.
v2.6a out, and the points I mentioned above are now no longer an issue with a new auto-detect save type feature.
I just tried 2.6a, you still have to select a ROM before you can get into the program. Anyone have any luck NOT doing that?
But yeah, NDS savetype has autodetect now.
EDIT: Interestingly, the link that I got after I donated to get v2.6 also works for getting 2.6a. I was somewhat under the impression that you had to pay for EACH new version. But, whatever.
Very true, but unless you need to change the Emulation Speed option between games, this problem won't be so bad. The other minor options can be set up and saved, and don't normally need changing.
Now, if we could just resize the window when playing DS games, this would be the perfect DS emulator (not that there are any better DS emulators right now).
Oh yeah, and maybe support for the Nintendo-produced Option Paks: the Rumble Pak, and the Memory Expansion Pak that came with the Opera browser.
And also, support for those few DS games that would give you unlockables if you had the right GBA game plugged in (Advance Wars).
Jipcy wrote:Oh yeah, and maybe support for the Nintendo-produced Option Paks: the Rumble Pak, and the Memory Expansion Pak that came with the Opera browser.
Why would you even want support for the Rumble Pak? It seems very pointless.
Try out CCleaner and other free software at Piriform
Haha, I remember playing the japanese version of pokemon gold on No$GB(C). The DOS version. And just from seeing the debugger and shit I knew he knew what he was doing.
... how can you make an emulator and NOT know what you're doing?
Was surprised when I found he moved onto advance and then DS.
Near the end of page one I said "fuck it, these guys have their heads too far up their asses to have a non-insulting conversation" and skipped reading the rest of the thread.
That said. Sometimes I prefer playing GBA games I own on an emulator just because the quality is so much better. The GBA SP's screen leaves a lot to be desired, even against an ages-old CRT. And anything to get away from 1-inch speaker mono sound between my thumbs... I really freakin wish it had a headphone port. Or that I had a DS. Some DS and GBA games sound fucking sweet through headphones. I can hear tracks and instruments I didn't even know existed!
Athlon XP 2800+
765MB DDR-333
AGP Geforce 6200
Took me, what, a year to update this info?
And meh, screw legs.
Oh... puns. I get it. Shame on me.
Rydian wrote:Near the end of page one I said "fuck it, these guys have their heads too far up their asses to have a non-insulting conversation" and skipped reading the rest of the thread.
Are you talking about THIS thread? I don't believe anybody was insulting each other, we were just having a somewhat heated debate.
Rydian wrote:I really freakin wish it had a headphone port.
snkcube wrote:Why would you even want support for the Rumble Pak? It seems very pointless.
"Because I think it would be cool" to play a DS game that supports the Rumble Pak and have my PC controller rumble. The real rumble pak itself seems a bit pointless, as it seems to make quite a lot of noise when it vibrates (at least when I used with Picross DS). I haven't tried it with any other games.
byuu wrote:Hmmm, and which link was that, again?
Yes, I'm just kidding. Please don't actually post it or send it to me.
I think I can see your principles fighting with your desire to play with a new (version of an) emulator.
I wasn't planning on it.
Last edited by Jipcy on Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
Rydian wrote:Near the end of page one I said "fuck it, these guys have their heads too far up their asses to have a non-insulting conversation" and skipped reading the rest of the thread.
Are you talking about THIS thread? I don't believe anybody was insulting each other, we were just having a somewhat heated debate.
Pssh. You guys can't discuss what you had for lunch without an insult.
Jipcy wrote:
Rydian wrote:I really freakin wish it had a headphone port.
1 - Unneeded insult backs my previous point. Me not knowing about that was ignorance, not stupidity, and I'm going to consider you lower than me until you learn the difference. That goes for mostly everybody here. All these brains and no tact...
2 - That's not a headphone port on the DS anyways, so the fact that you insulted me over it lowers you yet again.
3 - I'm gonna' pick one of those things up if I can find it, thank you. Now to find a games shop near me... I still need to pick up a PS2 to USB adapter. PS2 minus the slash.
Athlon XP 2800+
765MB DDR-333
AGP Geforce 6200
Took me, what, a year to update this info?
And meh, screw legs.
Oh... puns. I get it. Shame on me.
