FF3 saves lost when using ZSNES cheat code function

Edea · Post by **Edea** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:09 am

ROM Title: Final Fantasy III V1.1 U !

Type: Normal

Interleaved: No

Video: NTSC

Bank: High

Version of ZSNES being used: zsnes151. This also occured when using zsnes142 and a different emulator (snes9x).

ROM'S CRC32 Number:COFA0464.

Checksum of ROM: ZSNES reports it is OK, I followed the link in the sticky at the top of the forum and it said the domain hadn't been renewed yet.

I searched for "final fantasy save" and found a couple threads that seemed close to my problem:

http://board.zsnes.com/phpBB2/viewtopic ... ntasy+save -> Almost, but for me it is only this particular ROM, and I only lose the save game files if I use the "Add Code" function.

http://board.zsnes.com/phpBB2/viewtopic ... ntasy+save -> K, this thread just confused me, since it seemed to resolve itself mysteriously :/.

The other threads didn't seem close enough to help. I strongly suspect this is a ROM issue and not ZSNES, since snes9x does the exact same thing. However, I was hoping someone else could try doing this with the particular ROM I specified, and see if the same thing happens to them (right now I'm just using the very first save point, at the Caves of Narshe while you're in MagiTek armor).

Actual gameplay is completely fine. This is only concerning saving a game file using Final Fantasy III's "original" saving system (this does not happen when using ZSNES's save state function, but I use those for other games).

What's Wrong: I make a save game file using the original saving system for Final Fantasy III (step on a save point, press S, go to the Save option, and choose one of the three slots to save in). Save states do NOT do this, only the in-game saves.

Then, I exit out of the in-game menu, push Esc to get to ZSNES's menu options, and I then enter any code using the ZSNES's "Cheat -> Add Code" function. I don't have to save the cheat list, and I don't have to click "Auto-Load .cht file" to get this problem to occur.

When I return to the game (by pushing Esc again), return to the in-game menu when at a save point (by pushing S again), and select "Save," all of the slots in the resulting menu are empty, as if I'd never made a save game file. Occassionally the menu is not purged, but enter any new strings of cheat codes, and it will be. In fact, reloading the game causes the Save menu screen to pop up after pushing X (the "A" button), yet it's empty! Normally if that menu is empty, the game will just go straight to the opening movie.

Long story short, I am unable to enter anything in ZSNES's "Cheat -> Add Code" function without losing my game save files for Final Fantasy III. ZSNES does this to NONE of my other ROMs, including Final Fantasy II, but they are all from the same online location. I have specified a save path in ZSNES leading to a file where all ROMS and saves are kept together.

Is this a bad ROM dump? (If so...crap, finding another dump is going to -suck-). I apologize if this was an incorrect request, I tried

*mod edit: DO NOT POST THE WEB PAGE NAMES OR URLS TO ROM SITES, EVER. EVER AGAIN. other than that nice bug report.*

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:36 am

1) Isn't there a chance that one of the cheats you "auto loaded" deletes the saves? There are a few codes that do exactly that.

2) Depending on what the codes are.. specifically Game Genie, those most likely won't work with the ROM version you are using. They are usually expecting version 1.0 of FF3 US.

Edea · Post by **Edea** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 7:20 am

I don't -believe- so; I have "Auto Load .cht file at startup" turned off at the moment. It's that actual act of entering a string, any string, into the Add Code menu that sets this off.

These are PAR codes. I'm sorry, I forgot to include which sample strings I'm using :/. It's 7E1869 63, and 7E1609 FA. That sets 99 items in the first slot, and sets Terra's Max HP at 250 (the codes themselves work just fine).

Once the codes have been entered, if I save a game file afterwards, and just leave the codes already entered alone, there aren't any further problems. This only happens when a new code is entered, regardless of whether I save it to the .cht file or not (doesn't seem to matter what code it is).

Thanks for the quick reponse. I suspect this isn't ZSNES's fault, but the ROM dump's. However, I'm not sure how to go about confirming that other than to see if anyone else gets the same result.

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 7:28 am

My guess is that you are entering bad codes in.

If it occurs on another emu, more often than not, it is the codes you are entering in.

The fact that you're reporting a cheat related issue.. this simply cannot be classified as a bug, and this post will be moved.

Edea · Post by **Edea** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 7:32 am

Yeah, it's also occuring on snes9x, crossing multiple emulators.

So it's the codes themselves? I wouldn't have guessed that, since it didn't seem to matter what strings I was entering in. Alright, I'll try some other strings and see if it keeps giving me the same problem.

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 7:43 am

Well, if it's happening to just one game, there's a good chance it is the codes you are entering in.

On the other hand, when you do your saving, you should create a savestate when you do that, for good measure.

creaothceann · Post by **creaothceann** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:52 am

These codes might affect the content of SRAM. Many games use checksums to check for SRAM modifications, and erase it if one is found.

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 11:47 am

creaothceann wrote:These codes might affect the content of SRAM. Many games use checksums to check for SRAM modifications, and erase it if one is found.

FF6 does NOT, however. Or at least, not very strictly.

Empirical evidence can be found in the horrifically mangled saves that the infamous sketch bug can trigger. Though said bug CAN destroy saves, it's a fairly rare occurrence.

Edea · Post by **Edea** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:00 pm

Ugh, yeah, because I tried using some Game Genie codes instead (they write to Cxxxxx instead of 7xxxxx, I guess; I do not like GG codes), and they are not erasing the save game files. Only the PAR codes do this. So it seems to be the way this game is interacting with that range of memory.

Crap, so I can't use PAR codes on FF3, or it will erase my saves? Too bad there aren't better GG codes (at least the ones on GameFAQs aren't...quite what I want :/). Sorry for originally posting this in bugs, btw. Guess I'll just write all of the codes I want in before ever starting a new game.

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:22 pm

AFAIK, the saves generated by FF3US v1.1 are not totally compatable with FF3US v1.0. It may be worth your time to find FF3 US v1.0 if you really want to use the codes.

Edea · Post by **Edea** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:17 am

Well, I've found and used a v 1.0 file (CRC32 is A27F1C7A, checksum OK), but it also lost save game files due to those PAR codes. Poop. Actually, this download has so many different versions of the ROM, unzipped the total size of all the .smcs is over 250 MB. I wonder why it's doing this if FF3 doesn't use checksums, since the codes themselves otherwise work just fine.

creaothceann · Post by **creaothceann** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 10:15 am

Btw. you should use NSRT (link) to remove the bad ROM dumps.

Edea · Post by **Edea** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:50 am

Apologies for bumping this, but I found out what the problem was after re-reading this, and thought providing the answer might help anyone else trying to keep saves for this game.

I looked at creaothceann mentioning SRAM again, and Gil_Hamilton stating that FF6 does not use SRAM. Well, I opened up the ZSNES and went to Config->Saves. Guess what was ticked? "SRAM Check + Save." Removed the checkmark, and all of a sudden all of the problems are gone. Not only can I now use the cheats and save, I actually got my old gamesaves back.

Thank you very much for your help; again, sorry for the bump. Is it normally supposed to be ticked?

P.S. I got rid of those ROMs, they had spyware attached to them, ick :s.

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:55 am

Edea wrote:Ugh, yeah, because I tried using some Game Genie codes instead (they write to Cxxxxx instead of 7xxxxx, I guess; I do not like GG codes)...

Genie codes don't really "write" anything, since they affect ROM addresses.
They intercept ROM calls and substitute the values from the code, essentially patching the game on the fly.

They're actually FAR more powerful than PAR codes, though they're much more difficult to create.

Edea wrote: I looked at creaothceann mentioning SRAM again, and Gil_Hamilton stating that FF6 does not use SRAM. Well, I opened up the ZSNES and went to Config->Saves. Guess what was ticked? "SRAM Check + Save." Removed the checkmark, and all of a sudden all of the problems are gone. Not only can I now use the cheats and save, I actually got my old gamesaves back.

Uhhh.... I never said FF3 doesn't use SRAM. I said it doesn't verify the SRAM's integrity very stringently.

That solution really makes very little sense, but... at least it worked, I guess.

Thank you very much for your help; again, sorry for the bump. Is it normally supposed to be ticked?

It can't... err, SHOULDN'T hurt.
It was originally added because some people had problems where ZSNES was not successfully updating the SRM file when it quit. SRAM Check + Save forces ZSNES to update the SRM file immediatly after the emulated SRAM is written to.

P.S. I got rid of those ROMs, they had spyware attached to them, ick :s.

No they didn't.
I dunno what you think happened, but it's simply not possible to attach spyware to a SNES ROM image.

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:11 am

Edea wrote:Thank you very much for your help; again, sorry for the bump. Is it normally supposed to be ticked?

No.

P.S. I got rid of those ROMs, they had spyware attached to them, ick :s.

I'm guessing you're referring to a lame romsite that purposely hacks the rom headers of all of the games.

Edea · Post by **Edea** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:21 am

Gil_Hamilton wrote: No they didn't.
I dunno what you think happened, but it's simply not possible to attach spyware to a SNES ROM image.

They were batched in a ZIP file. I didn't scan it before extraction, and the file ended up loading all sorts of horrible things onto my computer.

And yes, it was a -very- lame ROM site.

Kajuru · Post by **Kajuru** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:37 am

What about the emulator inside said package?
Never trust executables from unknown sources.