Modern Vertical Takeoff and Landing Fighter Jets

ST Dragon · Post by **ST Dragon** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:40 pm

Modern Vertical Takeoff and Landing Fighter Jets

Since I was very young, I’ve been a fan and admirer of the Harrier Fighter Jet, mainly for its unique characteristic that it can take-off and land vertically.

Harrier
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrier_Jump_Jet

http://www.strategypage.com/military_ph ... 00524.aspx

http://www.cyberheritage.org/harrier_painting.jpg

http://www.bbc.co.uk/guernsey/content/i ... 24x768.jpg

http://www.bbc.co.uk/guernsey/content/i ... 24x768.jpg

http://www.airventure.org/2005/media/im ... arrier.jpg

Seeing as to how far military aviation has developed in the past decade (F-22, Euro Fighter, Rafale & Grippen), it made me wonder of why there has not been a modern successor of the Harrier Jet or a new advanced Vertical/Takeoff and Landing Fighter Jet, with equivalent tech-specs of the previously mentioned jets?!

All I could find was this:

Vertical/Short Takeoff and Landing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical/S ... nd_Landing

So, anyone got any info on the subject?

Hyos · Post by **Hyos** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:05 pm

The STOVL/VTOL idea has been incorporated into the Joint Strike Fighter program.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Stri ... er_Program

The F-35B Lightning II will have STOVL capability, trading fuel capacity for vertical flight systems.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-35_Lightning_II

There was a STOVL variant of the competitor, the Boeing X-32, too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-32

So with the F-35, you get air-to-air combat, tactical bombing, air support, VSTOL capability, stealth and a carrier version all in one plane. Basically it will make the F-14, F-15, F-16, F-18, F-22, F-111, F-117, Harrier, Tornado, Eurofighter, Gripen and a plethora of others obsolete when it's ready.

funkyass · Post by **funkyass** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:31 pm

and the DOD hopes it doesn't flop like the F-111b program.

because it'll piss of a lot of other countries that have invested in it.

Johan_H · Post by **Johan_H** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:52 pm

Gripen, not Grippen.

ST Dragon · Post by **ST Dragon** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:45 am

Interestingly enough, after observing these 2 videos it would seem that it can do both take off and land vertically!

F35 JSF vertical take off
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xm7_PPE-8nk

JSF - Normal take off and vertical landing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dz5I8o9k6Xg

Unless these videos are from two different model variations of the F-35?!

So, to get this straight, is there a model of the F-35 that can both take off and land vertically, like the good old Harriers?

Oh, wait! There is also the V-22 Osprey, but that’s not exactly what I had in mind!

It looks more like C-130.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-22_Osprey

Now that I think about it, the closest I've seen in real life to the jets of the Raiden fighter flipping vertically in Boss fights, is the F-35 it self!

If the F-35 had two engines, it would be exactly the same as the Raiden Fighter Jet!

I wonder if the F-35 creators where fans of the Raiden Series when they conceived the idea?!

Hyos · Post by **Hyos** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:08 am

Johan_Hanberg wrote:Gripen, not Grippen.

I did not edit my post - how can it be it is written the right way now? I remember thinking about the Viggen and slipping the double letter into the Gripen name, but it seems it's gone... Wierd.

ST Dragon wrote: So, to get this straight, is there a model of the F-35 that can both take off and land vertically, like the good old Harriers?

My guess is they can, however the vertical takeoff is probably only possible without weapon load. I am also not sure about the Harriers capability of VTO with a full load, so their capabilities seem to be about the same.

ST Dragon · Post by **ST Dragon** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:09 am

The F-35 will put the US air superiority roughly 70 years ahead of other nations.
The aircraft will be faster, more manoeuvrable, stealthier and cheaper than the current F-22.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F35

X35B Joint Strike Fighter
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/400777/x3 ... e_fighter/

F35 hovering
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_GjrPvSBGXE

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:04 am

ST Dragon wrote:The F-35 will put the US air superiority roughly 70 years ahead of other nations.
The aircraft will be faster, more manoeuvrable, stealthier and cheaper than the current F-22.

That assumes we actually buy enough to replace our existing fighter fleet.
Part of the F-22's cost is there's no volume to the sales. Mass-production typically lowers costs.
With us ALREADY outgunning anyone else in the world, and with no military threat in view, it's difficult to persuade Congress to sign off on a big military spending package.

ST Dragon · Post by **ST Dragon** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:38 pm

Well, actually I copy-pasted it from another forum!

That opinion is flawed and very biased!
The F-35 while very impressive, can't compare to any modern fighter jet in a dog-fight situation, it would end in flames and as a small crater on the ground before you know it!

The F35 is the US/UK's joint cheap export plane. The whole point is they sell it to tons of other nations.

Oh, and I wouldn't claim US outgunning everyone! Russia, China and a few other nations still have vast quantities of armaments, nukes, subs, carriers and fighters waiting to be deployed.
(Su35 & Mig-35 prototypes superior to F-35 imo)

Johan_H · Post by **Johan_H** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:41 pm

Hyos wrote:
Johan_Hanberg wrote:Gripen, not Grippen.
I did not edit my post - how can it be it is written the right way now? I remember thinking about the Viggen and slipping the double letter into the Gripen name, but it seems it's gone... Wierd.

I was referring to ST Dragon's post.

Demios · Post by **Demios** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:47 am

Good old thrust vectoring.

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:35 pm

ST Dragon wrote:Well, actually I copy-pasted it from another forum!

That opinion is flawed and very biased!
The F-35 while very impressive, can't compare to any modern fighter jet in a dog-fight situation, it would end in flames and as a small crater on the ground before you know it!

The F35 is the US/UK's joint cheap export plane. The whole point is they sell it to tons of other nations.

Oh, and I wouldn't claim US outgunning everyone! Russia, China and a few other nations still have vast quantities of armaments, nukes, subs, carriers and fighters waiting to be deployed.
(Su35 & Mig-35 prototypes superior to F-35 imo)

But the F-22 can run rings around them, as I understand it.

We've got the best and most hardware, as a general rule. The few nations that have more hardware tend to cut some corners in the quality department.

Also:
GOD DAMMIT AMERICA! MAKE A BLACKBIRD REPLACEMENT!

Hyos · Post by **Hyos** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:03 am

Damn your so right. SR-71 Blackbird. It has something that makes it unbelievably special, a wonderful piece of machinery.

Tallgeese · Post by **Tallgeese** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:25 am

Also alien inspired.

I'm kidding.

ST Dragon · Post by **ST Dragon** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:44 am

Johan_Hanberg wrote:
Hyos wrote:
Johan_Hanberg wrote:Gripen, not Grippen.
I did not edit my post - how can it be it is written the right way now? I remember thinking about the Viggen and slipping the double letter into the Gripen name, but it seems it's gone... Wierd.
I was referring to ST Dragon's post.

Yes you're right!
Typo!

JAS 39 Gripen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grippen

Excellent jet, albeit expensive for its specs.

ST Dragon · Post by **ST Dragon** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:58 am

F-35 Variations:

F-35A CTOL (Conventional Takeoff Landing)
this will replace the F-16 and A-10's for the US air force.

F-35B VTOL
this will replace the AV-8B harrier and the F-18. this version will be designed for the marines and the UK royal airforce.

F-35C CV (carrier variant)
this one will be replacing the F-14's and earlier F-18's (excluding the F-18 E/F variants) for the navy, interestingly enough this will be the navy's first stealth aircraft.
it will host larger wing control surfaces to handle slower speeds during carrier landings, and it will also have an arrestor hook.

As for true VTOL status.
It's a matter of physics really. Full armament, speed & stealth are relative. If you can vertically take-off with full armament, then you can horizontally take-off with about double full & at full speed, especially if you have big wings...

I'm pretty sure the F-35 will gain a full VTOL operational status when it's released.
After a 2nd thought, one shouldn't believe the superiority of the F-35 so quickly, there was serious reliability concerns due the complex nature of pivoting engine jet, it’s significantly cheaper than the F22 for a reason, although the manufacturing process is amazingly efficient. From an air defence point of view 30 very good planes are better than 8 excellent ones.

In my opinion the F22 still has the edge in terms of air superiority, but even the F22 was outclassed in some areas by the YF-23 blackwidow (cancelled project). Stealth is great for bombing and tactical strikes but when it comes to dog fights stealth planes aren't invincible.

The F-35 (whenever it comes out), regardless technology which is incredible, it is not an A/A oriented fighter. F-35 will be like F16-18 (=multi-role), while F-22 is like F-14-15 (=A/A). In a dogfight of the same generation, A/A has a big advantage over multi-role.

In other words, in a dog-fight situation the F-35 against & the F-22 and the following Russian prototypes:
Mig-35
Sukhoi Su-47 Berkut (S-37)
Sukhoi Su-37

All that stealth and high-tech the F-35 is carrying wont mean jack-squat and it would end up in flames before you know it!

That simple!

Su-37 performing the Cobra manoeuvre.

S-37

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:44 am

ST Dragon wrote: In my opinion the F22 still has the edge in terms of air superiority, but even the F22 was outclassed in some areas by the YF-23 blackwidow (cancelled project). Stealth is great for bombing and tactical strikes but when it comes to dog fights stealth planes aren't invincible.

Yeah. I gather the YF-23 is generally considered the superior plane, but the 22 won due to politics.

Su-37 performing the Cobra manoeuvre.

X-31 performing the Mongoose maneuver(so called because mongeese eat cobras)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zKufU8c4N0