<blitzkrieg> testing, testing, 1 2

funkyass · Post by **funkyass** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:25 pm

SATA support was added in XP SP2. so you need a install cd with SP2 on it.

98/dos sees them because modern bios provide access to them via standard bios calls, which modern OS's do not use as they access the controller directly.

so, if you do not have a xp install CD with Sp2 on it, google nlite and make yourself one.

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:21 pm

odditude wrote:
Nach wrote:Also leaves room for plenty of HDs later, and not forcing you to paint yourself into settling with IDE.
Can't argue this point. The question becomes do you see yourself using more than three hard drives?

If you can, get a mobo with 8 SATA ports.

Clements · Post by **Clements** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:04 pm

I am aware that X38/X48 boards come with 6 SATA ports (some also have an additional two eSATA as well). Should be enough for most people.

Nightcrawler · Post by **Nightcrawler** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:25 pm

funkyass wrote:SATA support was added in XP SP2. so you need a install cd with SP2 on it.

98/dos sees them because modern bios provide access to them via standard bios calls, which modern OS's do not use as they access the controller directly.

so, if you do not have a xp install CD with Sp2 on it, google nlite and make yourself one.

That makes sense. The XP install I was using was in fact SP2. I'd also imagine the BIOS is responsible for allowing you being able to boot the OS CD off an SATA drive to begin with.

Post by **grinvader** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:48 am

So, life support is getting quite inadequate.

Here is the list of the stuffs I got together in a slight rush:

cpu: Intel Core i7 950
mobo: Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD4P
ramz: 2x OCZ DDR3 3 x 2 GB PC12800 Reaper Edition (7-7-7-24)
case: NZXT Whisper Mid Tower
psu: Corsair TX - 850W
hdd: 2x Seagate Barracuda LP S-ATA - 1500 GB - 32 MB
vidcard: Asus EN9800GT MATRIX/HTDI/512M
monitor: LG W2442PA-BF
dvd drive: Samsung SH-S223B
trackball: Trackman Wheel Refresh (no trackman marbles in stock D;)
crappy keyboard
crappy speakers
crappy floppy drive

For a total of ~2K euros.

I accept thoughts, advice, cookies, checks and american express.

byuu · Post by **byuu** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:50 am

... but will it be fast enough to run that IRC thing ...? :)

Post by **grinvader** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:51 am

It better. I got over 8000FPS with an almost dead horse here.

Post by **pagefault** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:00 am

I am hearing that seagate is not a good choice and you should go with the WD drives now. Thats what I hear. the Seagate has some kind of firmware issue on it with some drives.

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:25 am

I'm disappointed in the video card, because I suspect that what you spent for the 9800GT would be enough for the GTS 250... but eh whatever. It's not the best, but you'll get better support since it's part of the current gen of the hardware...

Then again, I don't want to hear you whine about your i7 core addiction.

Post by **odditude** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:45 am

12GB?

the only thing more terrifying about that is the likelihood that you actually DO have some practical usage lined up...

funkyass · Post by **funkyass** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:43 am

what are you opinions on this new fangled 80286 intel is touting now?

mudlord · Post by **mudlord** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:49 am

odditude wrote:12GB?

the only thing more terrifying about that is the likelihood that you actually DO have some practical usage lined up...

thats funny. because there is practical uses for 12GB or more >_>

Like those audio apps. Some take 3GB minimum or more.

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:03 am

funkyass wrote:what are you opinions on this new fangled 80286 intel is touting now?

I won't buy it, it's a pure snowjob.
The 80186 is infinitely superior, even if it DOESN'T have protected mode! Who wants that anyways?

Post by **odditude** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:17 am

mudlord wrote:
odditude wrote:12GB?

the only thing more terrifying about that is the likelihood that you actually DO have some practical usage lined up...
thats funny. because there is practical uses for 12GB or more >_>

Like those audio apps. Some take 3GB minimum or more.

i'm well aware that they exist - it's just that they're relatively rarefied.

i was specifically referring to the usages that grin could think of. that's what's terrifying

Post by **grinvader** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:05 am

@pagefault: Caviar greens out of stock.

Deathlike2 wrote:I'm disappointed in the video card, because I suspect that what you spent for the 9800GT would be enough for the GTS 250... but eh whatever. It's not the best, but you'll get better support since it's part of the current gen of the hardware...

Then again, I don't want to hear you whine about your i7 core addiction.

I don't follow. Disappointed ? Try using real arguments instead of emo crap. Is it a bad technical choice given the other components ? Bad drivers ? A history of turning psychotic at age 4 ? Self destructs if you don't bathe it in virgin blood every moon ?
That's the sort of info I'm looking for.

Better support is better for me. You didn't list any real advantage of the GTS250 to balance that.

Also, I already mentionned I won't need a still beating bleedsquirting heart edge card. 9800GT is likely already overkill for what I'll do.
Forget anything cash related too.

Also, what's with that 'addiction' ? I only grabbed it because there were no stocked mobos for core 2 quads with decent ddr3 support. Why should I whine ?
List the fucking downsides already.

@odditude: I do it for the lulz. Maybe.

----

Any major disfunction in the HW listed or is that fine ? I'm kinda in a hurry if you get my drift.

mudlord · Post by **mudlord** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:17 am

I don't follow. Disappointed ? Try using real arguments instead of emo crap. Is it a bad technical choice given the other components ? Bad drivers ? A history of turning psychotic at age 4 ? Self destructs if you don't bathe it in virgin blood every moon ?
That's the sort of info I'm looking for.

Better support is better for me. You didn't list any real advantage of the GTS250 to balance that.

Also, I already mentionned I won't need a still beating bleedsquirting heart edge card. 9800GT is likely already overkill for what I'll do.
Forget anything cash related too.

I'd say Deathlike meant that its a bad technical choice considering the other components.

But to me, if you just do emulation stuff and the games that are not over zealous on shaders and shit, that 9800GT is overkill.

Heck, for what I am doing, a GeForce FX 5200 would be enough. Heck, I want to sell my C2D for a P4 since I have zero need for it anymore.

byuu · Post by **byuu** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:49 am

Any major disfunction in the HW listed or is that fine ? I'm kinda in a hurry if you get my drift.

The one thing to keep in mind, is that the i7 architecture is actually a fair bit slower in raw processing power than the latest Core 2 series stuff, eg Penryn.

This is most likely because they give up a TON of L2 cache (from 3MB/core down to 256KB/core), and use new shared L3 cache instead, which is a good deal slower than L2.

Say in a raw CPU test, FPS in an emulator or compression speed, I've found a Penryn to be about ~8-10% faster when at the same clock speed as an i7.

Of course, it's much faster for memory-intensive applications, what with the onboard controller and DDR3 and such, but I find memory-bandwidth is rarely the limiting factor in most (warning: personal bias) applications.

And you probably have better future CPU upgradability with the LGA1366.

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:17 am

mudlord wrote:Heck, I want to sell my C2D for a P4 since I have zero need for it anymore.

That's not a trade I'd consider a very good idea.

The Core is cheaper to operate than a P4, since it's so much more energy-efficient. Which also makes it cooler-running, so it doesn't heat your house as much in the summer(or winter, but AC costs more than heat).

It's also going to be a serviceable system for longer, between being newer parts to start with and being a "less thermally-challenging" system.

But hey, I've been known to live off a K6/2 when there's a perfectly good Athlon in the house.

mudlord · Post by **mudlord** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:49 am

It's also going to be a serviceable system for longer, between being newer parts to start with and being a "less thermally-challenging" system.

Personally, I could not care less.

The point is to force myself to optimize more. NOT what certain developers think and say "Hey, there will be faster CPUs in 5-20 years, so fuck the old systems".

I want to think I am making a difference to society. This is my own special way, to say fuck you to the developers who think optimization is for retards and fuck you to commercialism. There is ZERO point to what I have now, so I am upgrading to something a lot more reasonable, considering my ethics.

Anyone who hates that approach can go die in a fire.

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:09 pm

grinvader wrote:
Deathlike2 wrote:I'm disappointed in the video card, because I suspect that what you spent for the 9800GT would be enough for the GTS 250... but eh whatever. It's not the best, but you'll get better support since it's part of the current gen of the hardware...

Then again, I don't want to hear you whine about your i7 core addiction.
I don't follow. Disappointed ? Try using real arguments instead of emo crap. Is it a bad technical choice given the other components ? Bad drivers ? A history of turning psychotic at age 4 ? Self destructs if you don't bathe it in virgin blood every moon ?
That's the sort of info I'm looking for.

No, just jealous of your i7 Core

.

Better support is better for me. You didn't list any real advantage of the GTS250 to balance that.

I meant driver support. All legacy NVidia cards get their drivers later than the more recent hardware (we're talking about months here). The 9800 will be classified as legacy at least one generation earlier than the GTS 250. Now if this doesn't matter to you, then you're set. I hate to think you'll be waiting for some new driver to fix some issue, only to wait a little longer than you'd like because NVidia says your SOL for a little bit. It's not guarenteed to happen to you, but hey.

byuu · Post by **byuu** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:12 pm

Gil_Hamilton wrote:That's not a trade I'd consider a very good idea.

The Core is cheaper to operate than a P4, since it's so much more energy-efficient. Which also makes it cooler-running, so it doesn't heat your house as much in the summer(or winter, but AC costs more than heat).

Yeah, if you don't need the power, the best route is to go to one of the Atom net-tops. ~30w for the entire system, and it's fanless (without the 945 chip, at least.) Even better during a power outage, a small UPS will keep it going for many hours, compared to ~10 minutes on modern desktops.

Post by **odditude** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:04 pm

Deathlike2 wrote:The 9800 will be classified as legacy at least one generation earlier than the GTS 250.

actually, they're both using the same G92 core. once you get rid of the constant renamings, the 9800GT is essentially an 8800GT, and the GTS250/9800GTX+ is essentially an 8800GTS 512MB (although the 1GB variants of the GTS250/9800GTX+ also take advantage of a die-shrink). the GTX2xx series, on the other hand, is indeed a new generation of hardware. </pedantry>

---

that being said, you are getting a significant performance boost by going with a GTS250 over a 9800GT, and the 1GB draw less power to boot in some cases. consider the prices carefully.

i'd personally wait for a wd drive to come back in stock, but i'm notoriously picky about my hardware and will wait months for a particular component.

the power supply is overkill if you don't plan on expanding (in particular, adding a second video card or going with a dual-gpu replacement in the near future). the 650W variant would be sufficient, assuming the cable lengths are the same (that case is monstrous... you're going to want LONG power leads if you plan on doing anything vaguely resembling cable management inside).

I.S.T. · Post by **I.S.T.** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:29 pm

True, they are using the same core, but they're not the same product. They're differentiated, even if it's by little pedantic shit, and the newer one is less likely to get bad support as the years go by.

Post by **grinvader** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:54 pm

odditude wrote:the power supply is overkill if you don't plan on expanding (in particular, adding a second video card or going with a dual-gpu replacement in the near future). the 650W variant would be sufficient, assuming the cable lengths are the same (that case is monstrous... you're going to want LONG power leads if you plan on doing anything vaguely resembling cable management inside).

As I already said ¬_¬ I'm not interested in multiple video cards.
More HDDs would be the only foreseeable additions, unlikely at that. You sure 650W will be enough ? That's barely more than the current 500W I got back in 2001, ffs.

About the case, it's exactly as big as my current mid tower, which is a real dwarf for the cablery inside it. SATA cables are much less bulkier, and I'll like actually having some room for once.

----

Nach pointed out that the vid card was typically way too hot without further work, which makes it a huge ass no-no on my list. What do you all advise that has decent drivers but won't end up as a massive waste of potential ?

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:08 pm

Video card demands are higher... even if you are trying to get something adequate (as in, not the fastest thing out there).

Nowadays, video cards have options to tweak the fan... for the casual users, it's the simple "use more power when needed". So, you shouldn't have to worry about heat in general unless you're actively playing something heavy.

Noone's saying that you should worry over drivers, but when you had your older system, did you care or mind that the drivers were updated infrequently because it was damned old? I'm sure you don't give a crap about performance, but if it's to fix some nasty bug (for whatever that happens to be), you'll have to wait a little longer. It can be annoying particularly if older hardware gets the SOL treatment, so if getting more recent hardware gets you essentially 1 extra year of more driver updates (give or take a couple of months), it can be worthwhile. Then again, if you don't update them frequently... you really should not care.