Help me understand why.

zennx2k3 · Post by **zennx2k3** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:58 pm

I'm running the new zsnes v1.51. I've been a long long time user of zsnes (and emulation programs) in general, and I've never really had a problem. However, I'm running this on a laptop that should be by all means capable of running at full speed.

Zsnes skips, chops, and slows to around 18/60 on average.

I've tried other versions, v-sync, triple-buffering, other resolutions, and various filters on/off, even lowering sound quality and turning it on/off

Erased the cfg file, fresh installs.

The internal refresh rate is 60Hz. Specs are:
Toshiba Tecra 9100
P4-M 1.7 Ghz
512Mb Ram
80 Gig HDD
32Mg S3 Savage DX8 compatable.
Direct x 9.0c

I can play some semi 3d intensive games (although older) just fine. And I've used way more garbage computers to play zsnes (and other emulators) just fine. Doesn't matter what ROM I use either (although some are worse than others).

Am I doomed? Am I not going to be able to take these old gems with me on the road......er, in a PLAYABLE state?

All Thanks for All Help.

Palin · Post by **Palin** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:02 am

This is a total shot in the dark, but I know laptops have been having some severe problems running emulators because they share system RAM with the video card. The way that the emulator copies data to the buffer is not friendly for slow copy speeds.

zennx2k3 · Post by **zennx2k3** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:14 am

I see, well this laptop does share the video/system memory. I could see how that would affect performance. However, my parents have a shitty old compaq PC that has an even worse onboard video with half the ram (also shared video) with an old 800mhz celeron and I can still run the emulator just fine (maybe no filters, but it gets 50-60 fps consistantly).

Any other reasons I could be having these issues and anything to resolve them? Don't have much running in the background. Win XP SP2.

Post by **odditude** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:32 am

what's your commit charge vs physical memory? (see performance tab in device manager)

you may need more memory.

however, it's likely to be some process or driver thrashing about. what's the cpu usage graph look like?

zennx2k3 · Post by **zennx2k3** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:14 am

CPU usage stays at 0-1%. Commit charge is pretty small.

Turns out my video card is actually a 16mb Savage S3, so there is no "Shared ram"

Here's my DX diag txt as well (shortened a bit).

------------------
System Information
------------------
Time of this report: 4/15/2008, 18:05:47
Machine name: TOSHIBA-BVVQEYR
Operating System: Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600) Service Pack 2 (2600.xpsp_sp2_gdr.070227-2254)
Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
System Manufacturer: TOSHIBA
System Model: TECRA 9100
BIOS: v1.60
Processor: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 Mobile CPU 1.70GHz
Memory: 510MB RAM
Page File: 365MB used, 883MB available
Windows Dir: C:\WINDOWS
DirectX Version: DirectX 9.0c (4.09.0000.0904)
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
DxDiag Version: 5.03.2600.2180 32bit Unicode

---------------
Display Devices
---------------
Card name: S3 Graphics SuperSavage/IXC
Manufacturer: S3 Graphics, Inc.
Chip type: S3 SuperSavage/IX
DAC type: S3 Graphics SDAC
Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_5333&DEV_8C2E&SUBSYS_00011179&REV_05
Display Memory: 16.0 MB
Current Mode: 1024 x 768 (32 bit) (60Hz)
Monitor: Default Monitor
Monitor Max Res:
Driver Name: S3SSav.dll
Driver Version: 6.13.0010.1289 (English)
DDI Version: 8
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
Driver Date/Size: 11/28/2002 15:58:28, 357760 bytes
WHQL Logo'd: Yes
WHQL Date Stamp: n/a
VDD: n/a
Mini VDD: s3ssavm.sys
Mini VDD Date: 11/28/2002 15:58:44, 122240 bytes
Device Identifier: {D7B75DD3-CF6E-11CF-C077-0B20A7C2CB35}
Vendor ID: 0x5333
Device ID: 0x8C2E
SubSys ID: 0x00011179
Revision ID: 0x0005
Revision ID: 0x0005
Video Accel: ModeMPEG2_C ModeMPEG2_A ModeMPEG2_D
Deinterlace Caps: n/a
Registry: OK
DDraw Status: Enabled
D3D Status: Enabled
AGP Status: Enabled
DDraw Test Result: Not run
D3D7 Test Result: Not run
D3D8 Test Result: Not run
D3D9 Test Result: Not run

Normally I'd give up by now, but I'm determined for this to run right. I love my snes lol. I appreciate the responses so far.

Also tryed a few snes9x versions. That ran even slower. So, I'm kinda perplexed. Anything else?

Thanks

Palin · Post by **Palin** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:24 am

Pulling this out of my ass again, but I still say it's the graphics card. From what I can remember of renderer discussions, the video buffer for a full screen blit is larger than 16mb.

If that's the case, your video api is doing some heroic number manipulation to get all of the pixels out of memory and onto your screen.

As always, I welcome someone more knowledgeable than myself to give a real answer.

I.S.T. · Post by **I.S.T.** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:36 am

I've gotten zsnes to run at full speed on a 16 meg video card. That is not the issue...

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:51 am

All I have to say is:
Man, S3... that takes me back.

And it's not a Savage S3. You wouldn't call it a GeForce 6800 NviDia.
Manufacturer before model. It's an S3 Savage. An S3 SuperSavage, even. Released in 2001.
Pretty nice part, given the notebook market of the time.

zennx2k3 · Post by **zennx2k3** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:02 am

Lol, yeah I guess I did word my video card wrong. But yes, like I said, some games actually run fairly well considering. It's definately not a bad laptop, and it was free on top of that. I just wish I could get zsnes (or any emulator) running correctly at this point. Hell, I'd settle for a smooth 30 fps at this point.

Anyway, no spyware, no viruses, no crazy processes.

Just a few more things here:

Legend of Zelda: 15-16 fps, jerky frame rate
Castlevania Dracula X: 12-13 fps, slow sound.
Star Fox:.........um.....yeah....

Anyway, is there a setting I'm missing. Surely the specs aren't so bad that I can't get games to at least run at a playable point with regular sound and no filtering right? Again I appreciate the replies and I'm at a loss as to what could be causing the slowdown. Especailly since I've seen PC's with half the specs running it ok. Maybe it does have something to do with the busses or pipelines. Hmmm.......

I.S.T. · Post by **I.S.T.** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:03 am

Have you checked to see if any spyware is running on it?

Rashidi · Post by **Rashidi** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:15 am

try msconfig and what process that runs at startup?

Post by **odditude** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 5:31 am

your integrated graphics do indeed use system memory, it's just allocated dynamically. otherwise windows would be telling you 512MB.

you never did answer what your commit charge is, just that it's "small." what's the peak value? if that peak passes 491520, you likely would benefit from more memory; if it passes 507904, you definitely would benefit from more memory.

and for performance that bad, it's either due to not enough memory, crappy drivers (likely with s3) or other processes.

zennx2k3 · Post by **zennx2k3** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:10 pm

Thanks for the replies guys (or gals). More memory could be needed i guess. To answer above, yes I've checked for spyware/viruses (See previous post).

Ok well, here's my Performance Tab:

CPU Usage: 0%

Commit Charge (K)
Total: 352588
Limit: 1278792
Peak: 438952

That help any?

Post by **odditude** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:28 pm

odditude wrote:if that peak passes 491520, you likely would benefit from more memory; if it passes 507904, you definitely would benefit from more memory.

paulguy · Post by **paulguy** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:33 pm

You think, since it's a laptop, it has some kind of underclocking thing to save power? Zsnes on laptops often has that problem.

zennx2k3 · Post by **zennx2k3** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 5:45 pm

I see what you're saying odd about the peak being close. I was planning on getting more memory for this thing anyway in about a week. We'll see if that helps.

Also to the last reply, I have my laptop plugged into the wall to test all these things, so the power-saver stepping doesn't apply until the battery gets low. Plus I can change those settings at any time.

Thanks guys, if you can think of anything else, let me know, in the mean time I'll let you know when I get more ram.

zennx2k3 · Post by **zennx2k3** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:58 pm

Hello again.

I now have 1 gig of ram installed in the little Toshiba beast, however, zsnes (btw i'm too stupid to learn the name of the emulator) is still running dog slow.

I'm almost ready to admit defeat, but I have one more option that I should have mentioned.

I'm running this laptop in a Novell NetWare Client environment and Oracle systems are installed as well. This at one time was a "buisness" laptop, and I guess I didn't really take into consideration that this could potentially be problem. Anyone else think that maybe this might have something to do with it?

Once again, most other programs work fine, even older 3d games. zsnes (btw i'm too stupid to learn the name of the emulator) runs in a "software" only environement as well right? There isn't some loose D3D or OGL code running around eh?

Thanks, if nothing else I'll save my roms for a more worthy mobile solution.

zennx2k3 · Post by **zennx2k3** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:30 am

*UPDATE

Completely did a fresh install of windows xp. Plenty of space, Plenty of ram.

Zsnes runs no faster than it did before.

Looks like I'm stuck unless anyone else has an idea.

cibomatto2002 · Post by **cibomatto2002** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:59 am

Check your Power Options set it to Home/Office.

Turn off Monitor Never.

Turn off Hard disks Never.

This may not help you but who knows

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:14 am

cibomatto2002 wrote:Check your Power Options set it to Home/Office.

Turn off Monitor Never.

Turn off Hard disks Never.

This may not help you but who knows

None of those options help anyone. Stop posting absolutely unapplicable suggestsions. By far, this is worse than franpa.

zennx2k3 · Post by **zennx2k3** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:20 pm

Ok last time replying and I promise I'll try to do something else constructive in this forum.

Anyway just to let you know I was trying some other emulators, and as shitty as it might be, SNEeSe runs like a champ, 1024x768, full sound, all day long at 60pfs. Now I'm not saying that it looks or runs quite like Zsnes (which is the champ), but there's no way Zsnes should be running at around ~10FPS no matter what rom OR video OR sound setting if I can get this out of another emulator no?

So, once again I ask. If I can somehow successfully emulate the SNES in another less worthy emulator, how can I not run Zsnes on at least "playable" level.

Thanks guys.

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:36 pm

It beats me really.

Try using a DR mode... or try using the Disable Power Management option and see if that helps.

zennx2k3 · Post by **zennx2k3** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:56 am

Tried all that. Thanks though, this forum is more helpful than most others I've been on.

I'll be around, thanks guys.

Kajuru · Post by **Kajuru** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:21 am

Try setting Zsnes to high priority.