[Problem] Star Fox frame rate

Davirus · Post by **Davirus** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 8:52 pm

Hi everybody
I have been using ZSNES and other emulators from a long time since I can remember I ever played star fox and never have a problem.

Recently I got a new laptop (XPS M1210) and I still playing without problems.
I left videogames for around 5months, I formated my HD around 3 times then.

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The problem

I started to play StarFox from 2 week again and I noticed it runs really slow and dump actually.
Its like runing at half of its real frame speed.

The sound its ok.
And I only have this problem with StarFox 1

Anyone have experienced this and solved ?

Im using ZSNES v1.51
1280x800 screen dimension
> Stretched
> Filter NTSC

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System Information
------------------
Time of this report: 6/7/2008, 14:47:11
Machine name: DAVID
Operating System: Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600) Service Pack 2 (2600.xpsp_sp2_gdr.070227-2254)
Language: Spanish (Regional Setting: Spanish)
System Manufacturer: Dell Inc.
System Model: MXC062
BIOS: Phoenix ROM BIOS PLUS Version 1.10 A04
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU T5600 @ 1.83GHz (2 CPUs)
Memory: 1014MB RAM
Page File: 580MB used, 2387MB available
Windows Dir: C:\WINDOWS
DirectX Version: DirectX 9.0c (4.09.0000.0904)
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
DxDiag Version: 5.03.2600.2180 32bit Unicode

---------------
Display Devices
---------------
Card name: Mobile Intel(R) 945GM Express Chipset Family
Manufacturer: Intel Corporation
Chip type: Intel(R) Calistoga Graphics Controller
DAC type: Internal
Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_27A2&SUBSYS_01D71028&REV_03
Display Memory: 224.0 MB
Current Mode: 1280 x 800 (32 bit) (60Hz)

-------------
Sound Devices
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Description: SigmaTel Audio
Default Sound Playback: Yes
Default Voice Playback: Yes

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Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 9:00 pm

Use an older version of ZSNES. Timing tweaks will make other games get out of whack.

Davirus · Post by **Davirus** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 10:06 pm

Deathlike2 wrote:Use an older version of ZSNES. Timing tweaks will make other games get out of whack.

Thanks
I tryed with the 1.42
It runs really smooth.

It should check out for the 1.51

Thanks again =3

Starman Ghost · Post by **Starman Ghost** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:24 pm

"slow and dump" lol

Post by **Agozer** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:05 am

What does it mean when something "runs dump", anyway? If it means what I think it means, "running like shit" would be more appropriate.

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:11 am

It almost sounds like a cheap babelfish translation being used.

I expect those that don't have English as their native language to get poop, crap, and shit correctly on the first go.

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:22 am

The interesting thing here is that no one pointed out that Star Fox has NEVER run correctly. It runs TOO FAST under older versions of ZSNES.

1.51's "slow and dump" is actually how the game is SUPPOSED to run.
For those that doubt... I just ran the demo loop of 1.51 alongside my RealSNES.

And then, just for kicks, I fired up 1.42. It is immediately visible as running FAR too fast.

Edit: Upon further examination: The intro sequence when you start a game is horribly out of sync in 1.42. And you can have the first boss half-dead before the boss music starts playing. How could anyone think this was running right?

Star Fox should not be played on anything LESS than 1.51.

This thread is a failure.

Post by **Agozer** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 11:41 am

Now that I think about it, I do remember some old conversations that dealt with Star Fox's timing being straight out of whack.

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 4:03 pm

Gil_Hamilton wrote:The interesting thing here is that no one pointed out that Star Fox has NEVER run correctly. It runs TOO FAST under older versions of ZSNES.

I never played the game on the original console too much, so I couldn't tell you. On the other hand, it's nice when there's no reference to the original console being made.. only a "guess" by the op.

Davirus · Post by **Davirus** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:50 pm

Gil_Hamilton wrote:The interesting thing here is that no one pointed out that Star Fox has NEVER run correctly. It runs TOO FAST under older versions of ZSNES.

This thread is a failure.

The point I think about emulation is not emulate the problems.
I see StarFox1 runs more smooth on 142 that in the actual 151.

Maybe its how the real Starfox should be played, but c`mon, if "we" can make this much better than the original SNES It would we nice dont you think?

And yes I have a real SNES and I have never experienced this slow frame rate over the real SNES as I have experienced with 151.
The emulation over StarFox on 142 is much real and soft than 151.

Aside of that, 151 is really great but I play StarFox a lot, so I back to 142 but is crash with StarFox2 so...

Post by **Agozer** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:57 pm

Davirus wrote:Maybe its how the real Starfox should be played, but c`mon, if "we" can make this much better than the original SNES It would we nice dont you think?

And yes I have a real SNES and I have never experienced this slow frame rate over the real SNES as I have experienced with 151.
The emulation over StarFox on 142 is much real and soft than 151.

Aside of that, 151 is really great but I play StarFox a lot, so I back to 142 but is crash with StarFox2 so...

There is nothing "real" in the way 1.42 emulates Star Fox.

An emulator's primary function and goal is to emulate the target hardware as accurately as possible; this means emulating the shortcomings of the actual hardware, as well. Everything outside of that is either eye candy in the form of, for example, image filters that do not tamper with the core emulation itself or, in the worst case, game-specific hacks.

ZSNES has long since dropped game-specific hacks in favor of a more accurate approach to emulation.

Davirus · Post by **Davirus** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 7:04 pm

Agozer wrote: ZSNES has long since dropped game-specific hacks in favor of a more accurate approach to emulation.

Ok, ok, I got that.

The problem is that I dont think there is somebody else who wants to play a game which have a slow frame rendering (less when is about an action game).

But I can take that.
I you said is like the original game runs, so be it.

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:10 pm

It's not a framerate issue.
1.42 isn't rendering additional frames. It's just displaying them faster.

Star Fox on the SNES runs much slower than ZSNES 1.42, making it a much twitchier game in older emulation than on a real system. It is, among other things, why the title sequence and Arwing launch sequences never complete their audio(it runs at the right speed, and the game gets too far ahead of them).

It's not better than the real thing. It's just wrong.
(Of course, I'm in favor of faithful representations over improvements. Besides which, the kind of improvement that would be needed to make Star Fox have a higher frame rate would have very high odds of breaking things)

And find your SNES right now and do comparisons. If you think it wasn't that choppy originally, then your memory is clouded by nostalgia.

Composite blurring may have made it a bit prettier(hiding some checkerboard shading and providing some antialiasing benefits), but it doesn't have a higher frame rate.