ZSNES Running Super Slow @ Anything Above 640x480

SPX · Post by **SPX** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 1:12 am

So for some reason if I run ZSNES at anything above the standard 640x480 everything becomes choppy as hell. This is on a 1.6 GHz P4, 512 MB RAM, 16 MB video RAM. I've tried pretty much every video mode for both 800x600 and 1024x768 my frame rate drops from 60 FPS to 3-4 FPS.

Any ideas on this? It's not like the PC is ancient or anything and I've heard of people running ZSNES fullscreen on 50" TVs.

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 1:26 am

If your video card is integrated to the mobo, that's where the problem lies.

SPX · Post by **SPX** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 1:37 am

Deathlike2 wrote:If your video card is integrated to the mobo, that's where the problem lies.

That's weird. It seems like I remember running ZSNES full screen back in the day on an eMachines desktop with an integrated 4 MB video card. Anyway, yeah it's integrated, but I wouldn't think the hardware requirements of running a game with a slightly larger image would tax the machine that much more.

Joe Camacho · Post by **Joe Camacho** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:53 am

Are you using any special filters?

Clements · Post by **Clements** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 12:55 pm

Using a stretch mode? Stretch has higher video requirements than a DR mode. Something as old as a TNT2 can handle stretch fairly well at full frames. Anything worse will start to struggle with it.

Post by **odditude** » Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:06 pm

post full specs, please.

without them, the assumption is you either have crappy i845 graphics or broken video drivers (or both).

SPX · Post by **SPX** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:58 am

Specs:

P4 1.6 GHz
512 MB RAM
S3 SuperSavage/IXC 1179 w/ 16 MB vid RAM

I have tried both DR and DS modes and the results are about the same. In regard to special filters, I haven't played with that at all and have everything set to the default.

Post by **odditude** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:26 am

SPX wrote:Specs:

P4 1.6 GHz
512 MB RAM
S3 SuperSavage/IXC 1179 w/ 16 MB vid RAM

I have tried both DR and DS modes and the results are about the same. In regard to special filters, I haven't played with that at all and have everything set to the default.

can i have the rest of the specs, please? motherboard, type of RAM, size of swap, etc.
is that video onboard or discrete? are the latest drivers installed?

plus, what OS/version/updates?

Deathlike2 · Post by **Deathlike2** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:41 am

It's integrated video. Savage was the huge hint here (anything that happened after the Savage 2000 by S3 is all integrated VIA-S3 crap).

stridervm · Post by **stridervm** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:10 am

Well, I did use a motherboard with that onboard video card, sadly those video cards do not have hardware based stretching as well as hardware based bilear filtering on directdraw.

This means if order to have decent performance on ZSNES, you will need to choose a resolution which is not stretched. (No "S" on resolution) Usually those resolutions also have "R" which uses the correct screen ratio. And is less stressful on that video card.

Funny that the mobos I had that has SiS 300 IGP's have hardware based stretching and bilinear filtering but not DX8 compliant but the S3 has even DX9 support but still doesn't have those features.

Post by **grinvader** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:01 am

stridervm wrote:"R" which uses the correct screen ratio

R' is not CORRECT aspect ratio.

It's KEPT aspect ratio, 8:7.

The correct aspect ratio is 4:3.

We should really make that a bit more explicit.

sweener2001 · Post by **sweener2001** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:04 am

i was confused for a long while on that. i ran 640x480 DR for years

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:17 am

sweener2001 wrote:i was confused for a long while on that. i ran 640x480 DR for years

Back in the good ol' days, I ran 640*480 R and adjusted my monitor's CONTROL KNOBS to get a full-screen aspect-correct image.

creaothceann · Post by **creaothceann** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 1:34 pm

But then the picture wouldn't be properly blurried!

Post by **grinvader** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:31 pm

If the monitor was as shitty as a NTSC tv, it would.

JILost · Post by **JILost** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 4:39 am

grinvader wrote:
stridervm wrote:"R" which uses the correct screen ratio
R' is not CORRECT aspect ratio.

It's KEPT aspect ratio, 8:7.

The correct aspect ratio is 4:3.

4:3 would mathematically be 8:6. Is the AR 8:7 because of the extra lines on the top and bottom that most TV's would cut off, or does the 8:6 include those lines? In other words, using a 4:3 monitor, would using an S mode (and using the monitor's controls to stretch the image to the edges) distort the picture vertically (by including the lines normally cut off)?

franpa · Post by **franpa** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:42 am

sweener2001 wrote:i was confused for a long while on that. i ran 640x480 DR for years

If you actually had a SNES, it should have become obvious pretty darn quick that the screen was too narrow when using a R mode.

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:01 am

JILost wrote:
grinvader wrote:
stridervm wrote:"R" which uses the correct screen ratio
R' is not CORRECT aspect ratio.

It's KEPT aspect ratio, 8:7.

The correct aspect ratio is 4:3.
4:3 would mathematically be 8:6. Is the AR 8:7 because of the extra lines on the top and bottom that most TV's would cut off, or does the 8:6 include those lines?

No. Overscan does not alter aspect ratio. A real SNES outputs non-square pixels.
Windows assumes square pixels, and most of the resolutions available under Windows will supply square pixels on a 4:3 or 16:10 monitor.

In other words, using a 4:3 monitor, would using an S mode (and using the monitor's controls to stretch the image to the edges) distort the picture vertically (by including the lines normally cut off)?

No.

Most SNES programs expect the final output to fill a (properly-adjusted) TV screen, with a bit of margin on all 4 sides that can be safely dropped to account for overscan variances between TVs.

To put it simply, games expect a 4:3 final output.

Don't believe me? You can see it with your own eyes.

First, fire up a new game of Super Metroid. Go get the morph ball. I'll wait.

...

Back? Did you notice the ball pickup was oval, not a proper circle?
Now turn Samus into a ball.
...
That rock won't roll, will it?

Next, fire up Mario Paint. Grab the circle tool, and draw a circle.
...
Ooops, that's not a circle!

Point made?

JILost · Post by **JILost** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 4:07 pm

Okay, good.

Now I just have to figure out how to make my widescreen TV not horizontally stretch 4:3 DVI input....

Is there a way to get 4:3 in windowed mode? All the windows seem to be R.

creaothceann · Post by **creaothceann** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 4:22 pm

Use a "DS W" mode. If there's none you're out of luck I guess...

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:18 pm

JILost wrote:Okay, good.

Now I just have to figure out how to make my widescreen TV not horizontally stretch 4:3 DVI input....

Is there a way to get 4:3 in windowed mode? All the windows seem to be R.

There's S windows too.
I'm set to 1280*960 DS W.

You should also be able to get a proper aspect by feeding your TV a widescreen resolution.

Custom DS F will perform aspect correction if you check "USE 4:3 RATIO" under the filters tab.

JILost · Post by **JILost** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:03 pm

Gil_Hamilton wrote:\
Custom DS F will perform aspect correction if you check "USE 4:3 RATIO" under the filters tab.

Oh, wow. I never even knew about the "force 4:3"; had I known that, this whole thing would have been moot. Thanks for pointing it out.

Incidentally, I also figured out how to make the TV not stretch horizontally, so I don't necessarily need a window anymore -- which also means I don't have to put up with my desktop wallpaper showing on the sides anymore.

Of course, this is all after realizing that the picture is better viewed with the emulator outputting the SNES's native 8:7 since the display is, in fact, a TV (which means no square pixels...oops). Ah well. Thanks for all the help, anyway.

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:17 am

JILost wrote: Of course, this is all after realizing that the picture is better viewed with the emulator outputting the SNES's native 8:7 since the display is, in fact, a TV (which means no square pixels...oops).

That only assumes you can get Windows to output the SNES' native resolution, which you usually can't.

It's also probably not the best call for a modern digital television. While a CRT doesn't HAVE a defined pixel size, and will cleanly "stretch" anything to 4:3, for an LCD/plasma/DLP/WTF,you want to feed the TV it's native resolution(unless you know for a fact your TV does better resampling than your video card).

JILost · Post by **JILost** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:32 am

Actually, I'm fortunate enough to have a widescreen, flat, HD CRT. It's not the best choice for super-high resolution stuff, but it's great for taking "low-def" things like regular TV, old system emulators, etc. and making them fill the screen without without having to worry about how bad the rescaler is.

I ended up using Custom DS F with a widescreen resolution and forcing 4:3 as suggested; it worked beautifully. Thanks again for all the help.

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:09 am

JILost wrote:Actually, I'm fortunate enough to have a widescreen, flat, HD CRT. It's not the best choice for super-high resolution stuff, but it's great for taking "low-def" things like regular TV, old system emulators, etc. and making them fill the screen without without having to worry about how bad the rescaler is.

I ended up using Custom DS F with a widescreen resolution and forcing 4:3 as suggested; it worked beautifully. Thanks again for all the help.

Mmmm, HD CRT...

I'm gonna build a time machine some day, go back, and buy an XBR960 before it's discontinued.