bsnes v0.039 released

Archived bsnes development news, feature requests and bug reports. Forum is now located at http://board.byuu.org/
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FirebrandX
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Post by FirebrandX »

kick wrote:
FirebrandX wrote:
kick wrote:
CRTs are better for browsing the net and CAD work.Very few LCD monitors have a VESA stand that can rotate the monitor 90 degrees to compensate for the "short screen".



I agree with most of your points except this one. WTF do you mean "short screen"? My LCD is just as tall as my CRT, but is wider (16:10). Are you somehow equating a rectangle as being shorter than a square? You can't really claim that out of context of the heights of both screens.


By short,I mean a modern 22" 16:9 LCD has LESS vertical screen height than a 19" (18" visible) flat CRT :(


So you were being selective in that point, which is why I disagree with it.

Anyway, I do agree as I said on the other points. I take it step further with emulation. On CRTs, you can scale ANY custom resolution to fit the screen without having to use software aspect correction. It will look virtually perfect. With LCDs, you want to stay with native res or effects like scanlines look like shit. Also in general a non-native image has issues on LCD.

One thing I will tip the hat to LCD though is the native res has shaper pixels than CRT. With CRT, there is always an analog convergence factor, no matter how expensive or well tuned the set is. With LCD, the native res is ALWAYS in flawless focus. But then again, that's because it doesn't have to focus anything at native res. Its both a benefit and a detriment at the same time.
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Post by Panzer88 »

just being able to run at any resolution (high and low) is nice so I can run my gameboy fullscreen with no scaling low res, and my crysis high res.

it's a win-win.
byuu wrote:Seriously, what kind of asshole makes an old-school 2D emulator that requires a Core 2 to get full speed? >:(
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Post by kick »

FirebrandX wrote:With CRT, there is always an analog convergence factor, no matter how expensive or well tuned the set is. With LCD, the native res is ALWAYS in flawless focus.


It's not that bad if you use an ATI graphics card (they have the best analog outputs) and a high-quality cable,but yeah - for text/spreadsheet/office work LCD displays are much better.
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Post by kick »

Another thing I hate about LCD displays is they're extremely bright.
Like the new generation of 16:9 displays - They radiate so much light that even at 0% brightness and 0% contrast it's still way too much for normal text reading (in a bright room)

With a CRT,you can decrease the brightness to ZERO (no picture displayed) if you want or increase it to supernova levels [much brighter than an LCD] when gaming to experience very realistic HDR effects.
Last edited by kick on Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:58 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Gil_Hamilton
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Post by Gil_Hamilton »

kick wrote:Another thing I hate about LCD displays is they're extremely bright.
Even at 0% brightness and 0% contrast it's way too much even in a bright room.

That's highly dependent on the specific panel.


Mine's not super-nova bright.
It's at 33% brightness, and it's quite comfortable.


Certainly, though, LCDs require a lot more research to get a half-decent one than CRTs ever did.
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Post by kick »

Gil_Hamilton wrote:Mine's not super-nova bright.
It's at 33% brightness, and it's quite comfortable.


You probably have an older 16:10 display :)
(please read my previous post again)
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Verdauga Greeneyes
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Post by Verdauga Greeneyes »

Looks like I've spawned some discussion. For the record, I realize what advantages CRT monitors have, but the only people who actually know about them and have a CRT monitor good enough that it actually -is- better than current LCDs aren't going to be running at 1280x1024, the only popular 5:4 resolution. They'd run it at 1600x1200 or 2048x1536, as I have in the past.
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Post by franpa »

I run mine at 1280x960, double that of 640x480...
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Post by blackmyst »

At the lanparty I went to the other day, my friend was sitting right next to me with his new expensive ass high quality lcd and me with my old-ish plain crt. We played some L4D and decided to turn off the lights. His screen looked like a grey washed out mess (as did everybody else's who had an lcd for that matter). On mine, the colors were great and the black shadows were real black. He was pretty amazed, and that says a lot considering he's an lcd nut.

Things are different with the lights on of course, but since I like to watch movies and play games in the dark (especially ones that just scream for it like L4D), there is no way I'm going to switch anytime soon.
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Post by Haneda »

Things are different with the lights on of course, but since I like to watch movies and play games in the dark (especially ones that just scream for it like L4D), there is no way I'm going to switch anytime soon.

My LCD isn't washed out. Blacks are black. Whites are white.
And it didn't cost me a huge pile of trees either; it's an older model too. No motion blur either.

It's a 26" Samsung model. In the past, I'd have stuck with CRT, but LCD's are great nowa days.

That said, are you talking about the 360 or PC version of L4D?
Last edited by Haneda on Sat Feb 28, 2009 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
diminish
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Post by diminish »

Unfortunately, CRTs degrade over time visibly.
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Post by kick »

diminish wrote:Unfortunately, CRTs degrade over time visibly.


Depends on the quality/brand of the monitor and if it has hardware to compensate for this.

You'll start to see dead pixels on an LCD much sooner than you notice degradation on a CRT monitor.
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Post by kick »

`double post*
Last edited by kick on Sat Feb 28, 2009 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by kick »

Haneda wrote:My LCD isn't washed out. Blacks are black. Whites are white.
And it didn't cost me a huge pile of trees either; it's an older model too. No motion blur either.

It's a 26" Samsung model. In the past, I'd have stuck with CRT, but LCD's are great nowa days.


Yeah,they're close to real black but only for a short time after power on. Leave the monitor on for a few hours and then you'll see a huge difference: depending on the type of the panel,blacks will get a bluish tint, turn into light gray or get a crappy greenish hue.
Last edited by kick on Sat Feb 28, 2009 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by kick »

Verdauga Greeneyes wrote:but the only people who actually know about them and have a CRT monitor good enough that it actually -is- better than current LCDs aren't going to be running at 1280x1024, the only popular 5:4 resolution.


That resolution *is* useful in some cases: old PC games sometimes don't have the 1280x960 option and 1280x1024 is the highest possible one (i.e. Sonic games for the PC).
You can run them at 1280x1024 and squash the screen with the manual controls to compensate for the wrong pixel aspect.
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blackmyst
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Post by blackmyst »

Haneda wrote:
Things are different with the lights on of course, but since I like to watch movies and play games in the dark (especially ones that just scream for it like L4D), there is no way I'm going to switch anytime soon.

My LCD isn't washed out. Blacks are black. Whites are white.
And it didn't cost me a huge pile of trees either; it's an older model too. No motion blur either.

It's a 26" Samsung model. In the past, I'd have stuck with CRT, but LCD's are great nowa days.

That said, are you talking about the 360 or PC version of L4D?


PC, why

And I'd like to see the screen you're talking about, I've never seen an lcd do proper black in low light conditions ever, and I've seen a lot. My friend's is hella expensive with all the latest tech, and if his can't do it, I doubt your "older model" can.
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kick
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Post by kick »

My LCD isn't washed out. Blacks are black.


Only possible if it has LED backlighting.
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Haneda
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Post by Haneda »

kick wrote:
Haneda wrote:My LCD isn't washed out. Blacks are black. Whites are white.
And it didn't cost me a huge pile of trees either; it's an older model too. No motion blur either.

It's a 26" Samsung model. In the past, I'd have stuck with CRT, but LCD's are great nowa days.


Yeah,they're close to real black but only for a short time after power on. Leave the monitor on for a few hours and then you'll see a huge difference: depending on the type of the panel,blacks will get a bluish tint, turn into light gray or get a crappy greenish hue.

Nope, I frequently leave mine on for more than a few hours (I play a lot of GTA4 online), and I never notice any change.

And I'd like to see the screen you're talking about, I've never seen an lcd do proper black in low light conditions ever, and I've seen a lot. My friend's is hella expensive with all the latest tech, and if his can't do it, I doubt your "older model" can.

Sure
Image
Cameras are very bad at taking pictures of any sort of display monitor; the blacks you see here are actually blacker, you'd have to be physically next to me looking at my monitor with your naked eye to fully believe me. I'm currently looking at my desktop and it looks extremely black as far as I'm concerned.

This isn't solely a PC monitor. It's actually an LCD TV; it has VGA, HDMI, Component, S-Video, RGB, AV SCART and composite inputs. This image is one of my PC desktop (VGA).

Only possible if it has LED backlighting.

Then my monitor must have LED backlighting, because blacks sure do look very black on my display.

PC, why

Just asking, since if you answered 360, I would assume that your friend was using a component cable; colours can appear quite washed out there, in comparison to via HDMI using a full colour range.
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Post by kick »

What's the model # of your Samsung display?
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Post by kick »

That's not a true black level test.

Try this one: Make a new .PNG image in MS Paint at the native resolution of your monitor.Use the color fill tool to paint the whole image black (#000000) and save it on your HDD.
Open it in Opera and select view->fullscreen
Now take a screenshot of your monitor.
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Haneda
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Post by Haneda »

kick wrote:What's the model # of your Samsung display?

Looking at the nice little sticker at the back of the display, here is what I see:

Model: LE26A456C2D
Model code: LE26A456C2DXXU
Type Number: LE26A456
Serial Number: 72823HJQ905490A
Verdauga Greeneyes
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Post by Verdauga Greeneyes »

kick wrote:That resolution *is* useful in some cases:

I'm not saying it isn't useful -sometimes-, but you don't want to use it all the time. Of course, try telling that to someone who isn't tech-savvy. The concept isn't that hard to explain, but I don't think people ever really think about it - I certainly didn't back in the day. The only reason I'm suggesting we assume square pixels now is because LCDs are so widespread now that the only CRTs still in use are either good enough to do 1600x1200 (at least), or are attached to crappy old computers that can't run bsnes. (I've said this before, but I wanted to reiterate)
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Post by kick »

The model # is enough.Delete the rest in your post.
Last edited by kick on Sat Feb 28, 2009 7:26 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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kick
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Post by kick »

Is this your display:

http://www.samsung.com/uk/consumer/deta ... A456C2DXXU

Looks like a 768p LCD TV,not a computer monitor. It has a normal CCFL backlight.

LCD TVs are different kind of beast. They have higher-quality panels, intelligent dynamic contrast and additional image processing chips.
Last edited by kick on Sat Feb 28, 2009 7:48 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Post by doktor_kris »

kick wrote:It's a 768p LCD TV,not a computer monitor.

Haneda wrote:This isn't solely a PC monitor. It's actually an LCD TV; it has VGA, HDMI, Component, S-Video, RGB, AV SCART and composite inputs. This image is one of my PC desktop (VGA).
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