Windows 7 versions...

Place to talk about all that new hardware and decaying software you have.

Moderator: General Mods

Gil_Hamilton
Buzzkill Gil
Posts: 4267
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:14 pm

Re: Windows 7 versions...

Post by Gil_Hamilton »

Speaking of... I was asked about that in IRC, so I want to state for the record that I'm not the one that called your ISP, nor do I know who did.
Squall_Leonhart wrote:
You have your 2s, 4s, 8s, 16s, 32s, 64s, and 128s(crash course in binary counting!). But no 1s.
DirectInput represents all bits, not just powers of 2 in an axis.


KHDownloads
mudlord88
Lurker
Posts: 115
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:43 am

Re: Windows 7 versions...

Post by mudlord88 »

But it still most likely was one of your "friends"........... :?
Then again, tons of people want me dead too....

* People from here
* byuu
* exophase
* people from ngemu
* people from emutalk
* people from some IRCs

need I go on?
I.S.T.
Zealot
Posts: 1325
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:03 am

Re: Windows 7 versions...

Post by I.S.T. »

You pissed off Exophase? Wow.

Sorry you got your ISP yelling at ya, mudlord.
mudlord88
Lurker
Posts: 115
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:43 am

Re: Windows 7 versions...

Post by mudlord88 »

Long story short....
I leaked the existance of his DS emulator. He got pissed off with that and banned me for eternity from the #mednafen IRC

Sorry you got your ISP yelling at ya, mudlord.


Its fine, I just have to be 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000x more cautious than I used to be about who I can talk to.
Or I can switch ISPs, so then I don't have to be as paranoid.
Gil_Hamilton
Buzzkill Gil
Posts: 4267
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:14 pm

Re: Windows 7 versions...

Post by Gil_Hamilton »

mudlord88 wrote:But it still most likely was one of your "friends"........... :?

Like I said, I have no idea who it was.
It was not requested, and if I knew who was responsible I'd verbally slap them upside the head for being stupid.
I was completely uninvolved. The full extent of my knowledge of the situation is that Kode54 thought I did it.




And while we're dredging the cross-site drama out...
I still think that making an SNES9x-mobile fork is a better solution than locking the main code base to a requirement of "runs playably on a DS". For both sides of the fork.

I was not saying that lower-end hardware is an invalid target, just that it shouldn't be the ONLY target.
SNES9x-mobile would gain a speed-focused codebase, with an explicit mandate in the name that it was for low-power devices.
SNES9x would gain... well, okay, I guess all they really gain is a lack of complaints about speed from the people that want SNES9x-mobile.


And my bias towards "unneeded accuracy" in my personal usage has very little to do with sleeping with byuu.

There's two major concerns.
1. I have obscure tastes.
I can't count on a less-accurate emulator with hacks to make ends meet to run the games I want to play. More than once, that unneeded accuracy has been needed for my usage, so I gravitate towards the most accurate emulator that I can actually run.

2. I have a strong interest in gaming history.
I'm greatly disturbed when I see regression bugs filed on emulation improvements because people think prior inaccuracies in the emulation are how the game is supposed to work. A near-perfectly accurate emulator NEEDS to exist, for historical reasons if nothing else. The hardware won't last forever, and already most gamers play SNES on emulation instead of original consoles.
As more people who no longer own, or never owned, an SNES turn to emulation, there becomes an increasing NEED for an emulator we can point to and say "This is how the SNES actually works, this is how choppy Star Fox actually is, and this is how slow Super Bomberman actually is."

Even if it's not the program people are using for their day-to-day play, it's there for reference and the odd obscure broken title.
Heck, it can even benefit other emulation authors. As many of their users have limited access to an extensive SNES library for debugging, they can crosscheck bug reports against bsnes instead. If it breaks there too, it's PROBABLY a bug in the game, not the emulator, and they can avoid chasing a red herring. If it works in bsnes, it's PROBABLY a bug in the emulation and they can set about trying to either fix it or hack around it.
It's not as good as checking against an actual console, but it's closer than anything else and far easier.


I generally believe that there's room for emulators at a wide variety of performance and accuracy targets.
The fact that I personally run bsnes does not in any way mean I think it's the ONLY SNES emulator that should exist. I don't even think it's the only one you should use if you can(I suspect it would be very bad for battery life on a laptop). I don't even think a less-accurate emulator that focuses on speed and uses hacks to get games working right has no place.
I don't really see where this either/or mentality comes from.

I disdain emulators like NESticle because they fill a niche that doesn't currently exist. They're targeted to PCs of such low specs that they are largely relegated to hobbyists that are maintaining old hardware for fun, not as their primary computer. And they don't run on other platforms, so they're of no use to the portable market.
It's not solely because they are quite inaccurate emulators.


I hope this clarifies my stance and outlook and we can bury the hatchet in a hole instead of a body.
Squall_Leonhart wrote:
You have your 2s, 4s, 8s, 16s, 32s, 64s, and 128s(crash course in binary counting!). But no 1s.
DirectInput represents all bits, not just powers of 2 in an axis.


KHDownloads
kode54
Zealot
Posts: 1140
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2004 3:31 am
Contact:

Re: Windows 7 versions...

Post by kode54 »

I only asked you if you did it because you were the only other affected person, and byuu denied doing it. Then again, anybody could have done it after byuu posted mudlord's IP address publicly. Then the topic was deleted, so the subject dropped.

Yeah, a mobile port sounds like a good idea. Possibly also useful for console ports. I was also not aware that the speed hacks employed actually broke anything. I do know the lack of that mid-scanline IRQ change feature will affect two games, but that doesn't seem to be important enough to console porters for a 20fps drop in performance.
adventure_of_link
Locksmith of Hyrule
Posts: 3634
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2004 7:49 am
Location: 255.255.255.255
Contact:

Re: Windows 7 versions...

Post by adventure_of_link »

and to get this back on track, I've ran all kinds of 32-bit programs (Avira anti-vir, Firefox, Chrome, Project64, UT99, etc) with no problem on windows 7 64 bit edition :)

One thing I don't get is how come BSNES runs half-assed on this laptop. by byuu's suggestings and people having multi-core CPUs these days, it should FLY. yet I only get like 20-30 fps in Super Mario World. WTF :?
Image
<Nach> so why don't the two of you get your own room and leave us alone with this stupidity of yours?
NSRT here.
kode54
Zealot
Posts: 1140
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2004 3:31 am
Contact:

Re: Windows 7 versions...

Post by kode54 »

Don't run the 64-bit build he provides, it's guaranteed to be the "accuracy" profile and therefore slow. Either use his 32-bit build, or seek out someone else's binaries, so you'll know which profile you're using.

Also, multi-core has nothing to do with the performance of bsnes. There were a few versions where HQ2x was able to take advantage of multiple cores, but that no longer applies. The emulator core itself has always been single core, so the only thing that matters is your processor's per-thread performance capability.
adventure_of_link
Locksmith of Hyrule
Posts: 3634
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2004 7:49 am
Location: 255.255.255.255
Contact:

Re: Windows 7 versions...

Post by adventure_of_link »

kode54 wrote:Don't run the 64-bit build he provides, it's guaranteed to be the "accuracy" profile and therefore slow. Either use his 32-bit build, or seek out someone else's binaries, so you'll know which profile you're using.

THAT certainly explains everything.. you see, I got the 64-bit build to take advantage of the fact that I have a 64-bit OS.. only this is the super accurate one. *sigh* thanks kode

kode54 wrote:Also, multi-core has nothing to do with the performance of bsnes. There were a few versions where HQ2x was able to take advantage of multiple cores, but that no longer applies. The emulator core itself has always been single core, so the only thing that matters is your processor's per-thread performance capability.

Gotcha. thanks again :)
Image
<Nach> so why don't the two of you get your own room and leave us alone with this stupidity of yours?
NSRT here.
kode54
Zealot
Posts: 1140
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2004 3:31 am
Contact:

Re: Windows 7 versions...

Post by kode54 »

Other users make 64-bit builds of the compatibility and also performance cores.
Gil_Hamilton
Buzzkill Gil
Posts: 4267
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:14 pm

Re: Windows 7 versions...

Post by Gil_Hamilton »

kode54 wrote:I only asked you if you did it because you were the only other affected person, and byuu denied doing it. Then again, anybody could have done it after byuu posted mudlord's IP address publicly. Then the topic was deleted, so the subject dropped.

Yeah, in that context, it made sense.
It's still the entirety of my knowledge of the situation. I never even saw the IP address.


Yeah, a mobile port sounds like a good idea. Possibly also useful for console ports. I was also not aware that the speed hacks employed actually broke anything. I do know the lack of that mid-scanline IRQ change feature will affect two games, but that doesn't seem to be important enough to console porters for a 20fps drop in performance.

I can't say for sure either way. But I've been on the receiving end of "fixed big game, broke game no one cares about" two or three times, which is two or three too many.
Squall_Leonhart wrote:
You have your 2s, 4s, 8s, 16s, 32s, 64s, and 128s(crash course in binary counting!). But no 1s.
DirectInput represents all bits, not just powers of 2 in an axis.


KHDownloads
mudlord88
Lurker
Posts: 115
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:43 am

Re: Windows 7 versions...

Post by mudlord88 »

More than once, that unneeded accuracy has been needed for my usage, so I gravitate towards the most accurate emulator that I can actually run.


So subcycle accuracy is warranted, and needed? Even if it only benefits 1 title, with a massive performance loss? And even if cycle accuracy is enough for that 1 title, thats not good enough?

And lets not stop there! Instead of dot rendering like byuu has now, lets add subpixel rendering! Sure, that gives a massive performance hit, but who gives a fuck.

Heck, it can even benefit other emulation authors.


How is code documentation?
Its not.

I prefer up to date manuals or articles than some poxy emulator done by a OCD driven maniac, which means useless C++ features must be used. Which limits portability to some compilers. And lets not forget the constant reinventing of the wheel, with rewriting the emulator CONSTANTLY to use said new C++ features.

And MAME was meant to be "documentation" too, yet the code can only be understood by other MAMEdevs due to its structure (ie, its driver framework). How conveniant..........not. That said, I see the point of a emulator that could be used as a backup for a debugger system for *other* emulators.

I generally believe that there's room for emulators at a wide variety of performance and accuracy targets.


The general majority of byuu's legion doesn't seem that way. Its either thier own way, or the highway.

I hope this clarifies my stance and outlook and we can bury the hatchet in a hole instead of a body.


Yes, it clarifies your stance.
However, I sincerely doubt you want to do the second thing you said. I have to wonder, why? What good would that amount to?
Gil_Hamilton
Buzzkill Gil
Posts: 4267
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:14 pm

Re: Windows 7 versions...

Post by Gil_Hamilton »

mudlord88 wrote:
More than once, that unneeded accuracy has been needed for my usage, so I gravitate towards the most accurate emulator that I can actually run.


So subcycle accuracy is warranted, and needed? Even if it only benefits 1 title, with a massive performance loss? And even if cycle accuracy is enough for that 1 title, thats not good enough?

As a development platform, yes.
It needs to be as close to a real SNES as possible.

I admit I seek out what are most likely meaningless amounts of precision for my day-to-day usage.

Heck, it can even benefit other emulation authors.


How is code documentation?
Its not.

I prefer up to date manuals or articles than some poxy emulator done by a OCD driven maniac, which means useless C++ features must be used. Which limits portability to some compilers. And lets not forget the constant reinventing of the wheel, with rewriting the emulator CONSTANTLY to use said new C++ features.

And MAME was meant to be "documentation" too, yet the code can only be understood by other MAMEdevs due to its structure (ie, its driver framework). How conveniant..........not. That said, I see the point of a emulator that could be used as a backup for a debugger system for *other* emulators.

Did I say one word about documentation? I was thinking primarily about the bug report issue.
However, while no substitute for clear english(I'M A US-CENTRIC RACIST!) documentation, code substituting for documentation is at least marginally better than no documentation at all.

And while in general, it would be better to see behavior verified against a real system, the practicalities of the matter make verifying against another emulator far more likely, and it may as well be an emulator that is entirely too accurate(next step: emulation of the garbage data in RAM after power-on! The Mario All-Stars debug codeglitch lives again!).

I generally believe that there's room for emulators at a wide variety of performance and accuracy targets.


The general majority of byuu's legion doesn't seem that way. Its either thier own way, or the highway.

Fortunately, I am not one for following the herd. Not even a small niche herd.

I hope this clarifies my stance and outlook and we can bury the hatchet in a hole instead of a body.


Yes, it clarifies your stance.
However, I sincerely doubt you want to do the second thing you said. I have to wonder, why? What good would that amount to?

Well, can we hang the hatchet up in a climate-controlled garage for a while, at least?
Squall_Leonhart wrote:
You have your 2s, 4s, 8s, 16s, 32s, 64s, and 128s(crash course in binary counting!). But no 1s.
DirectInput represents all bits, not just powers of 2 in an axis.


KHDownloads
Scarlett1RaS
Rookie
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:29 am

Re: Windows 7 versions...

Post by Scarlett1RaS »

Yeah, I run Windows 7 64bit but with the combination of an ATI card some real old PC games don't run at all.
mudlord88
Lurker
Posts: 115
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:43 am

Re: Windows 7 versions...

Post by mudlord88 »

they need patching to work
though some would rather they make a windows > windows emulator.
lordmissus
Ignorant Child
Posts: 326
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:10 pm
Location: 1984

Re: Windows 7 versions...

Post by lordmissus »

mudlord88 wrote:Oh the irony, 30 bit color and colorblind?

The extra 6 bits are all shades of brown. ;)

Also, Debian Linux ftw. Or slackware. Gentoo. Arch. Puppy. Sabayon. Mint.
All are excellent.

Windows is... lol.

-- i suck --

What I have seen of the Byuu community, when I was an active member there, was that most people are actually in their own minds.

Byuu and D-- are completely different. Most of the members have their own way of thinking, and they get into constant arguments. Behind the scenes, there is anarchy.

The craziest one is actually D--, but byuu.

-- i suck --

mudlord88 wrote:But it still most likely was one of your "friends"........... :?
Then again, tons of people want me dead too....

* People from here
* byuu
* exophase
* people from ngemu
* people from emutalk
* people from some IRCs

need I go on?



I still like you, believe it or not. Despite our 'fallout'.

-- i suck

Gil_Hamilton wrote:
I.S.T. wrote::| We really need to do this, guys? Really?

I was pretty much done.
Long as mudlord doesn't run over me with a car, I'm happy.

Car ?

He'll install a virus on your heart monitor when you are in hospital, that shuts off your life support. Mudlord is far more creative than simply bulldozing his enemies.

-- i suck

If you have relatives in the automotive industry, be careful.

The robots will become sentient, and hold their daughters ransom.

!

-- i still suck

Servus
Konbanwa

-- yes i do

Does anyone else her use Tor ?
Gil_Hamilton
Buzzkill Gil
Posts: 4267
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:14 pm

Re: Windows 7 versions...

Post by Gil_Hamilton »

You bumped a six-month dead thread for that retarded dribble?
Squall_Leonhart wrote:
You have your 2s, 4s, 8s, 16s, 32s, 64s, and 128s(crash course in binary counting!). But no 1s.
DirectInput represents all bits, not just powers of 2 in an axis.


KHDownloads
lordmissus
Ignorant Child
Posts: 326
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:10 pm
Location: 1984

Re: Windows 7 versions...

Post by lordmissus »

No, I did not see the dat. Actually, I don't know why I came back... temporary lapse of judgment, totally my fault.

-- hurr

*date
Post Reply