PSX vs Saturn for 2D games?

Feel free to discuss anything gaming related.

Moderator: General Mods

blackmyst
Zealot
Posts: 1147
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 8:36 pm
Location: Place.

PSX vs Saturn for 2D games?

Post by blackmyst »

I've always heard that the Saturn was more capable for 2D games than the Playstation. Anyone know how this translates in practice? Like, the original Rayman for example, is the Saturn version the best one? I seem to remember it coming out on that console first, would this mean the PSX version was downported, with cut corners? If I'm wrong and it was made for PSX in the first place then this wouldn't be an issue of course. What about other 2D games?
Procrastination.
Hard Work Often Pays Off After Time, but Laziness Always Pays Off Now.
Gil_Hamilton
Buzzkill Gil
Posts: 4267
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:14 pm

Re: PSX vs Saturn for 2D games?

Post by Gil_Hamilton »

I suspect it has more to do with the original target platform than anything else.

That said, the fact that the Saturn doesn't dither damn near everything it outputs to hell and back probably helps it a lot right there.
Squall_Leonhart wrote:
You have your 2s, 4s, 8s, 16s, 32s, 64s, and 128s(crash course in binary counting!). But no 1s.
DirectInput represents all bits, not just powers of 2 in an axis.


KHDownloads
kode54
Zealot
Posts: 1140
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2004 3:31 am
Contact:

Re: PSX vs Saturn for 2D games?

Post by kode54 »

Gil_Hamilton wrote:That said, the fact that the Saturn doesn't dither damn near everything it outputs to hell and back probably helps it a lot right there.

Yes, but it does have this feature where lots of games will use checkerboard dithering instead of 50% blending.
Gil_Hamilton
Buzzkill Gil
Posts: 4267
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:14 pm

Re: PSX vs Saturn for 2D games?

Post by Gil_Hamilton »

Eh, ya win some, ya lose some.
Squall_Leonhart wrote:
You have your 2s, 4s, 8s, 16s, 32s, 64s, and 128s(crash course in binary counting!). But no 1s.
DirectInput represents all bits, not just powers of 2 in an axis.


KHDownloads
blackmyst
Zealot
Posts: 1147
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 8:36 pm
Location: Place.

Re: PSX vs Saturn for 2D games?

Post by blackmyst »

kode54 wrote:
Gil_Hamilton wrote:That said, the fact that the Saturn doesn't dither damn near everything it outputs to hell and back probably helps it a lot right there.

Yes, but it does have this feature where lots of games will use checkerboard dithering instead of 50% blending.


Oh I remember reading something about how it actually had proper transparency for 2D mode, and some devs used this in some way to hack in actual transparency for 3D games (ninja:shadow of darkness was mentioned using this trick for water rendering).
Procrastination.
Hard Work Often Pays Off After Time, but Laziness Always Pays Off Now.
kode54
Zealot
Posts: 1140
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2004 3:31 am
Contact:

Re: PSX vs Saturn for 2D games?

Post by kode54 »

It does have actual transparency, but it's apparently six times slower than the checkerboard mesh shit. And also prone to disgusting errors as you attempt to layer multiple sprite-sprite blends.
grinvader
ZSNES Shake Shake Prinny
Posts: 5622
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2004 4:15 pm
Location: PAL50, dood !

Re: PSX vs Saturn for 2D games?

Post by grinvader »

The only reason you want a saturn for is NitM Maria mode.


Everything else is a lie.
皆黙って俺について来い!!

Code: Select all

<jmr> bsnes has the most accurate wiki page but it takes forever to load (or something)

Pantheon: Gideon Zhi | CaitSith2 | Nach | kode54
Gil_Hamilton
Buzzkill Gil
Posts: 4267
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:14 pm

Re: PSX vs Saturn for 2D games?

Post by Gil_Hamilton »

grinvader wrote:The only reason you want a saturn for is NitM Maria mode.


Everything else is a lie.

Panzer Dragoons?
Albert Odyssey?
Virtual On(if you can find/build some twin sticks)?


Also, you can play Maria on the PSPort of SotN(not the one in the online store, the one that's included as a bonus on Dracula X Chronicles). It's not all it's cracked up to be.
Squall_Leonhart wrote:
You have your 2s, 4s, 8s, 16s, 32s, 64s, and 128s(crash course in binary counting!). But no 1s.
DirectInput represents all bits, not just powers of 2 in an axis.


KHDownloads
grinvader
ZSNES Shake Shake Prinny
Posts: 5622
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2004 4:15 pm
Location: PAL50, dood !

Re: PSX vs Saturn for 2D games?

Post by grinvader »

A liiiiiieeeeee
皆黙って俺について来い!!

Code: Select all

<jmr> bsnes has the most accurate wiki page but it takes forever to load (or something)

Pantheon: Gideon Zhi | CaitSith2 | Nach | kode54
Gil_Hamilton
Buzzkill Gil
Posts: 4267
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:14 pm

Re: PSX vs Saturn for 2D games?

Post by Gil_Hamilton »

Stop being such a Sega hater, you gaystation fanboy!11
Squall_Leonhart wrote:
You have your 2s, 4s, 8s, 16s, 32s, 64s, and 128s(crash course in binary counting!). But no 1s.
DirectInput represents all bits, not just powers of 2 in an axis.


KHDownloads
odditude
Official tech support dood
Posts: 2106
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:57 am

Re: PSX vs Saturn for 2D games?

Post by odditude »

Gil_Hamilton wrote:Also, you can play Maria on the PSPort of SotN(not the one in the online store, the one that's included as a bonus on Dracula X Chronicles). It's not all it's cracked up to be.
From what I understand, the PSP Maria != Saturn Maria. I haven't played the Saturn version, but PSP Maria is like Rondo Maria.
Why yes, my shift key *IS* broken.
grinvader
ZSNES Shake Shake Prinny
Posts: 5622
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2004 4:15 pm
Location: PAL50, dood !

Re: PSX vs Saturn for 2D games?

Post by grinvader »

Gil_Hamilton wrote:Stop being such a Sega hater, you gaystation fanboy!11

tee-hee-hee, no such thing.

Honest, sony and sega stand about equal for me. I'm a nintendo fanboi first and foremost.
I also have way more sega games than any hater would have
and not enough gay shit to get the gaystation trophy :p
皆黙って俺について来い!!

Code: Select all

<jmr> bsnes has the most accurate wiki page but it takes forever to load (or something)

Pantheon: Gideon Zhi | CaitSith2 | Nach | kode54
blackmyst
Zealot
Posts: 1147
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 8:36 pm
Location: Place.

Re: PSX vs Saturn for 2D games?

Post by blackmyst »

lol D:

ok but seriously guys. SERIOUSLY

I guess all that stuff about the saturn being so great for 2D was kinda bullshit? Or just something that could've been true in theory but no developer ever ended up doing anything to bring out the potential because of the drawbacks? Sounds like there's no reason to think any PSX versions of multiplatform games were worse than their saturn counterparts in any way. Except for the lack of marianess.
Procrastination.
Hard Work Often Pays Off After Time, but Laziness Always Pays Off Now.
odditude
Official tech support dood
Posts: 2106
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:57 am

Re: PSX vs Saturn for 2D games?

Post by odditude »

saturn versions of capcom 2d fighters were generally superior.
Why yes, my shift key *IS* broken.
Gil_Hamilton
Buzzkill Gil
Posts: 4267
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:14 pm

Re: PSX vs Saturn for 2D games?

Post by Gil_Hamilton »

Yeah. Saturn's biggest advantage was it had twice the RAM and you could add more. The Capcom fighters were RAM hungry due to lots of sprites.


Also, Saturn got the only port I know of of the arcade D&D games. Which were pretty fun.
Squall_Leonhart wrote:
You have your 2s, 4s, 8s, 16s, 32s, 64s, and 128s(crash course in binary counting!). But no 1s.
DirectInput represents all bits, not just powers of 2 in an axis.


KHDownloads
odditude
Official tech support dood
Posts: 2106
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:57 am

Re: PSX vs Saturn for 2D games?

Post by odditude »

still are.

FIYABOWL!
Why yes, my shift key *IS* broken.
Gil_Hamilton
Buzzkill Gil
Posts: 4267
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:14 pm

Re: PSX vs Saturn for 2D games?

Post by Gil_Hamilton »

odditude wrote:still are.

FIYABOWL!

DRAGON SLAAAAAAAAAAAAVE!


I win.
Squall_Leonhart wrote:
You have your 2s, 4s, 8s, 16s, 32s, 64s, and 128s(crash course in binary counting!). But no 1s.
DirectInput represents all bits, not just powers of 2 in an axis.


KHDownloads
Yuber
Trooper
Posts: 417
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:24 pm

Re: PSX vs Saturn for 2D games?

Post by Yuber »

Dodanpachi for the psx was a much better arcade port than the Saturn version, but that's probably because the Saturn was harder to program for and the port was rushed. Generally speaking though the Saturn kicks the Playstation's ass in 2-d games, especially due to the 1 and 4 meg RAM carts. X-men VS Street Fighter and MSH vs SF on psx are absolute shit, while the Japanese Saturn releases with the 4 meg RAM cart look exactly like the arcade versions(and I play the arcade versions all the time) with hardly any loading at all due to the cart picking up lots of the slack. Vampire Savior on the Saturn with the same RAM cart is absolutely gorgeous, and the psx just can't handle beautiful 2-d games like that without cutting ridiculous amounts of animation. There's not even any slowdown in the Saturn versions of the more advanced CPS2 games and from watching youtube footage, I can' t even tell the difference between the SS and arcade versions a lot of the time due to the lack of loading with the cart and 100% flawless animation as far as I can tell.

The psx was much easier to program for, and games like Street Fighter Alpha 3 are pretty impressive on the psx considering the hardware limitations. Also, even though the psx port of JoJo's Bizarre Adventure was butchered, the amount of animation cut wasn't nearly as bad as I expected. The new JoJo anime is fucking awesome btw.

I bet the Saturn with the 4 meg RAM cart could've pulled off SF3 with just a little bit of the animation cut, but I don't know enough about the hardware to really analyze that hypothesis. The Dreamcast was a 2-d beast and did 3rd strike Flawlessly, but the Saturn controller is my favorite controller of all time and I really don't know what Sega was thinking with the DC pad although I can still play fighters with it somewhat. I'm more accustomed to pads than sticks, so I play 2d fighters and shmups with a used Saturn pad plus one of those Mayflash PS2/SS/N64 adapters, and it works great without any noticeable input lag. Best controller I've ever used period. I mostly love my PSX because of all the JRPG masterpieces like Xenogears, FF7 & 9, Chrono Cross, Suikoden 1-2 etc.

EDIT: I just play the PC-Engine CD version of Rondo and love it(Magic Engine) and I find it hilarious that Maria makes Richter look like a total pussy because of her double jump and general speed, especially her attack speed. I could only bear beating it with Richter once since you can't control the whip like in CV 4, but Maria makes the game so much more fun(but easy) despite her goofy ending. It's easy to make a complete bitch out of the game with that cute little kid.
MorteTheSkull
Hazed
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 1:48 am

Re: PSX vs Saturn for 2D games?

Post by MorteTheSkull »

Saturn has Guardian Heroes, all other points are irrelevant.
"Did you see the way that female zombie was looking at me?"
"You're imagining things, Morte."
Yuber
Trooper
Posts: 417
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:24 pm

Re: PSX vs Saturn for 2D games?

Post by Yuber »

Those Capcom arcade ports with the 4 meg RAM cart were ridiculously impressive and simply could not be done on the PSX. SFA3 on the PSX was pretty damn impressive considering its hardware limitations though. I've only seen video of the Japanese SS port that uses the 4 mb cart, but it looks pretty much arcade-perfect; the animation is vastly superior to its PSX counterpart and I didn't notice any missing frames. The VS series using the same RAM cart were equally impressive. They had almost zero loading due to the cart taking a lot of the slack, and the animation looks like it's all there. From the videos of those ports I've seen, I didn't see much if any slowdown even during the team supers. The PSX versions of the VS games didn't even have the tag feature, and even with that removed the animation is absolute gutter trash, especially in XMvSF.

I play the arcade versions of those games on MAME, and I don't notice much of a difference between the arcade and SS versions. I've always wondered what SF3 double impact or 3rd Strike would've looked like on the Saturn and how much animation they would've had to cut. The Dreamcast version of 3rd Strike has gorgeous animation, but the sprites are blown up and kinda pixelated.

Also, I never owned a Saturn and unfortunately I've never even played Guardian Heroes. Looks like a fantastic beat-em-up though, and I wonder why the Saturn never got Golden Axe: Revenge of Death Adder? It's alnother fantastic beat-em-up that, I think, used hardware very similar to the Saturn. Don't quote me on that, but that game could've easily been ported to the Saturn. GA:RoDA is STILL arcade exclusive. It really should've been ported to the SS because it's a really fun game with very nice sprite work. MAME is the only way to enjoy it.
blackmyst
Zealot
Posts: 1147
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 8:36 pm
Location: Place.

Re: PSX vs Saturn for 2D games?

Post by blackmyst »

Dudes, way to keep resurrecting my old shit from over a yeah ago :/
Procrastination.
Hard Work Often Pays Off After Time, but Laziness Always Pays Off Now.
odditude
Official tech support dood
Posts: 2106
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:57 am

Re: PSX vs Saturn for 2D games?

Post by odditude »

welp, since this got dug up *again*...
Gil_Hamilton wrote:Saturn got the only port I know of of the arcade D&D games. Which were pretty fun.
no longer true with the PSN/XBLA release.
Why yes, my shift key *IS* broken.
Gil_Hamilton
Buzzkill Gil
Posts: 4267
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:14 pm

Re: PSX vs Saturn for 2D games?

Post by Gil_Hamilton »

Indeed.
I've even bought the PC versions. Because god DAMN those things were fun.
Squall_Leonhart wrote:
You have your 2s, 4s, 8s, 16s, 32s, 64s, and 128s(crash course in binary counting!). But no 1s.
DirectInput represents all bits, not just powers of 2 in an axis.


KHDownloads
odditude
Official tech support dood
Posts: 2106
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:57 am

Re: PSX vs Saturn for 2D games?

Post by odditude »

yeah, i bought the ps3 version. four-player couch play is awesome.
Why yes, my shift key *IS* broken.
Gil_Hamilton
Buzzkill Gil
Posts: 4267
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:14 pm

Re: PSX vs Saturn for 2D games?

Post by Gil_Hamilton »

odditude wrote:yeah, i bought the ps3 version. four-player couch play is awesome.

That's what SHE said!
Squall_Leonhart wrote:
You have your 2s, 4s, 8s, 16s, 32s, 64s, and 128s(crash course in binary counting!). But no 1s.
DirectInput represents all bits, not just powers of 2 in an axis.


KHDownloads
Post Reply