Microsoft Sidewinder Pro

Gogz · Post by **Gogz** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 7:42 pm

Hi, new to Zsnes and all that...

I tried my sidewinder with this, and zsnes recognises the controller, and prompts me to enter the key for up, which I do, but then crashes before I can put in the key for down.

I've tried callibrating the controller, and XP responds to it fine, all the buttons appear to be in order...I've ran out of ideas, basically. If anyone could help, that be amazing

Ichinisan · Post by **Ichinisan** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 7:44 pm

It's that damn mushy analog directional pad. Is there a way to force it into a digital mode? Right now, it treats the D-Pad as two variable axes (x,y). If the pad has a way to switch modes, you would get better results in digital mode. This still wouldn't compensate for the mushy inaccuracy of such a pad.

If it was mine, I would throw it away.

Gogz · Post by **Gogz** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:48 pm

Eh...I don't think so. It's a pretty old pad, and this isn't the first program that I've had problems with when using it. Looks like it's a new pad for me then...

Ichinisan · Post by **Ichinisan** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:44 pm

Is this the one?

Gogz · Post by **Gogz** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:55 pm

nah, it's this one:

Like I said, it's really old

Ichinisan · Post by **Ichinisan** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:59 pm

That's the Sidewinder Freesyle Pro. I have one that I only tried once a long time ago. There is a tilt sensor that registers as two axes. ZSNES treats it like an uncentered throttle slider. It's not really possible to hold the controller perfectly still in the 0,0 position while you set keys in ZSNES. It's possible to set keys by editing the zsnes*.cfg file with a text editor (like Windows Notepad), but it's complicated.

Even if you get it working, that D-Pad is god-awful. Of all the gamepads I've used (I have an extensive collection of strange and unusual controllers), it's D-Pad is one of the worst. It's not only inaccurate, but Microsoft was going through a phase at the time where they thought it was OK to have the D-Pad slightly rotated, making it even more difficult to precisely press a direction without accidentally triggering a diagonal.

Gogz · Post by **Gogz** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 10:26 pm

Ichinisan wrote:That's the Sidewinder Freesyle Pro. I have one that I only tried once a long time ago. There is a tilt sensor that registers as two axes. ZSNES treats it like an uncentered throttle slider. It's not really possible to hold the controller perfectly still in the 0,0 position while you set keys in ZSNES. It's possible to set keys by editing the zsnes*.cfg file with a text editor (like Windows Notepad), but it's complicated.

Even if you get it working, that D-Pad is god-awful. Of all the gamepads I've used (I have an extensive collection of strange and unusual controllers), it's D-Pad is one of the worst. It's not only inaccurate, but Microsoft was going through a phase at the time where they thought it was OK to have the D-Pad slightly rotated, making it even more difficult to precisely press a direction without accidentally triggering a diagonal.

Yup, that's the one. You can't actually press down, it has to be diagonally left. Again, looks like a new pad is the best solution.

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 5:51 am

2 recommendations for new pad shopping:

1. Go to a store with demo units on display. You can't really tell how they play, but you can at least see how they feel in your hands.

2. If you can't find one, I've had good luck with Saitek. While it's personal preference, and I'm sure there's some people that hate them with a passion, they're good for me.

adventure_of_link · Post by **adventure_of_link** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:17 am

My Saitek P880 lasted me ~1.5 years.

One thing to stay away from: CENTURY CONCEPT DIGITALS. After 2-3 months, the d-pad will break. I bought two pads that day, both of them suffered the same fate.

Try Nyko, modding your XBox controller for use with the PC, or a PSX -> USB convereter from Radio Shack (the all-black kind.) Stay away from the RS adapter which has some blue on it, a green power LED, and a driver diskette which is a floppy, mine lasted me four days.

Joe Camacho · Post by **Joe Camacho** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:33 am

Ichinisan wrote:Is this the one?

That thing injured my left hand thumb. It's the devil!

KingHanco · Post by **KingHanco** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 2:03 pm

I'm using a SideWinder Gamepad USB. (Before quit making anymore. Last bundles made.)

It works here to me. I haven't seen anymore around in my area anymore.

Those snapshots of those above isn't what I use.

blackmyst · Post by **blackmyst** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 2:39 pm

I've used a Gravis Gamepad Pro for like 6 years now, and it still works fine. Though since I got a Super Smartjoy I haven't looked back.

Ichinisan · Post by **Ichinisan** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 5:30 pm

For a long time, the Gravis Gamepad was pretty much the only acceptable gamepad-style controller for the PC. The original Sidewinder Gamepad blew it away, but the D-Pad has always been sloppy and inaccurate when compared with a Nintendo D-Pad (NES, SNES, Game Boy, and N64). Even the top-of-the-line Saitek and Logitech gamepads are too mushy and inaccurate for me.

My friend got a Thrustmaster gamepad from a thrift store that was in perfect condition. I've been really impressed with the quality of this controller that the retailers all overlooked. The D-Pad is much higher quality than most PC-native gamepads, though it still doesn't meet my high accuracy requirement. The controller is heavy and well-built. It works as a standard HID-compliant game controller, but it also has a force feedback feature that is enabled with the optional driver.

For myself, I prefer to use an N64 controller with an Adaptoid. The D-Pad is actually slightly more accurate than the SNES D-Pad.

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:04 am

Ichinisan wrote:For a long time, the Gravis Gamepad was pretty much the only acceptable gamepad-style controller for the PC. The original Sidewinder Gamepad blew it away, but the D-Pad has always been sloppy and inaccurate when compared with a Nintendo D-Pad (NES, SNES, Game Boy, and N64). Even the top-of-the-line Saitek and Logitech gamepads are too mushy and inaccurate for me.

My friend got a Thrustmaster gamepad from a thrift store that was in perfect condition. I've been really impressed with the quality of this controller that the retailers all overlooked. The D-Pad is much higher quality than most PC-native gamepads, though it still doesn't meet my high accuracy requirement. The controller is heavy and well-built. It works as a standard HID-compliant game controller, but it also has a force feedback feature that is enabled with the optional driver.

For myself, I prefer to use an N64 controller with an Adaptoid. The D-Pad is actually slightly more accurate than the SNES D-Pad.

Thrustmaster comes back to try before you buy. I've seen them very highly praised, but when I actually tested one out while shopping around, it was just plain uncomfortable to hold.

As for the rest...
Precision is a vague notion, really.
The big thing in that regard is diagonal size VS cardinal direction size. Some games play better with really large diagonals, others are better served by a controller that lacks them entirely.
Obviously, there is a point where the diagonals are unarguably too large, but where it is will depend on the specific player and game. Similarly, making the d-pad into 4 discrete buttons will ensure you never get a false diagonal, but it's not going to be very fun to play.

Feel, of course, is ENTIRELY dependent on player. Some people swear that Sony's infamous fanged d-pads are the best digital input ever.
They're crazy, of course, but that's their perspective.

Personally, I find the SNES gamepad doesn't play very well for me. It's far from the worst I've ever used, but it's not my best either.
Haven't had an opportunity to try out a japanese Saturn pad(allegedly the pinnacle of gamepad perfection) but I'm not exactly in any rush. I've got my P880, which has been good enough to stop my quest for PC pads(for the time being).

For real systems, I just use native controllers(typically 3rd-party on Sony machines). Adapters aren't worth the effort, especially when I keep hitting games designed around a specific pad layout.

Hence why I recommend to at least feel up the demo units. There's no absolute best controller(until someone invents a neural interface...).
It's better if you can return the controller to the store if it fails to perform adequately in-game, but just getting a general feel for the device beats the heck out of shooting in the dark.

Ichinisan · Post by **Ichinisan** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:39 pm

The Nintendo D-Pads from the SNES and N64 have minimal travel distance. Mushy "floating" D-Pads were originally conceived as a workaround for Nintendo's (now-expired?) patent on the cross-pad. Sony tried to work around it on the original Playstation by making the D-Pad appear to be four discrete buttons.

The SNES/N64 style pad is best for Tetris Attack experts because the floating style pads have too much travel to be accurate and responsive. The Sony pad is acceptable, but noticably less accurate (from the view of a TA player).

Nintedo's Gamecube and the original GBA have terrible D-Pads. The GBC was OK, but noticably less accurate than a Playstation controller.

Logitech now makes pads for consoles that look much better than other 3rd-party controllers. I'm sure their PC controllers are also high quality. Best Buy usually has a setup that allows you to feel the controller.

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:02 am

Ichinisan wrote:The Nintendo D-Pads from the SNES and N64 have minimal travel distance. Mushy "floating" D-Pads were originally conceived as a workaround for Nintendo's (now-expired?) patent on the cross-pad. Sony tried to work around it on the original Playstation by making the D-Pad appear to be four discrete buttons.

Some of the "floating" d-pads don't actually float.
My preferred Genesis pad of the 6 or so 1st-party 3-button pads I have has the d-pad pulled down so that it's resting on the pivot point at all times.
I have at least one of the originals that you could press straight down on to connect all 4 directions, as well. It sucks royally and I banished it from my sight.

My Saitek has just a tiny bit of float. The spring's tight enough that it's not noticable unless you're looking for it. Does lend it a mushy feel when you reverse directions, though.

And yes, the Nintendo patent HAS expired. Exactly when is unclear, but no one offers a patent longer than 20 years, and the first Game&Watch came out in 1980-1982(not sure the exact date), so the Nintendo-style d-pad patent expired no later than 2002.

The SNES/N64 style pad is best for Tetris Attack experts because the floating style pads have too much travel to be accurate and responsive. The Sony pad is acceptable, but noticably less accurate (from the view of a TA player).

I have my most notable troubles with the SNES pad in Super Metroid, of all things. I land spurious diagonals every now and then, which occasionally has Samus stopping and crouching when I need her running.

My playstyle just expects smaller diagonals than the SNES pad has.

Nintedo's Gamecube and the original GBA have terrible D-Pads.

On that we agree 100%.

The GBC was OK, but noticably less accurate than a Playstation controller.

On the upside, the GBC is far friendlier on the thumb.

The original green-screen GameBoy has the best of the GB d-pads that I've used(no Micro experience yet). GBColor is a runner-up.
I haven't given the SP pad a fair chance, because I dislike the overall size of the SP.

Logitech now makes pads for consoles that look much better than other 3rd-party controllers. I'm sure their PC controllers are also high quality. Best Buy usually has a setup that allows you to feel the controller.

My Logitech experience is 2 d-pad revisions ago. Their current models DO look like a major improvement.

My Best Buy has the last-generation Logitechs on display instead of the current models, though. Not very useful...

Post by **odditude** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:29 am

adventure_of_link wrote:Stay away from the RS adapter which has some blue on it, a green power LED, and a driver diskette which is a floppy, mine lasted me four days.

I've had two of these for getting on two years now, and they both work wonderfully. The D-pad is treated as axes (which breaks dance mats), but I really don't care at all about that. I'm running Kubuntu 5.10 now, which completely plug-n-played them as well. I was amazed.