Hail to the Zhi

Feel free to discuss anything gaming related.

Moderator: General Mods

grinvader
ZSNES Shake Shake Prinny
Posts: 5627
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2004 4:15 pm
Location: PAL50, dood !

Hail to the Zhi

Post by grinvader »

When god gives you turkeys, you make a motherfucking patch.

And then another.


This year, be thankful for Gid's balltastic awesomenesshood.
皆黙って俺について来い!!

Code: Select all

<jmr> bsnes has the most accurate wiki page but it takes forever to load (or something)

Pantheon: Gideon Zhi | CaitSith2 | Nach | kode54
Agozer
16-bit Corpse | Nyoron~
Posts: 3534
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 7:14 pm
Location: Nokia Land

Re: Hail to the Zhi

Post by Agozer »

Oh yeah baby
whicker: franpa is grammatically correct, and he still gets ripped on?
sweener2001: Grammatically correct this one time? sure. every other time? no. does that give him a right? not really.
Image
God
Sucks at Tetris
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:07 am

Re: Hail to the Zhi

Post by God »

I didn't give anyone turkeys. That was my brother Steve.
Yuber
Trooper
Posts: 417
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:24 pm

Re: Hail to the Zhi

Post by Yuber »

Thanks for the links. I've never played either of those games, and fan translations are always greatly appreciated. Many RPG fan translations are superior to even official retranslations(J2e's FF4 trans for example) of older games. I can't even imagine how much work it takes to properly hack & translate a game.
odditude
Official tech support dood
Posts: 2107
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:57 am

Re: Hail to the Zhi

Post by odditude »

Yuber wrote:(J2e's FF4 trans for example)
cue unintended hilarity
Why yes, my shift key *IS* broken.
Gil_Hamilton
Buzzkill Gil
Posts: 4267
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:14 pm

Re: Hail to the Zhi

Post by Gil_Hamilton »

odditude wrote:
Yuber wrote:(J2e's FF4 trans for example)
cue unintended hilarity

I was gonna let it slide. Just because calling it out's gotten old.

But...
http://legendsoflocalization.com/final- ... stle/#frog Random example of how masterful the J2E version was. They literally just made stuff up.
Squall_Leonhart wrote:
You have your 2s, 4s, 8s, 16s, 32s, 64s, and 128s(crash course in binary counting!). But no 1s.
DirectInput represents all bits, not just powers of 2 in an axis.


KHDownloads
blackmyst
Zealot
Posts: 1147
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 8:36 pm
Location: Place.

Re: Hail to the Zhi

Post by blackmyst »

Still better than the playstation translation, lol. It's the only passable translation of the japanese original until someone makes something better (I hope so).
Procrastination.
Hard Work Often Pays Off After Time, but Laziness Always Pays Off Now.
Yuber
Trooper
Posts: 417
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:24 pm

Re: Hail to the Zhi

Post by Yuber »

I prefer the J2e patch over other translations because it's funny as shit. I didn't even know it was inaccurate, but I don't give a shit because I enjoyed the goofy ass dialogue more than the GBA/PSP & DS RTs. I don't know Japanese, so I have no clue about its accuracy, but Cid is fucking hilarious in it. It's by no means bad, and it allows people to play the original Japanese version of the game without any censorship. Sure it's goofy & has a lot of cursing, but its entertainment value outweighs its flaws. I dig the font too.

HATERS
Gil_Hamilton
Buzzkill Gil
Posts: 4267
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:14 pm

Re: Hail to the Zhi

Post by Gil_Hamilton »

It ceases to be the "original" once people start making things up and inserting them. You can argue if it's better or worse, but it's not faithful by any stretch.
Squall_Leonhart wrote:
You have your 2s, 4s, 8s, 16s, 32s, 64s, and 128s(crash course in binary counting!). But no 1s.
DirectInput represents all bits, not just powers of 2 in an axis.


KHDownloads
blackmyst
Zealot
Posts: 1147
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 8:36 pm
Location: Place.

Re: Hail to the Zhi

Post by blackmyst »

Well by original I mean the gameplay and graphics changes from FFIV -> FFIV easytype and the american version, mostly. As for the j2e translation, at least it's mostly some lame additions, and less removal of meaning. It's not very good, but there's really no better options, looks like.
Procrastination.
Hard Work Often Pays Off After Time, but Laziness Always Pays Off Now.
Gil_Hamilton
Buzzkill Gil
Posts: 4267
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:14 pm

Re: Hail to the Zhi

Post by Gil_Hamilton »

blackmyst wrote:Well by original I mean the gameplay and graphics changes from FFIV -> FFIV easytype and the american version, mostly. As for the j2e translation, at least it's mostly some lame additions, and less removal of meaning. It's not very good, but there's really no better options, looks like.

I was directing that at Yuber, actually. I don't dispute it may be the best translation available, but I DO dispute that it's "the original japanese version."


Making stuff up and inserting it is, in my mind, exactly the same as taking stuff out.
Moreso if you take something out to insert your made-up stuff.

"Oh, look at all this stuff they cut out! They were cussin' ALL THE TIME in the original japanese! You suck, Nintendo America!"
"Ummm, actually... that character spoke in a very reserved tone in the original japanese. Dropping f-bombs is COMPLETELY out of character for him."
"I can't tell if it's accurate or not, but it's hilarious! Who cares?"
"Ummm, weren't you just complaining about unfaithful translations five minutes ago?"
Squall_Leonhart wrote:
You have your 2s, 4s, 8s, 16s, 32s, 64s, and 128s(crash course in binary counting!). But no 1s.
DirectInput represents all bits, not just powers of 2 in an axis.


KHDownloads
blackmyst
Zealot
Posts: 1147
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 8:36 pm
Location: Place.

Re: Hail to the Zhi

Post by blackmyst »

Gameplay wise it is. ;) Then again so are the other versions that aren't the american snes release, I guess. Again though, lesser of evils etc.

I did notice some kind of new retranslation of the game on rhdn, but apparently it was a patch for the american version, which I thought was kinda too bad and a missed opportunity. Oh well.
Procrastination.
Hard Work Often Pays Off After Time, but Laziness Always Pays Off Now.
grinvader
ZSNES Shake Shake Prinny
Posts: 5627
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2004 4:15 pm
Location: PAL50, dood !

Re: Hail to the Zhi

Post by grinvader »

blackmyst wrote:I did notice some kind of new retranslation of the game on rhdn, but apparently it was a patch for the american version, which I thought was kinda too bad and a missed opportunity. Oh well.


That one ? It doesn't look half bad, really. Hacking the english ver to have the right script, bugfixes and font rountines is pretty much the same as starting from the moonrom and burning away the kana table to make room and so on.
The only 'notable' difference from an original FF4 experience would be the title screen, but who cares about that faggot cecil anyway.
皆黙って俺について来い!!

Code: Select all

<jmr> bsnes has the most accurate wiki page but it takes forever to load (or something)

Pantheon: Gideon Zhi | CaitSith2 | Nach | kode54
blackmyst
Zealot
Posts: 1147
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 8:36 pm
Location: Place.

Re: Hail to the Zhi

Post by blackmyst »

Yeah.
Did they really revert all the little changes though? Like the visible secret paths, missing items etc. Seems like a roundabout way to do it, re-hack the game to change it into FFIV hardtype again.
Procrastination.
Hard Work Often Pays Off After Time, but Laziness Always Pays Off Now.
Yuber
Trooper
Posts: 417
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:24 pm

Re: Hail to the Zhi

Post by Yuber »

Gil: I meant the original Japanese version gameplay and difficulty wise, not the actual translation. Regardless of accuracy, I think it tells the story well and I enjoy the goofy, over the top dialogue. The dialogue is funnier and more colorful than the GBA/PSP or DS RTs in my opinion. I never claimed the J2e patch was accurate. You misinterpreted "original Japanese version of the game" as me claiming it's an accurate translation. You should've realized what I meant just based on context, because I admitted that I had no idea how accurate the patch's translation was.

So, to rephrase it: The J2e patch has a goofy(but very entertaining) translation, but it allows you to play FF4 without the US version's gameplay butchery or censorship. How do you all rate the J2e patch against the GBA/PSP & DS translations?
odditude
Official tech support dood
Posts: 2107
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:57 am

Re: Hail to the Zhi

Post by odditude »

Yuber wrote:How do you all rate the J2e patch against the GBA/PSP & DS translations?
odditude wrote:cue unintended hilarity
Why yes, my shift key *IS* broken.
Yuber
Trooper
Posts: 417
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:24 pm

Re: Hail to the Zhi

Post by Yuber »

So, you're fluent in Japanese and have the entire FF4 script memorized? Seriously though, it's a matter of taste. I find the J2e patch's dialogue funnier and more entertaining than any official translation available. I already told you that I don't give a shit how accurate the patch is because it's funny and enjoyable.

Some of you are way too anal. If you hate the J2e hack so much, just play the GBA, PSP, or DS versions. Don't hate.
odditude
Official tech support dood
Posts: 2107
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:57 am

Re: Hail to the Zhi

Post by odditude »

Yuber wrote:So, you're fluent in Japanese and have the entire FF4 script memorized? Seriously though, it's a matter of taste. I find the J2e patch's dialogue funnier and more entertaining than any official translation available. I already told you that I don't give a shit how accurate the patch is because it's funny and enjoyable.

Some of you are way too anal. If you hate the J2e hack so much, just play the GBA, PSP, or DS versions. Don't hate.

you asked for our opinions, i provided mine. don't bitch.
Why yes, my shift key *IS* broken.
Yuber
Trooper
Posts: 417
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:24 pm

Re: Hail to the Zhi

Post by Yuber »

A smartass remark doesn't = a decent response. It's obvious you dislike the patch, but you gave no details. I'm curious what you think of the J2e fan trans compared to the the GBA/PSP versions.(because those versions are closer to the original than FF4DS)

I'm not at all sure how accurate the GBA/PSP translation is, but I'm sure it's not perfect. It's not as hilariously goofy as the J2e patch, but much of the silliness is a positive for me. From that site comparing the different translations, the fan trans is very inaccurate, but I dig some of the extra flavor J2e added. For purists though, I can definitely understand why the J2e hack is frowned upon. The "edgy" forced cursing & pop culture references are a little much, but they're not that big a deal. It's VASTLY superior to "FF2" both gameplay & dialogue wise, imo.

Although I like the J2e patch, I do wish a dead-on accurate translation of SNES FF4 existed. The DS version is, imo, the best overall version although it's ridiculously hard. I kinda wish the DS had gotten the 2d remake because a 3d remake on the PSP could've done FF4's art much more justice.
odditude
Official tech support dood
Posts: 2107
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:57 am

Re: Hail to the Zhi

Post by odditude »

Yuber wrote:A smartass remark doesn't = a decent response.
if you failed to notice, my original smartass remark prompted everyone else to fill in the blanks for you. yay, economy of words.

Yuber wrote:J2e hack is [...] VASTLY superior to "FF2" both gameplay & dialogue wise, imo.
the hack gets no credit for the gameplay. that's all FF4 there.

Yuber wrote:I kinda wish the DS had gotten the 2d remake because a 3d remake on the PSP could've done FF4's art much more justice.
keep in mind FF4DS was made using FF3DS's engine.
Why yes, my shift key *IS* broken.
Yuber
Trooper
Posts: 417
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:24 pm

Re: Hail to the Zhi

Post by Yuber »

I was referring to you personally, so my argument still stands. I know FF4DS used 3's engine which made it much easier for SE to remake FF4 on the DS. However, given the PSP's HUGE power advantage, a 3D PSP remake of FF4 would've done it much more justice in an artistic sense. My main problem with FF4DS is its graphics, which while good for a DS game, don't do FF4's art justice. I love the augment system + the other gameplay tweaks though. It's like playing a new game altogether, and SE even added some extra story.
odditude
Official tech support dood
Posts: 2107
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:57 am

Re: Hail to the Zhi

Post by odditude »

...but the DS has the audience, not the PSP.
Why yes, my shift key *IS* broken.
Yuber
Trooper
Posts: 417
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:24 pm

Re: Hail to the Zhi

Post by Yuber »

I'm aware of that, but a well done 3D PSP remake would've been fucking awesome. The current PSP version is just a souped up version of the GBA port, and the difficulty took a dive too. Being able to switch between party members in battle ala FF6 makes the game easier, and certain bosses(including Zeromus) seem to do less damage than they do in the JP SNES version. The added content from the GBA version is sub-par imo, especially Rosa's OBNOXIOUS trial. It's the one that makes you heal everyone within a certain time limit, and if you screw up once, you're fucked. The new weapons/armor are somewhat cool though.

The art in FF4 Complete isn't NEARLY as bad as, say, FF5 mobile, but it's not as good as it could've been. I prefer FF4CC over the GBA port, but the original SNES and DS versions are my favorites. Just imagine the DS version with(high-end) PSP graphics & sound. FF4DS & the DQ DS remakes are the only good things SE has done recently, imo. Switching to(mostly) phone/tablet shit allows SE to lower their quality bar drastically & still make money.

I look to companies like Monolith & Atlus to create truly high-end JRPGs now, because OG Square is long dead. If SE goes out of business soon, I hope a competent Japanese publisher acquires their IPs.
Gil_Hamilton
Buzzkill Gil
Posts: 4267
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:14 pm

Re: Hail to the Zhi

Post by Gil_Hamilton »

Yuber wrote:I look to companies like Monolith & Atlus to create truly high-end JRPGs now, because OG Square is long dead. If SE goes out of business soon, I hope a competent Japanese publisher acquires their IPs.

I hope NO ONE acquires the rights to the names. But that's not going to happen.
Squall_Leonhart wrote:
You have your 2s, 4s, 8s, 16s, 32s, 64s, and 128s(crash course in binary counting!). But no 1s.
DirectInput represents all bits, not just powers of 2 in an axis.


KHDownloads
Yuber
Trooper
Posts: 417
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:24 pm

Re: Hail to the Zhi

Post by Yuber »

How come? Xenogears, for example, is an incomplete game that, if done by a competent team, could be an awesome 3DS port/semi-remake. The visuals could use slight enhancements, but that 2nd disc being incomplete would be the biggest hurdle. Monolith could probably NAIL that. SE is so shitty these days that they'd turn XG into a shitty, artistically bankrupt phone turd.

I know you want FF to die ASAP since the brand is being further destroyed/milked by SE's shitty phone ports, but whether you like it or not, it's an iconic series. IF it gets acquired by a company like Monolith or Atlus(well, Sega now) I'd like to see ONE last great FF game before it's put to rest. IX was the last great one in my book. I was thinking more about the acquisitions of IPs like Chrono, XG, Mana/SD etc. Soul Blazer could use a revival too(new game, not a remake), because Terranigma & IOG are great(never played the 1st SB). On the same note, If Capcom goes under, I'd love the BoF IP to find a better home. BoF6 is a microcosm of why I strongly dislike mobile gaming right now.

If a superior company DOES acquire SE's IPs, are you concerned that said company would abandon their core games in order to cash in on FF's name or something?

I don't see mobile gaming as INHERENTLY bad, but I hate to see classics like FF6 get butchered artistically & made even easier. Pubs/devs generally use the mobile market to make VERY low quality cash grabs since the quality bar is so low compared to the dedicated gaming market. It's much easier for companies to get away with making horrible games with tons of microtransactions for mobile than it is on dedicated handhelds. The way many companies use the mobile market IS inherently bad for gaming.
Post Reply