Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band

[Joe Camacho]

"the US is better off without those backwards farming slaver hicks"

That would be kind of cool, actually. Let the south go with a religious theocracy, and the north go with the liberal democrats. Let each philosophy run wild and see which one falls to third-world status first. Of course we'll have to invert California and Alaska for this to work.

There is no need. Use Canada as your liberal democrats and México as your religious theocracy, guess who is who.

Ouch.

I'm a moderate by the way, my facebook state says so.

[byuu]

There is no need. Use Canada as your liberal democrats and México as your religious theocracy, guess who is who.

I looked into it. Only way I can get citizenship in Canada is with a couple hundred grand to 'invest'.

I'm a moderate by the way, my facebook state says so.

I just believe that everyone should be 100% equal, with the same rights as everyone else. So that scratches off Republican for me right off the bat. Democrats really aren't great either, but it's a lesser of two evils situation. I do not wish to live in a theocracy, so until the right stops pandering to the ultra-conservative Christians that want their morals to be law, they won't count me as a member of their party.

From there it doesn't matter too much, eg fiscal liberalism vs conservatism, tiered vs flat tax, social security, medicare, ... all important stuff and I definitely have my uninformed preferences, but equality is my #1 issue.

[Gleasonator]

I just believe that everyone should be 100% equal, with the same rights as everyone else. So that scratches off Republican for me right off the bat. Democrats really aren't great either, but it's a lesser of two evils situation. I do not wish to live in a theocracy, so until the right stops pandering to the ultra-conservative Christians that want their morals to be law, they won't count me as a member of their party.

From there it doesn't matter too much, eg fiscal liberalism vs conservatism, tiered vs flat tax, social security, medicare, ... all important stuff and I definitely have my uninformed preferences, but equality is my #1 issue.

Categorizing yourself as one or the other (or any political party, for that matter) is mind control. It boxes you into one set of beliefs, and makes you hate others just because they categorize themselves differently.

If only we could think for ourselves on each and every issue rather than being lazy and summing up all of our politics in one word, we may actually get something done rather than waste our time bickering over which set of rules is better than another.

[byuu]

Categorizing yourself as one or the other (or any political party, for that matter) is mind control. It boxes you into one set of beliefs, and makes you hate others just because they categorize themselves differently.

The whole point of labels are for quick association, not strict adherence. Sure I could explain all 100% of my ideals each time a question is posed, but it's just easier to say 'democrat' or 'republican'.

Likewise, I know there's a lot of decent Republicans / Christians and I don't automatically dislike someone for being one.

That said, I didn't say I was necessarily a straight Democrat, either. I actually lean slightly toward socialism, myself. I just realize it can never work because humans are just too selfish to care about strangers. The second one person doesn't give it 100%, nobody else wants to and it all falls apart.

I will agree with you that someone who strictly votes / acts along the party line, based on what other people tell them, are sheep.

If only we could think for ourselves on each and every issue rather than being lazy and summing up all of our politics in one word, we may actually get something done rather than waste our time bickering over which set of rules is better than another.

Individually, we aren't going to change much in life -- look at the exit polls: ~55% of Americans honestly believe same sex couples shouldn't have the right to visit each other on their death beds. Do you know how many hundreds of millions of dollars are spent pushing on both sides? What do you really think some middle-class computer programmer is going to change?

I know, I know ... "look at Martin Luther King." That man really knew his O(log n) algorithms.

[Gil_Hamilton]

"the US is better off without those backwards farming slaver hicks"

That would be kind of cool, actually. Let the south go with a religious theocracy, and the north go with the liberal democrats. Let each philosophy run wild and see which one falls to third-world status first. Of course we'll have to invert California and Alaska for this to work.

From a modern perspective, I resent that.

In the old days, both nations would've gotten along well.
The south relied on northern industry(or european industry when it wasn't being heavily tariffed to force people to buy more expensive goods that were made in the USA) and the north relied on southern raw materials.

He also pressed for the highly unpopular move of integrating the southern states back into the US as quickly and painlessly as possible instead of punishing them with a lengthy reconstruction process and stripping the citizens of their property

Don't we always offer to help after we fuck people's shit up? Like Japan and Iraq?

Now.

But for most of history, the general rule was "winner gets to fuck the other guy's shit up for giggles."
Remember, WW2 happened because Europe insisted on punishing someone for WW1.

And you see that old-school attitude in action during the post-war reconstruction in the south.






Amusingly, the democratic party was born in the south, and was a conservative counterpoint to the liberal republicans. Amazing what a century can do for the political landscape.

[byuu]

From a modern perspective, I resent that.

I just don't think it's possible to see eye to eye between the farthest left and farthest right leaning individuals.

Congress is pretty much perpetually at a standstill, and real lasting change seems to take several dozen years per issue to occur. Given, that infighting is probably the only reason we're still a country at this point ... it would be interesting to live in a country where more than ~50% of people were happy with the current president and most of the legislation being passed.

It's quite annoying living in a country where each half vehemently hates the other half.

[Gil_Hamilton]

From a modern perspective, I resent that.

I just don't think it's possible to see eye to eye between the farthest left and farthest right leaning individuals.

Congress is pretty much perpetually at a standstill, and real lasting change seems to take several dozen years per issue to occur. Given, that infighting is probably the only reason we're still a country at this point ... it would be interesting to live in a country where more than ~50% of people were happy with the current president and most of the legislation being passed.

It's quite annoying living in a country where each half vehemently hates the other half.

Just saying that AS a southerner, I don't like being filed as a rabid bible-thumper.


Certainly, being west of the deep south affects my perception, but...





Really, I don't think most of the nation is that rabid. Hell, most of the nation can't even be bothered to vote, so they can't have VERY strong opinions.



I DO think the "straight party" ticket should be outlawed.
Optimally, I'd like to see party affiliation totally removed from the ballot, so people have to actually know WHO they're voting for. I don't think the ballot should enable ANYONE to just walk in and vote all Democrats or all Republicans. And Primus forbid someone get enough of them on the ballot for a straight Libertarian ticket.

[sweener2001]

you guys should watch jesus camp

it's good, and explains really well why republicans pander to the crazies

HINT: it got bush a second term

[gllt]

tbh I don't contribute to these conversations because I'm a religious nut and would be considered a conspiracy monger

[Tallgeese]

Don't we always offer to help after we fuck people's shit up? Like Japan and Iraq?

Let's be fair here. The single biggest reason that Japan turned out so exemplary when it comes to business management is because of US aid after WW2. In particular, they sent W. Edward Deming to teach them statistics-based business techniques that they generally take to heart.

What's amazingly ironic is that we should have kept the guy here.

Oh well. I'd rather have business-centric Japan as opposed to Rape of Nanking Japan. I'm decidedly glad the US 'fucked up' the latter.

[AamirM]

I love bsnes releases .

[Panzer88]

"the US is better off without those backwards farming slaver hicks"

That would be kind of cool, actually. Let the south go with a religious theocracy, and the north go with the liberal democrats. Let each philosophy run wild and see which one falls to third-world status first. Of course we'll have to invert California and Alaska for this to work.

There is no need. Use Canada as your liberal democrats and México as your religious theocracy, guess who is who.

Ouch.

I'm a moderate by the way, my facebook state says so.

I thought you said " I'm a moderator"

the ultimate say so.

I'm fairly moderate, and I see both parties trying to shove their ideals down your throat, everyone talks about it like it's just the republicans, I dislike both saying we should all live our lives their way, it's genuinely offensive on both sides.

[Gleasonator]

look at the exit polls: ~55% of Americans honestly believe same sex couples shouldn't have the right to visit each other on their death beds.

This is all it took...

I suppose it wouldn't even matter if there was hate or not, would it? People are too stupid to change anything for the good.

But still, categorizing all of my political beliefs into one word just doesn't make sense to me... there's just too many factors. I prefer to view each and every issue individually and respond to it based on my own thoughts.

[byuu]

I suppose it wouldn't even matter if there was hate or not, would it? People are too stupid to change anything for the good.

No, absolutely nothing I do can get through to people like this:

Even better is to, due to the concussion headache beginning to blind me, forget to take off my little green and gold "equality" sticker on the way out of the building, and be followed to the bus stop by a bunch of red shirts with signs. Three 6'5", 200 pound Islander guys with signs saying "Gay marriage is wrong" and "John 3:16" followed the lone little white girl with her laptop case across the street, yelling at me, "Repent!", calling me a bitch and a whore, telling me, "You just need a real man to fuck you straight." Nothing I haven't heard before.

Then one of them said, "We know who you are now, and what you drive. We saw you last Thursday. You better watch yourself, fucking haole bitch." Not one of the 20 people standing around the bus stop said anything to them.

Replace gay with black and 2009 with 1959.

No worries, it'll change just like everything else. The older, closed-minded people will die of old age; the younger people who have more direct interactions with increasingly open individuals will realize they're human beings too, and things will very slowly change. They already are, in fact.

This doesn't even affect me directly. It's the bigger picture that really concerns me: who's next in 2059? Atheists? Hispanics? Some other group?

Remembering that bullshit from 1st grade, our teacher telling us what a great, free country we live in; where everyone is treated equally; and how lucky we were to be born here. How every vote mattered. And at six years old, I just ate it up.

But still, categorizing all of my political beliefs into one word just doesn't make sense to me... there's just too many factors. I prefer to view each and every issue individually and respond to it based on my own thoughts.

I understand completely what you're getting at, and I'm not totally disagreeing with you. I'm just jaded and bitter about the whole process, sorry.

[Joe Camacho]

I thought you said " I'm a moderator"

the ultimate say so.

I'm fairly moderate, and I see both parties trying to shove their ideals down your throat, everyone talks about it like it's just the republicans, I dislike both saying we should all live our lives their way, it's genuinely offensive on both sides.

You know, you northamericans have it easy.

It's pretty easy to knock Republicans as Rednecks or Democrats as Hippies, but at least the Parties in the US have straight and consistent positions regarding state policies and legislation.

In third world countries, politicians jump around parties as soon as they see an oportunity to continue inside the public administration. Conservatives during the morning, can become Liberals during the afternoon and eat dinner while waving the communism flag. There is no conception of political party ideals and principles.

I do agree that the ideal party would be an eclectic one, but it's easier to appeal to the masses if you focus on pushing stuff they love and disaprove stuff they hate.

[Panzer88]

yeah I grew up in a 3rd world party where politicians were almost all leaking money into their own pockets and the country as a whole was suffering. Living under a corrupt government is no fun.

[Tallgeese]

Um, byuu?

No offense, but you may want to just give up now.

Every single society in the world has inequality. Even the simplest, most harmonious.

The fact is, human beings define themselves in opposition to others. In fact, all living creatures do this in some way, shape, or form.

Those so-called 'open individuals' you mention have their own biases, and so do you. You're simply not conscious of them. You do not, nor will you ever, treat everyone equally. That is reality; that will always be reality. Not even the most well-intentioned interpretation of the biblical Christ treated everyone equally.

You too will die, and you have no proof that society will move as you envision. That is your own wish. Assuming it will be reality is a pipe dream.

Don't go to the grave with broken, unachieveable ideals. I'm trying to save you a lot of grief.

[byuu]

No offense, but you may want to just give up now.

That was kind of my point ... I have given up :P

You do not, nor will you ever, treat everyone equally. That is reality; that will always be reality.

True, it just has to cross a social taboo I find abhorrent and I act the same way. I think I'd be just as pissed and on the streets as those wingnuts if they lowered the age of consent to 12, for example.

You too will die, and you have no proof that society will move as you envision.

Yeah, I shouldn't make it sound like I'm 100% certain. But I do base my findings off the past several hundred years of history in this country, and the year-to-year Pew research studies.

[Tallgeese]

There's actually fringe groups that say loudly that there's no reason there shouldn't be intergenerational sex, so you might have your chance.

As someone who has done some research about social psychology, I really would not trust those sources you mention. Further, while it is true there has been progress, the prtverbial buck will stop somewhere. Not to mention revisoonist history.

Seriously, I have a lot of trouble trusting anything resembling statistical data meant to show societal trends these days... at least those that use supposedly random sampling or otherwise incomplete data... but that's just my experience.

[gllt]

WALLS OF TEXT, EVERYWHERE

I'M SURROUNDED

[Gil_Hamilton]

WALLS OF TEXT, EVERYWHERE

I'M SURROUNDED

BY COMMIES!

[gllt]

WALLS OF TEXT, EVERYWHERE

I'M SURROUNDED

BY COMMIES!

haha people still say commies

[grinvader]

Three 6'5", 200 pound Islander guys with signs saying "Gay marriage is wrong" and "John 3:16"

Wait what

Some guy dies because he's a delusional philanthropist, what does it have to do with homosexuals ?

(also; blergh 90 seconds)

[byuu]

Some guy dies because he's a delusional philanthropist, what does it have to do with homosexuals ?

He died, so that you could be straight.

[gllt]

Some guy dies because he's a delusional philanthropist, what does it have to do with homosexuals ?

He died, so that you could be straight.

BYUU THE BELOVED