hacks for compatibility

General area for talk about ZSNES. The best place to ask for related questions as well as troubleshooting.

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Stifu
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Post by Stifu »

Player1 wrote:I said you could make a switch that turns all hacks of, I would volunteer to test games in an unhacked version. I don't want to bitch around, as I said I just see it from the user side and try to learn how everything works
In other words, you want the ZSNES staff to waste their time adding a hack system you could enable and disable (which would have more drawbacks than advantages) instead of spending time making the emulation actually better ? :p
Fortunately it won't happen.
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Post by Nach »

Player1 wrote: I said you could make a switch that turns all hacks of, I would volunteer to test games in an unhacked version. I don't want to bitch around, as I said I just see it from the user side and try to learn how everything works
I already have a switch to turn hacks off for myself. When I first tried running ZSNES hack free, I did it to see what it would be like. I was shocked to find that some games worked better!

For example, Chrono Trigger once had a timing hack to sync the sound during the intro. When I used to watch the CT intro and saw the sound off, I thought we had a bug, then I noticed turning the hack off fixed the bug, at which point I removed the hack for CT altogether. And yet no one reported the intro was being broken since how many people watch and pay attention to a sound sync failure of a half a second in an intro?

But ZSNES had a bug in CT for a while because it was hacked to alter timings when timing was off and never removed. In cases like this a hack actally ended up creating the problem it was designed to remove.

You also have to realize pagefault, myself and the other developers don't have or care to play every single game. We won't ever know of some problems if they're not reported, and they won't be reported if there's an option for the problem to not happen.

How many people did you see report an HDMA bug in Super Punchout in the past 5 years? Answer: none.

Even though this is how ZSNES emulates Super Punchout:
Image
The reason the end user doesn't ever notice it is because of some lousy hack. I can also quite assure you the same bug in SP affects some exotic Japanese game that no one here plays, and it's not reported because the people who play that game don't speak English or care to report bugs.
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Post by AspiringSquire »

Nach wrote:I already have a switch to turn hacks off for myself. When I first tried running ZSNES hack free, I did it to see what it would be like. I was shocked to find that some games worked better!
Is that switch available in the distributed executables? I'd like to try it, too. ;)
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Noxious Ninja
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Post by Noxious Ninja »

I get your point.

Well, then, let's disable hacks once and for all.
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ShadowFX
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Post by ShadowFX »

I indeed was a bit hypocritical in my previous post, however, everyone already pointed out SNES accuracy is the way to go and I have nothing more to add :)

I now see SNES emulation has a more bright future ahead.

:arrow:
Shogetsu
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Post by Shogetsu »

Sky Render said this on RPGOne site regarding the latest Final Fantasy VI patch:
Since the new ZSNES releases have game-specific fixes that look at the game's internal name...
Could you talk a bit about this? I'm simply curious, I guess it was a mistake/bad phrasing from Sky Render, wasn't it?. And, of course, I think is better to ask here rather than to ask on RPGOne forums (since you are the emu authors).

Please, don't take this as an intention to start a flame war nor something along those lines.
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Malcster
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Post by Malcster »

AspiringSquire wrote:Is that switch available in the distributed executables? I'd like to try it, too. ;)
I don't know for sure but I'd bet it isn't, it's probably more like Nach commenting out a bunch of line / files of code.
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Post by grinvader »

Shogetsu wrote:Sky Render said this on RPGOne site regarding the latest Final Fantasy VI patch:
Since the new ZSNES releases have game-specific fixes that look at the game's internal name...
Could you talk a bit about this? I'm simply curious, I guess it was a mistake/bad phrasing from Sky Render, wasn't it?. And, of course, I think is better to ask here rather than to ask on RPGOne forums (since you are the emu authors).

Please, don't take this as an intention to start a flame war nor something along those lines.
He didn't made any mistake. ZSNES game-specific hacks active themselves upon internal ROM name match.
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Code: Select all

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xamenus
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Post by xamenus »

Interesting read, Nach. :) Removing hacks makes it easier to identify any problems that may have been forgotten about or have already been fixed.
AspiringSquire wrote:Is that switch available in the distributed executables? I'd like to try it, too. ;)
I wouldn't mind seeing a "disable hack" switch go public myself. :P Or I wouldn't mind trying it at least.
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Post by Nach »

Malcster wrote:
AspiringSquire wrote:Is that switch available in the distributed executables? I'd like to try it, too. ;)
I don't know for sure but I'd bet it isn't, it's probably more like Nach commenting out a bunch of line / files of code.
More like just adding a return; at the top of the hack code. But good guess.
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ipher
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Post by ipher »

[url=http://www.ipherswipsite.com]ipher's WIP Site[/url]
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Post by AspiringSquire »

:shock: That's awesome! Thank you! :D
[url=http://board.zsnes.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3298][color=brown]My [u]NES palette[/u][/color][/url] - better colors with any emulator.

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Post by snkcube »

Awesomely cool. :lol:
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Player1
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Post by Player1 »

could you please release the hackless version with a readme which contains all hacks and known bugs that these arn't reportet 100 times
kieran_
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Post by kieran_ »

Brilliant!
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Post by Hexlord »

That's cool.. once I finished compiling games that look buggy, I will try to run them again as such.
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ipher
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Post by ipher »

This is the hacked games list that i saw in ZSNES, if any of these games improve in the Hackless version over the 2/28/05 WIP, please let us know.

Accele Brid (J): Fixes freeze in race
Addams Family Values (U/E)
Bahamut Lagoon (J) and all known translations
Battle Grand Prix (J)
Bubsy II (U/E)
Clay Fighter (U)
Cyber Knight II - Tikyu Teikoku no Yabou (J)
Dead Dance (J)
Deae Tonosama Appare Ichiban (J)
Dragon Quest 5 (J): (Disables HDMA)
DSP-1: (Disables HDMA)
Earthworm Jim 2 (all regions?)
Emerald Dragon (J)
Final Fantasy 3u/6j: fixes overworld map
Front Mission
Home Alone (J/E/U)
Human Grand Prix (J)
Human Grand Prix II (J)
Human Grand Prix III - F1 Triple Battle (J)
Kamen Rider (J)
Lamborghini - American Challenge (U/E)
Mortal Kombat (J/U/E): fixes GFX (Disables HDMA)
Neugier (J), and it's English translation
Rendering Ranger R2
Super Famista (J)
Super Famista 2 (J)
Super Final Match Tennis (J)
Super Mario - Yossy Island (J), and variants
Super Mario World 2 - Yoshi's Island (U/E)
Super Punch-Out: fixes countdown (Disables HDMA)
Tuff E Nuff (U/E)
Last edited by ipher on Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:53 am, edited 6 times in total.
[url=http://www.ipherswipsite.com]ipher's WIP Site[/url]
Deathlike2
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Post by Deathlike2 »

Whoops.. big edit (had wrong assumption before):

Update 1:

I'm not sure what hacks are applied to FF3/FF6.. but the hack is an attempt to prevent the overworld "glitching" while you are walking. Something in the FF6 (RPGOne translation) might be the cause of "revealing" this effect.. but it is clear that between versions 1.36 and 1.40 that something in the hack wasn't applying anymore...

It is clear that the Mode 7 bug needs to be fixed.. so that the overworld hack can be removed (it would be nice to mention what kind of hacks for each game were implemented - so you can see them in action)

Update 2:

I found it... the FF6 (RPGOne translation) causes your hack to fail in the 11/01/2003 WIP (aka post-1.36 and pre-1.40 version)

Code: Select all

11/01/03
Better memory init, another hack removed [Nach]
Source Cleanup and Compiler Fixes. [Nach]
Up libpng version checking [theoddone33]
Fix install target, -D should not be used. [theoddone33]
Begin porting ui.asm to C [pagefault]
Memory init code ported to C (thanks kode54) [Nach]
SPC RAM hopefully should now be initilized correctly (thanks Overload). [Nach]
Remove support for a hacked rom [pagefault]
Remove unneeded asm code [pagefault]
Removed many hacks [pagefault, Nach]
Compatibility update to PPU, passes one more electronics test (Thanks MKendora!) [pagefault]
Rollback of gfx code to fix nasty colour problems [pagefault]
I'm not going to guess which change or changes that caused the problem..
deathtok
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Post by deathtok »

This is a really good idea, the hackless version. With enough testing from the popular users here some of these hacks may be able to be eliminated. I'll let you know how my testing comes out.
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Post by Noxious Ninja »

I seem to remember Nach chnaging the hack so it only worked on original ROMs, or something like that.
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